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Avoid "Red Flags" in the First Round of the Draft.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ToddsPhins, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Here's an interesting article written by Dave Razzano, long time NFL scout who's been a part of 5 SB teams:
    http://blog.playmakermobile.com/blog/2011/04/avoid-red-flags-in-first-round-of-nfl-draft.html


    IMO this is another reason to stay away from Mallett who, coincidentally, Razzano said would not interest him any round. We need a player with zero concerns who can impact in 2011, not a developmental player under a coach who might not be here a year from now.
     
  2. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    To be fair, that is very hard to find. Look at the top guys in this years draft. They all have concerns.
     
  3. Skeet84

    Skeet84 New Member

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    Yeah and by the logic of avoiding red flags we should not have drafted Vontae Davis
     
  4. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I think those red flags of Vontae Davis were fabricated more than actually true. Thinking back on it, there was really no character concerns of Davis. He had that one thing with Zook when he got thrown out of practice but that was it. I fell for the BS pretty bad, gotta admit.

    The things that Razzano lists seem to be directly off scouting reports. Legitimate information.
     
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  5. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Good thing we're not picking in the top 5 right. :tongue2:


    .......and I won't be surprised one bit if Cam & Fairley end up busting.

    In 2003, Andre Johnson, Terrance Newman, Jordan Gross, Kevin Williams, Terrell Suggs, and Troy Polamalu turned out fine in the top 16 if teams would've chosen to heed the "avoid red flags philosophy".

    In 2007: I think Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas, Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis, Darrelle Revis, Lawrence Timmons would've been viable top 15 options without needing to take a red flag guy.

    You have an entire draft's worth of talented players and potential probowlers to pick from in the 1st round to where you don't have to risk a high pick on a red flag guy. To clarify, I don't always equate a player being immature as a red flag. For that, it's on a case by case basis.
     
  6. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    yup. Vontae doesnt belong on this list. He's a great kid.
     
  7. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I know what you're saying but its not always that easy. What if you were in their shoes on draft day.
     
  8. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    Can we get a link to the rest of the article?
     
  9. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    done. sorry, thought I linked it.
     
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  10. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    This just seems like poor taste. You can't call someone a draft bust because they passed away.
     
  11. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I don't think he is wrong. Gaines, when he was alive, did not live up to the billing.
     
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  12. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I understand your point, but that's where I would pinch myself as a reminder to not get sucked up with a player's measurables etc. I would have one predetermined philosophy and stick to it if I don't want to risk massacring a draft. If part of that is not taking guys early on with red flags, then I'd stick to that philosophy and run my draft as if the red flag player doesn't even exist. Personally, I'd rather have 8 first rounder who are still on the team contributing rather than 3 elite ones while the other 5 are delivering pizzas. I prefer consistency rather than unknowns and ups & downs...... but that's just me.
     
  13. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    That is true. But no one on that Tampa defense during those years was very good. I was interested to see what he could have done in Chicago with guys like Tommie Harris and Mark Anderson on the line with him.
     
  14. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I am with you but there are a lot of times where teams will override their draft board. I think they just wrote an article on NFP about that. It happens because you can't control what happens in front of you. Like I said, I agree with you, I share your thoughts but its not that easy sometimes.
     
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  15. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University
    Let's be honest...that guy hasnt even recorded a tackle in 2 years!


    ..Im leaving now.
     
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  16. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    They had some talent but he, alone, did not do his job. I know he got a lot of crap from Raheem Morris for his lack of work ethic and never expanding his pass rush repertoire. As for Anderson and Harris, I don't think they would have helped much. One reason is because this was Gaines Adams problem. Another reason is because Harris is not what he once was and wasn't what he once was at that time while Mark Anderson was let-go and was basically non-existent in Adams' brief time there.
     
  17. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Gotchya. Now I'm on the same page. I can't believe you're 19 and have such a mature mindset regarding this stuff. That's impressive Alen. Seriously.

    I didn't see that article, but I'll have to look it up. thanks.

    I completely agree about the difficulty of sticking to your philosophy. I think the temptation for the risky homerun is a part of human nature; if it weren't, Las Vegas would still be a desert. lol.

    I think the great teams over the years are the ones who can consistently withhold temptation and have enough confidence in their ability that they feel they can pass on mega-upside players (with concerns) and still have a successful draft. Conversely, I think teams like Cincinnati, who employ few scouts, feel more pressure to take these risks b/c they've had a recent history of not drafting well. "we suck at drafting, so we might as well go for the homerun". lol.
     
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  18. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    I could be wrong, but I swear Alen's profile has said he's 19 for like 4 years :lol:
     
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  19. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    This is why the smartest pick in the first for Miami is Gabe Carimi or Mike Pouncey.

    I think Carimi is the better prospect because he offers versatility as a tackle.

    Many of the other popular picks in the forum have these so-called red flags:

    Mark Ingram (knee), Ryan Mallett (character), Ponder (injury prone), Dalton (unaccustomed to a pro style offense)

    I think you start to overlook these things late in the first and I wouldn't pay much attention to them at all in later rounds. You are looking for starters with lottery type odds by then, you go for the highest upside.
     
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  20. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    completely agree. I'd take Pouncey b/c quality pulling LGs are tough to come by, but I wouldn't be screaming if Carimi were the pick.
     
  21. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I wouldnt take Mallett because of our fanbase. Its way too harsh on players and coaches. If you draft him and he didnt pan out the fanbase would call for Ireland and Sparano's head. It's better to go with a safe pick like Pouncey. Our fanbase isnt conducive to drafting players like Mallett who will be probably need some time to develop. If Mallett were to play poorly in preseason, our fanbase would call him a bust and if he played well they would be calling for Henne to be benched after one bad game and you would screw up your other QB.

    I dont mind Malllett as a pick. I think its 50/50 whether he ends up as the next Flacco or the next Leaf. If you have a fanbase that could deal with a bust I think he would be a worthwhile pick. We dont have that type of fanbase
     
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  22. PhinPhanatic

    PhinPhanatic New Member

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    I posted this on the Kirwin thread about Mallett, its an interview from pary way through the year:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFZpICtCE_w&NR=1
    After hearing this (he seems to NATURALLY be hunble yet confident with all the answers) and hearing CK on his interview I have come full circle on the QB situation. No doubt he has all the physical tools, but it seems he has the attitude correct to. Not to mention a red flag on a #13. Anyone know how Mallett scored on the Wonderlic Test?
     
  23. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    IMO Mallett's height should be a MAJOR red flag.
    How many 6'7 QBs do we see become successful in the NFL?

    After a certain point, height can become a liability because longer legs means a longer time to get set and squared-up to your target....... and a longer arm means more time needed to progress through your delivery from point A to point B. In a league where the action is faster rather than slower, this can become more pronounced and pose some serious problems, especially during a 16 game season where every week has ramifications.

    Sure, Mallett could probably light up weaker defenses when faced with little pressure and/or poor coverage, but I question his ability when it counts the most--- in big games when the pressure is on and defenses are bearing down on him.
     
  24. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I don't think he has the feet, enough quickness to his game, or accuracy on the move to be the next Flacco.
     
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  25. Mach

    Mach Cap Dude

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    Same as the amount of gingers I'd surmise.
     
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  26. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    exactly. lol.
     
  27. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    You're wrong because that doesn't even make sense.
     
  28. Makados10

    Makados10 Active Member

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    Can't say I take the article's author too seriously when his mock draft has the Dolphins picking a DE. :no:
     
  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    My son is very mature for his age.:knucks:
     
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  30. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    my main gripes with him are his feet and his consistency. I have seen him get into zones where he is damn accurate but then he loses it for a period of time for no reason. I'm not as worried about his personality. Flacco isnt the best comparison but out of the recent prospects he seems the closest to me. If I was going further back maybe Bledsoe
     
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  31. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Does he know that?..... the son part? lol. Huh, I had no idea Alen was mulatto. :whistling:


    (just to clarify- that's a crack on MC, not a racial remark)
     
  32. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    PS: He must've received that trait from mum! :lol:
     
  33. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'm with you on that. Do you think a "Bledsoe" is that much of an improvement over Henne to warrant a first rounder?
     
  34. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    This ain't England. This is America. We say mom, not mum. I imagine you hillbillies prefer the word 'ma' though. :lol:
     
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  35. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Alen is an impressive young man.
    I've told him before I'd be proud if he was my son, had a son like him, words to that effect. :)

    The mulatto comment went over my head. I look about as black as my avatar Col Kurtz :) One young woman in Thailand saw that pic when she was looking over my shoulder once as I was on the forum. She thought it was me in the pic. I thought, what a nice compliment for Marlon Brando, if he were alive to hear it. ;)
     
  36. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I've never really associated to any great extent with fan bases from other teams, but I really doubt if Dolphins fans are worse than most others. No fanbase likes a bust, and some fans are going to voice their complaints, no matter what team.
     
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  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I read somewhere that at the combine when they timed the QB's releases, his was 2nd fastest to I think TJ Yates. CKap had one of the slowest, if not the slowest. So that argument doesn't hold water.
     
  38. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He is actually 6'6 and 3/4s. Less than one inch difference between he and Flacco. That argument is moot too.
     
  39. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I don't have an issue with Mallett's height. I don't have an issue with his delivery either. What I do have an issue with him is his lack of mobility, his issues with pressures and his long stride. Some won't agree with me but that's the issues that I see with him. He reminds me of Flacco to an extent, except I feel that Flacco is a bit clumsier; he lacks coordination it seems like. Mallett's also got some Drew Bledsoe in him, who I was not a fan of. The main reasons I didn't like Bledsoe was that he was a statue and he went for the deep ball too much, which he paid for.
     
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  40. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    lmao.

    uhhh, I was kinda referring to the women you joke about liking. lol.

    Man, I can't believe you didn't get that. You completely ruined my joke. :lol:
     
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