When I watch Mallett play, I try to imagine that the Jets' defense is transposed into the game. Is his "questionable" decision making impaired when pressure is coming at him quicker, more often, and from all over? When he has less time to react to a play, how do his unathletic feet affect his accuracy? When the pressure is bearing down on him quicker than at Arkansas, how does his non Manning-like release affect his accuracy or margin for error? How accurate will he be on short, precision routes when coverage is tighter/windows are smaller AND more pressure is his face? If his line happens to break down, like we witnessed in Miami last season, how will he perform when not throwing behind a trustworthy pocket or on the run? Personally, I see a lot of potential problems here that make me not want to touch this kid AT ALL with a first rounder. Just my honest feeling. After all, in a conservative Sparano team with no legitimate vertical threat, how often will we be using his big arm to where it overshadows the other aspects of the game? Sparano likes to run and efficiently move the ball 10 yards at a time with as little margin of error as possible. I really don't see where Mallett fits into that type of philosophy.
How can anyone not LOVE this guy?!? Character questions? I dont see any. Obviously he is saying everything he is been told to, but he really come off as confident, down to earth, likable and certianly skilled. This interview must have been part way through the season as Mallett was in the Hiesman running, yet he still is confident yet down to earth. I am sold! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFZpICtCE_w&NR=1 Enjoy!
To me he seems like a guy who at some time might become a loose cannon or comes off hinge b/c I'm not sure how well he can control his emotions. He seems like the type of guy who might have a short temper or cracks easily. That doesn't mean he's not likable, but it does mean I'd question trusting him with a billion dollar franchise. I'll pass, no offense.
My problem with Henne that I have now come to accept is that he is not very accurate vertically. We can talk about how we don't have the vertical threat but he missed on several plays where Hartline had beaten his man deep. Henne is inaccurate downfield and seems afraid (or unable for whatever reason) to take shots down field consistently.
he wasn't afraid before he became a Dolphin. However, I'd be afraid to do so if Hartline were my vertical threat, too. just sayin.
Why? Hartline is an acceptable deep threat. He's not 4.35 fast, but that really doesn't matter. He's done a good job getting open down field. Henne just can't deliver the football to him.
No offense, but at the NFL level, a deep threat shouldn't have to be "acceptable". If you're using adjectives like "acceptable" to describe a deep threat, then he's not really a legit deep threat. lol. The deep game at the NFL level doesn't revolve around waiting to see if your guy has sneaked behind coverage and is running running open with a small window of opportunity b/c his lack of great speed allows faster defenders to close on the play. That's college stuff that teams rely on who dont possess enough talent at the position and have to make due with what they have. What the NFL vertical game revolves more around is getting the ball downfield to a player who either has the speed to separate from the DB when the ball is in the air...... or he has the physical ability & trustworthiness to make a play on the ball in tight coverage. Respectfully, Hartline possesses NEITHER of these traits, which are prerequisites to consistent, reliable vertical success. If Hartline had any legit speed, Henne doesn't have to wait till Brian is running behind coverage to throw the pass. Unfortunately that's not the case, and we know, for example, that Henne cant throw it to Brian if he and Haden are running stride for stride because we all saw how Haden outplayed him in that scenario. That's not how the vertical game works, and there's no trust factor involved when you can't throw it to your man downfield without knowing who's coming down with the pass. I wouldn't want to throw the deep ball often either if I were Chad. Now if Manningham is my receiver again, I have no problem throwing it to him 40 yards down field against a 4.5 corner in single coverage when I know Mario can pull away to FINISH the play. It's that simple. Henne made many of those types of throws in college when his receivers were actually legitimate vertical threats.
I disagree. He's acceptable as in, he gets open deep, plain and simple. You don't need 4.35 speed or physical ability to be a deep threat. What you need to be a deep threat is a player who can get behind a defense consistently, and has enough speed. That's Brian Hartline. He's been open deep plenty of times. Henne just hasn't delivered the ball. Hartline and Haden weren't stride for stride. Hartline had 5 yards on Haden. Henne just didn't deliver the ball far enough to Hartline. He threw it well behind Hartline, which gave Haden the opportunity to intercept the ball.
You just described Mike Wallace, NOT Brian Hartline. Please reread the previous post as to what qualifies for a true & reliable vertical threat. The QB HAS to know that he can throw the ball before the separation even happens and trust that his receiver WILL separate to make the play while the ball is in the air. That is NOT Brian Hartline. Fast forward to the 1:07 mark please. This is NOT what you want from your vertical receiver. This is the antithesis of what you want actually. [video=youtube;qJ-lxjhVNnc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ-lxjhVNnc[/video] and on the play you're referring to, Henne had a player in his grill that prevented him from being able to step into the throw to get it out there. That's why there are 2 aspects to making a completion, and on plays like this, it's the receivers job to identify the under throw early and abruptly plant his foot, come back to the ball, and attack it to at the very least break it up. Legitimate vertical threats do this; unreliable ones let the DB pick the pass. I don't have to say which one's Hartline here. lol.
Yes, I described Mike Wallace. I also described Brian Hartline. He gets open deep. Henne had the opportunity to step up. He didn't fully step up into the pocket, however. On the throw, there's nothing Brian Hartline did wrong. He got open. He blew past Haden. It's Henne's job to deliver the football and he failed to do so. Now, Hartline could have done a better job to break up the pass, but the ball was severely under thrown. There's not much you can do in his situation. As for the pass at the 1:07 mark, Hartline could have attacked the ball better, but the that pass was under thrown, as well. Also, Henne's only issue isn't the throwing of the deep ball, but the decision on whether or not to throw it. He's left plays out on the field because he didn't attack the defense vertically.
You want to see what a vertical threat looks like when there are Dolphins on the field, here you go: This guy is 5 inches shorter than Hartline but he still can make a play on the ball down field when coverage is tight. Go to the 0:57 mark. See how he attack it? See how Hartline doesn't? [video=youtube;0Aky_RNs9fo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Aky_RNs9fo[/video] Then proceed to the 0:49 mark on the next clip: Watch what the results look like when a receiver can actually alter his route on a vertical pass to make the play even though the DB is in better position. (When has Hartline done that?) 1:19 mark: notice the receiver going over the DB and attacking the ball to make the play and finish the catch? (When has Brian done that?) 1:32 mark: see how Campbell can afford to lead his receiver <without the use of trickery> even though the receiver is not yet open b/c the QB knows his guy can separate from coverage while the pass is in the air? (This does NOT happen if Hartline is the receiver) [video=youtube;Of0JndT2acg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of0JndT2acg&feature=fvwrel[/video]
Yes, those were very nice plays. Hartline does need to do a better job of attacking the football in the air. Sometimes, though, Henne doesn't give him the opportunity. The pass is either bad or he doesn't throw the ball. Btw, Hartline out performed Ford when he was a rookie. Also, Hartline has been deep multiple times this season. However, Henne did not deliver him the football well enough or at all. You can't pin that on Hartline.
you dont get it. Please stop referencing ONE PLAY. QBs miss passes ALL THE TIME. EVEN PEYTON MANNING. How about ALL the plays that didn't happen b/c Hartline is NOT a true vertical threat that can be trusted in that sense? Having Hartline as a vertical threat is like having the a typical power forward be your 3 point shooter. Sure he can make the shot occasionally when he's wide open, but that does NOT make him a 3 pt shooter, especially if there's a guy in his face. Do you realize that you're trying to treat the vertical game as if it's no different than a timing route that involves precise placement? Why the heck would he attack the defense vertically when our offense is a possession based one that's built around the run?
I'm using the examples you provided. I stated that throughout the season, there have been instances where he missed Hartline open down the field, whether he didn't want to throw the ball or didn't deliver it well enough. Not just Hartline, Marshall as well. You seem to think Hartline isn't a legit enough threat deep down field because he "lacks" speed, but I just don't agree. He's a threat down the field. He gets open. His hands are good and he's not afraid to go over the middle. He has the speed. The plays were there for him to make. Henne just didn't make them. He doesn't need to attack the defense vertically every play. However, when the opportunity presents itself, he should tale advantage, and I just didn't see that. He missed on plays down the field.
Why would he give him the opportunity when he can't finish the play? lol. hartline outperformed him huh? And how many games did Miami win because of big plays from Hartline? If you're saying Brian "outperformed" him because he had "more yards", then you honestly don't understand the overall impact each receiver had on his respective team. Hartline has never had a massive game. Ford had numerous ones. Get back to me on this after next season after Ford has a 1000 yard year with 8+ TDs. lol.
He can finish the play. Henne just can't deliver it. He has no down field accuracy. Yes, he out performed him. Jacoby Ford is a very nice player, though. I wouldn't be surprised if he does put up numbers like that.
If a receiver has to run a flea-flicker or require him to be wide open to throw him the ball, then he's not a vertical threat. This isn't flag football. A legit vertical threat allows his QB to lead him <without the need to be initially wide open> because he has the ability to separate while the ball is in the air to make the play. Nobody on this team allows this.
Hartline doesn't need a flea-flicker. That was just one play. He's been open many times. I don't see how Hartline isn't a viable option as a vertical threat, but to each his own, I guess.
If he "can" finish a play, then he would have by now. Finishing a play doesn't mean "waiting for the ball to drop perfectly in your lap without any need to break stride or veer off course". Do you see any highlight films out there (including college) with Hartline finishing plays down field? Attacking the ball downfield? Any of that? If every QB could deliver the ball perfectly, then there would be NO reason for a receiver to have to make a play on it. But that's NOT the case. By the way, good luck finding a QB who nails every vertical pass on the money. You're gonna leave a LOT of plays on the field with a receiver like Hartline as the downfield target.
What's your definition of finishing a play? Does he need to jump over the defender and catch the football? Catch it with one hand like Randy Moss? There is no QB out there that's perfect. However, there are QBs who can throw a much better deep ball than Henne. If Hartline had QBs with better down field accuracy, then Hartline would look like a much better player.
Hartline would be a nice "extra" vertical threat coming out of the slot if he were matched on a LB while we had a true vertical threat at flanker. You know another reason I know Hartline isn't a legit vertical threat? On the deep pass to Hartline on our first play of the Jets game, the safety turns his back to him even though he's attempting a flat out streak. That says a lot when a defense shows you little respect on vertical plays. The Jets & Browns put rookie CBs on him in single coverage. Just sayin.
Where they disrespecting Hartline or Henne? I'd go with Henne. No reason to fear Hartline beating you deep, which he did, when the QB can't deliver the ball.
Finishing the play is finishing the play. It means "turning it into a completion", especially if the receiver having to work for it. Any guy can catch a pass wide open. What matter is what the guy is capable of in coverage when some ability is involved. Ford is tiny in size compared to Hartline, yet he can make a play on a taller DB like we witnessed him do over Clemons.... and then again in the Chiefs' game. I've never seen Hartline win a jump ball like that. I've never seen him attack an off-target pass downfield to make the reception. I've never seen him pull away from a defender on a dead run to finish a play down field. It's difficult for a QB to make plays down field when he he's unable to lead his receiver or simply throw the ball up to him.
Hartline, because they've seen Henne beat them over the top with Ginn. Notice the CB who was covering Ginn? Revis. Notice the CB covering Hartline? the rookie.
He does need to finish plays like that more often, I agree. However, it would help his chances if Henne actually gave him the chance to finish a play.
I'll partially agree with this. Henne could help Hartline's chances to complete plays where he's wide open; however, Hartline doesn't help Henne when he's not.
That was one pass, and he beat Revis who was expecting help over the top. Henne hasn't shown the consistency of beating teams deep to gain respect. He misses too many throws.
When he can let her rip, he can make throws. see the following pass to Ginn. Hartline doesn't have the deep speed to allow a QB to effectively do this b/c the margin for error is small. If you throw the same 60 yard pass to Hartline, too much can go wrong while the ball is mid air (with a faster DB closing on the play being one of the many). People who have played QB would probably back this up. [video=youtube;ZJmNn5aHN0U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJmNn5aHN0U[/video] If you cut one loose to Ginn while Ted has a step on a DB, Ted will continue to separate from him. It's pretty simple-- the better deep speed you have, the easier it is to run down a pass, and the easier it is for his QB to lead him. 4.5 and 4.33 speed might not seem like much over 15 yards, but when you're 60 yards downfield it could mean the difference between an extra yard or two of tracking ability. A pass that's barely past the outstretched fingers of Hartline could be caught in stride by a guy with good long speed. Again, I'm not sure why you purposefully want to make things more difficult on the QB. I really don't understand it. Who's more important here?-- The QB...... or our 3rd best WR? This shouldn't be about "how can we get the ball to the non-playmaking Hartline; it should be about "how can we help Henne convert in the vertical game?". If you have a problem with Henne not connecting on the long ball, then get a receiver in here who can facilitate matters rather than forcing a higher degree of difficulty to a guy who's more of a possession receiver than he is a deep threat. Is it Henne's fault that his receiver doesn't have the ability to run down passes when other WRs around the league can?
Henne can make throws, just not consistently. Hartline does have the deep speed. He had the fastest 60 yard shuttle in his combine. He gets open deep. You keep referring to speed and physical ability, but it takes more than that. Hartline has shown he can get open deep. It's Henne who doesn't deliver it to him. No one to blame but Henne.
EXACTLY--- "shuttle". The last I checked, the deep pass isn't about excelling at constantly changing directions. His shuttle run makes him a better slot & intermediate receiver than a vertical threat. After you beat the jam (if it's not a free release) and/or make your move, it then becomes mostly all about speed and/or physical ability. I already gave you 1 video on rookie, Jacoby Ford, making plays downfield. If it wasn't speed and/or physical ability that finished the plays, then what was it? Speed and/or physical ability along with the ability to finish the play are THE most important aspects. I can provide clips from about 50 other receivers if you like. Mike Wallace, DeSean Jackson, Hakeem Nicks, Andre Johnson, Mike Williams, Calvin Johnson, Anthony Armstrong, Braylon Edwards, Santonio Holmes, Malcom Floyd, Vincent Jackson, Greg Jennings, Larry Fitz, Marques Colston, Robert Meachem, Brandon Lloyd, Dwayne Bowe, Lee Evans, Terrel Owens, Miles Austin, Pierre Garcon, Ochocinco, Mario Manningham, Dez Bryant, Jeremy Maclin, Roddy White, Johnny Knox, Devin Hester, Kenny Britt, Louis Murphy, Michael Crabtree, Ginn, Steve Johnson, Derrick Mason, Reggie Wayne, Santana Moss, etc....... .............do you think these guys rely on special technique to finish a play after they're half way into their route? It's not chess. lol. It's speed, physical ability, and a natural talent to make the play. Riddle me this--- if you're a QB and the ball is snapped, do you know for certain that the DB will bite on Hartline's move that "hopefully" frees him up to get open? My answers "no". Can you as the QB make that throw in great faith before you know Brian has gained separation? Again, my answer (as someone who's played QB, even though it was in highschool) is "no". If Brian is running stride for stride with a CB, can you make the throw with the confidence that Hart will separate from the DB while the pass is mid air to make the play? This is another "no" for me. Is there a QB in the league who has pinpoint accuracy on deep balls to where he knows he's NEVER missing a pass? If your answer is "no", then can you trust that, if your pass "is" offline, Brian will make a play on it so that it doesn't become a game-changing mistake? I'm sorry, but my firm belief is one more "no".
Occasionally getting open deep from trick plays and double moves is no the same thing as being a legitimate deep threat. Like I said, a power forward can hit the occasional wide open 3 pointer, but that doesn't mean he's a 3 point threat. This is the NFL; half the league should be able to get open deep from time to time, but that doesn't all of a sudden make them James Lofton or Michael Irvin. There are only a few QBs in the NFL who could mask Hartline's ineffectiveness as a vertical receiver, and the last I was aware, our chances of bringing in a HOF QB like Manning are slim to none....... with the emphasis on none. Hartline needs to be paired with a guy like Pennington for him to be effective downfield since Penny relies more on precision and timing since he doesn't have the arm to let it loose. Does that make sense? Hartline is about route running and sneaking by a defender through fakes and double moves etc. That's perfect for Pennington b/c Penny doesn't have the arm strength to truly lead a speed receiver downfield. Conversely, a strong armed QB like Henne needs a guy with great speed or physical playmaking ability who best allows Chad to use his natural ability. Honestly, what's the point of having a guy with a cannon if you don't allow him to really let it rip? Why would you want to force Henne to be a Pennington type passer when his arm is more geared toward letting her fly?
uhhh...... just trying to explain what will happen to Ryan Mallett in this offense without a vertical threat.
That's the point dingie. Unless you live in Key West....... then you might find it "challenging". lol.
Re: Hartline - He's not a burner but he plays with really excellent pad level which is why he plays faster than his time. He's not a home run guy but I think he's a pretty good deep threat and has always been one.
