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Dare I? NY Knicks back in the playoffs thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Fin-Omenal, Dec 4, 2010.

  1. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Luckily for me I dislike the Heat year round... :)

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  2. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Why is Dwight Howard NEVER in peoples top 3 best players in the NBA?

    He dominates in the paint, rebounds, and imo is the best defensive player in the league aswell.

    Still doesnt
    get enough credit imo.
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  3. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    I have been watching the Knicks and Nuggets and here is what I see. The Knicks don't have a true point guard. Chauncey Billups just is not the right guy, and I think he is more of a 2 Guard. The Knicks don't have any size anymore, and the "big" guys they do have don't play much defense. I think they can build around Amare and Melo but they need 2 or 3 more solid pieces, and I just don't know if they will ever fit together that well. D'Antoni is D'Antoni.....pretty good regular season coach but what has he ever won in the playoffs? He wasted all that talent for years in Phoenix. I think the Nuggets actually are better and could be a team that could go far in the playoffs as they five backups as good as their five starters. You also have guys like Anderson and Nene playing defense....even KMart appears to show some interest in playing D. I heard Isiah is still consulting with Dolan....it's like a guy who divorces his wife, but she still tells him what to do....unless the Knicks can bring in CP3, and some size, they are not any better than they were before.
     
  4. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    The guy has 5,897 DPOY's and is 1st team ALL NBA 568 years running. he gets ENOUGH credit.
     
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  5. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    There isn't 2 players in this league I would take over him. Keep your Kobes and LeBrons, ill take Dwight.

    Also the sooner D'Antonio is axed the better, I'm officially onboard.

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  6. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Knicks dont have a true PG for this system. The D'Antoni offense is predicated on quick decision making and knowing where the ball is going before you get it and Felton was better able to execute that from what I have seen.

    The Knicks had no size before the deal. They were among the worst rebounding teams anyway. Turiaf is their best defensive big and hes hurt or in foul trouble every game. Ideally he should be a reserve. They are in dire need of size now that their depth has been depleted. It wont happen til the offseason though.

    Denver IS the better team right now. They are very deep. Gallinari, in my opinion could emerge as a 20PPG player given the shots and minutes to do so. He made a play last night vs the Spurs where he tried to dunk over 4 spurs in transition and nearly got it. He plays fearless, he just has to do it more consistently. The Knicks made the move because its easier to find a supporting cast then it is to find a superstar. The NBA is a star driven league. Denver has the depth to acquire a star should he want to join Gallo and Nene and Lawson. They have pieces they can offer and they are set up nicely to transition back to a contender if they Kreonke's allow the payroll to go back in the process of selling the team. Melo, on the other hand, will have to adjust to not having to do it himself many nights and he will have to trust his teammates more now that he has Amar'e and possibly more help coming.

    Isiah supposedly has not been consulting with Dolan. As Donnie said "doesnt he have the NCAA tournament to prepare for?" Whoops. With that horrible record I guess not.

    I think the thing that was lost on many people was that point you make on the Knicks lack of size and that is a necessity to win. My problem with D'Antoni, besides the lack of emphasis on D is this, even if he had a good defensive big man would he adapt his coaching style? Coach D has this year and 2 more on his contract. My guess is if he doesnt perform in the playoffs this year and next he is gone, rightly or wrongly. My guess is that by 2012 you will hear Patrick Ewing's name as a possible replacement (he wants to be a HC and could bring Dwight if Orlando continuously falters in playoffs...Knicks have significant cap room in 2012) or Doc Rivers name mentioned. Rivers was going to leave last year and I am guessing he leaves this year. I am also guessing his son may only stay 1-2 years at Duke. Rivers has Knick ties and would help fix the Knicks biggest problem...defense.
     
  7. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    You can do much better than Doc Rivers. Dude is so overrated imo. Patrick Ewing would be an interesting choice, no doubt. As for Dwight Howard, if you're interested in not affording any players worth a damn except for 3 players, like the Heat, go for it. All this 3 superstar stuff is nonsense, and won't work, unless you're only interested in regular season success.
     
  8. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    Because we all know the 76ers are the model which all NBA teams strive to emulate.
     
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  9. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    WTF are you talking about? Aren't you a Celtics fan? WTF do you think your team did?

    Check the Payrolls buddy. Pending the next CBA, the Heat is positioned to ADD players via the MLE, etc...


    Very simple.

    Check the Lakers payroll. They HAVE MORE committed in salary 2 years from now than the Heat has committed today. Is it likely that the NBA will "force" the Lakers to dismantle their roster? Not likely.

    SO therefore, the threshold will have to meet the Lakers number.

    That Threshold? About 30 million more than the Heat has committed.

    based on a HARD CAP...the Heat would become one of the teams with the MOST salary cap space.


    Yes...we have Pat Riley and you don't. I know...it sucks.
     
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  10. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    he certainly makes it easier. A big is always more valuable than any other player. IMO, Dwight Howard is the most valuable player in the league.

    But make no mistake, his impact on a NBA game can be neutralized. He is NOT SHAQ.
     
  11. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Want a sure fire way to destroy your NBA team? keep adding a bunch of 5 million dollar a year players at long term contracts.
     
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  12. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Eh I happen to like Rivers. Once he got players, he got results and given that its a player driven league thats not surprising. Remember when the Celtics were gonna fire him? Seems like a distant memory. I tend to believe the Knicks have a chance to sign him in 2012. They have 16M or so in cap space then and Toney Douglas and Landry Fields still on rookie contracts. Just gotta find a bench at that point but that shouldnt be a problem since Mike D'Antoni only plays 7-8 guys anyway lol.

    As far as the 3 superstar stuff, its a star driven league. It can be done with only two but I think three is a better guarantee for sustained success.

    Could not agree more. Mediocrity and depth have their place but the playoffs is not one of those places.

    Pretty sure hes a 76ers fan. I remember arguing with him about the Evan Turner selection last draft. I hated it then and hate it even more now. I hope I am wrong for R&R's sake.

    Next CBA will be interesting for sure. I want to see what changes if anything. Because if nothing changes James Dolan is going to look like an idiot for pushing Walsh to make the Carmelo deal now when he could have just waited Melo out. Dolan is either going to have egg on his face and have a final straw from Knick fans or he will come ok if all the rumored changes happen.
     
  13. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    No, I'm not a Celtics fan. And no, that's not what the Celtics did. The Celtics have actually had a team around their "big 3", if you really want to call it that since neither of those 3 have been superstars for at least 3-4 years now. Rondo, Perkins, good bench, especially when they won the championship. Like I said, they had a TEAM and they play team basketball. The Heat have 3 players and a bunch of god awful players, one who they gave a 5 year, 30 million dollar deal to, who they couldn't trade at the deadline. They don't play team basketball at all. Like Phil Jackson put it, it's Xbox basketball. A lot of isolation basketball, which doesn't work. Oh, and they have a terrible head coach.

    Next season, the Heat have 63.5 million in contracts, not counting Ilgauskas and House. About 61.3 million of that is going to be around for awhile. And these salaries are going to keep going up and up for all 6 players signed until at least the 2013-2014 season. If there's a 2011-2012 season, the salary cap will more than likely be under 65 million. So keep believing the Heat will have room to add more players. They won't, aside from the MLE. The Heat are going to be stuck with 3 players and a laughable supporting cast for a good while.

    Keep waving your pom poms around if you must. Watch and see for yourself when the Heat have 0 rings 5 years from now.
     
  14. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    You don't know what the hell you are talking about. You sound ridiculously uninformed as well. Those 4 guys haven't been stars for 3-4 years now? They all made the all-star team this year. On the Heat, Have you even watched this team or are you just waving your hate towel like a poor man's cornbread maxwell? Just FYI, they DID NOT try to trade Miller at the deadline. That was just media speculative BS.

    "Heat don't play team ball".

    Yeah..they are just the only team in the league in the top 5 in Off. Eff, Def. Eff, and Rebounding.

    "O rings 5 years from now"!

    LOL. Of course, you won;t bet on that. Because when you are talking out of your ***, the wallet usually won;t back it up.

    But the hater must always be as mean spirited and vitriolic as possible to make himself feel better.

    JUST SAD.
     
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  15. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Have you noticed that the Heat Hater ALWAYS accompanies criticism of the Heat with insults and vitriolic pronouncements? Now the supporting cast is "God Awful". lol

    It's comedy already.
     
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  16. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Seems that way with all the Knicks haters also.....LOL
     
  17. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    The Knicks will be fine. Yeah, they are having issues now, but it will sort out..they are not contenders this year anyway..so who cares?

    But I think that I wasn't jumping the gun when I said that they need to can D'Antoni. I am now convinced of it.
     
  18. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    HOLY ****!

    Anthony Randolph is losing his mind versus the Mavs tonight! He has 31 and 10 through 3 quarters and is beasting on that front line for Dallas. WOW!

    I was on the bandwagon, then felt stupid for doing that...NOW...BACK ON BABY!

    AR is GOIN' HAM.
     
  19. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Actually aside from Douglas, Turiaf and Fields our supporting cast IS God Awful. Luckily none of these guys have contracts for 2011-12. Work in progress still. But the bright side is we have a 1st round pick this year whether its ours or Houstons (from the Tmac swap, Houston has the right to swap) and I have identified the guy I think we will pick. Mark Warkentian has been pretty good at identifying international talents over the years and I found his next "Nene" in the form of Jonas Valanciunas. Not quite as physical but a solid pick at 16 where we are slated to pick as of today. Im guessing we will buy another 1st round pick for 3M as well as I am sure someone near the back end of round one will want out of the round and the guaranteed contract. There's always someone who does. Up to Walsh to find our next Toney Douglas at that point..Rick Jackson and Jeremy Tyler should guys we look at if we do something along those lines. We need size and toughness and all three kids I mentioned have it especially Jackson.

    I think the way we have things set up is especially interesting given that a hard cap is likely. We have exactly 2 guaranteed contracts for next year...Melo and Amar'e. Option years on Douglas and Billups. Fields, Jerome Jordan (in Europe now), and Rautins will also have minimum contracts. It will be interesting how things shake out going forward.
     
  20. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    A) Can D'Antoni.
    B) Sign defensive minded shot blocking center that doesn't want to score to play with Amare.
    C) Dump Billups for expirings or a bench piece.
    D) Launch operation Chris Paul..(looks rough...but if not....) Add a distributor point guard, and load the bench with defensive specialists that shoot the three.

    Contenders.

    These are the coaches I would hire:

    Kelvin Sampson (Milwaukee)
    Patrick Ewing (Orlando)
    David Fizdale (Miami)
    Jeff Van Gundy (Mars)
     
  21. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A) Agree
    B) Agree..kind of. I really dont want to give a long term contract to Sammy Dalembert at age 31 given his inconsistent track record and Marc Gasol I am pretty sure Memphis will match whatever to keep. That leaves one option and I know its a very longshot but its the best shot. The backup plan should be Paul/Okafor.
    C) Billups is an expiring. The NYK have until I believe its April 20th to pick up his option for 16M next year. Im inclined to pick up the option and see if it can be traded or flipped for something more useful. Worst case hes an expiring again next year and we keep his bird rights I believe if bird rights still exist on next CBA. As it is I love Toney D at the PG spot going forward.
    D) See B
    E)Ewing and JVG..united again. Ewing as HC and JVG as his assistant since Dolan would NEVER have JVG back as HC imo.
     
  22. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    I've seen Dalembert's name thrown around so much by Knicks and Heat fans. Believe me, stay the hell away.
     
  23. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Dalembert is a world class dumbass...but if he is asked to do very simple things like rebound and challenge shots...he can do that.

    I wouldn't give him 5 years though, that could be a disaster.
     
  24. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    That's the problem, you can't get Dalembert to just do what's asked of him. If he touches the ball, you better believe he's going to either try a post move and turn the ball over, or shoot a fade away mid range jumper. Not to mention, his complete lack of any basketball IQ allows him to give up an easy bucket for every shot he does block or contest. I couldn't wait to see how him out of Philadelphia.
     
  25. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    He can't possibly be worse offensively than the great Eric Dampier is
     
  26. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    Compared to old, washed up Dampier, anybody is an improvement really. Dalemberts only offense is dunks and lobs from under the rim. The problem is, he has the worst basketball IQ of anybody in the league, and he actually thinks he has a post game and good mid range game. He doesn't. At all. Hell, he wanted to be traded from the Sixers because we were smart enough to limit his touches. I've never been so frustated in my life than when he was on the Sixers.
     
  27. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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    Why the hell would you want Ewing as HC of all people? What on planet Earth makes you think he would be a good coach?

    The guy has been an assistant in Orlando for all of Dwight's 7 years. In those 7 years Howard was a little more than average on the offensive side of the ball. Hakeem Olajuwon spent 3 days with Howard over the summer and all of a sudden Dwight is a legitimate MVP contender. Ewing as HC? No thanks.

    If I were a Knicks fan I'd PRAY that Doc Rivers leaves Boston and heads to the big apple.
     
  28. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    So how about them Sixers?
     
  29. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    What about them? You're not going to beat the Heat with Spencer Hawes playing Center. He blows. Our only option is to try to get physical in the paint. Obviously, when playing the Heat, that's not allowed, as simply breathing on one of the big 3 is a potential flagrant.
     
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  30. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    The truth is that the Heat should shoot MORE free throws per game.

    If these games were officiated right down the middle, the Heat would have at least 5 more wins by now. They just attack ALL GAME. Refs tend to blow their whistles when a guy goes to the rim over and over and over and over. Unless you play the Bulls or the Celtics in Boston.

    Superstars get calls. THE HORROR.
     
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  31. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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  32. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Alright stay on topic here fellas. I know the Knicks are playing like poop right now but seriously not even sixers fans care about the 76ers.
     
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  33. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    I am trying NOT to say anything about the Knicks.

    The Fake Pat Riley is taking care of it for me.

    http://twitter.com/#!/FakePatRiley
     
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  34. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    They get all the calls, you're right. And it's a complete and utter joke. Driving recklessly to the rim and bowling into defenders isn't a defensive foul. Slight contact in the paint isn't a foul. Maybe if they got called for all the offensive fouls they commit, it wouldn't be such a complete joke. But that's the NBA for you.
     
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  35. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Just taking advantage of the rules as they are interpreted.

    if they called illegal screens on the Celtics...they would be a 8th seed because Garnett would foul out of every game in the 1st quarter.

    In the end...there are stats for this, and those stats suggest that the Heat is not very good at "getting the calls". They are averaging one measily foul call more than their opponents per game......AT HOME. Their foul differential is 8th in the league. So 7 other teams "get more calls" than them.
     
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  36. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    I wasn't specifically talking about the Heat. I was talking about the overall officiating in general. All the time I see superstars just drive recklessly to the paint, and draw a foul with either the littlest contact, or committing an offensive foul that's called a defensive foul. Then, I see lesser known players doing the exact same thing, and it's an offensive foul, or a great play by the defender. Hell, I've seen non-superstars getting absolutely laid out, no foul. That's a joke. If you call something for one player, you have to call it for all players. Just my opinion of course, but I believe most people feel that way.
     
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  37. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    RealGM has to be the worst forum out there, by far. And I do agree that thread is ridiculous. We have no shot if we play the Heat in the 1st round. We can beat the Bulls and Celtics, and I believe our series against them in the regular season proves that. But our bigs are just too bad defensively to stop a LeBron-Wade layup line. Like I said, only way for us to stop it is to get physical, and that's not allowed in todays pussified NBA.
     
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  38. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    easily
     
  39. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    ...Look like it will take longer than 11 years.
     
  40. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I can wait as long as they do it right. No one under contract after the 11-12 season except for Melo, Amar'e, Jerome Jordan and this years 1st (whether its the Knicks or Houstons they will have a 1st). Douglas at that point will have a 4th year option while Fields, and Rautins will be RFA's if things stay as they are.
     

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