Dolphins target Carson Palmer...Says Armando's sources...

I want nothing to do with Palmer unless he can be had without giving up draft picks. And from the sounds of it, the Bengals aren't going to just cut him. I'm all for signing a free agent vet, but I'm not about spending draft resources on a stopgap measure. And if we have to give up draft picks, that kind of shoots holes in the theories that we can draft a lot of guys to put around him. We're already missing our 2nd round pick. If we had to trade further picks for Carson, what kind of developmental QB are you going to be able to land in the draft? One that will probably not be the answer at QB.

 

I will confess that drafting Mallett is no sure thing. The same can be said about drafting any quarterback in the class (or otherwise).

That said, if quarterback is our weakest link as so many (including myself) have attested to, Carson will prove it.

There will be no waiting; we know what he is. We know what he's capable of.

We'll win or we won't and we'll go from there.

I wasn't this "for it" a couple of months ago and I gave Padre a real hard time with it. I'm not sure what has gotten me to this revelation. Maybe it's having been up since 4.

 

I'd rather have Carson Palmer than draft a QB high in this draft. Trade for Palmer, then draft someone like Greg McElroy (or Ben Chappell late) and let him learn.

 

I guess it's fair to say that Palmer is the best option available for next season, in terms of grabbing a QB that can win us the most games in the short term. That may be all Sparano cares about because if we go 7-9 again, especially because of lame duck offense, his goose is cooked.

Not sure it's what is best for the franchise though. Especially if we give up draft picks for him.

 

I would rather trade for Kevin Kolb. He is younger, has a brighter future, and I believe he can still be a very good starter.

 

5th Rounder gets it done on draft day?

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They don't have any leverage, but that sounds mighty generous. If they'd be up for it, I would.

I wonder how things are between he and Ocho.........

 

More IMO. Its going to be higher I would imagine.

 

Chipper?

 

I think the fact that we are going for an older QB is indicative that they like someone in the draft that they feel they can get either in the first or even the 3rd and groom him (Kapernick, Ponder ?) while Carson finishes his career.

I really don't think Ireland and Sparano are they type to win now to save their careers. I really do believe they will continue to do what is best for the organization as opposed to their career. This is unsubstantiated, but both seem too genuine to me.

If they draft a QB this year, then what? They have Henne throwing 19+ picks a season, QB controversy, etc. Can't do it. Can't throw away a whole season to groom a draftee QB. I agree with bringing in a veteran to hold us down until then.

The only question is, at what cost?

 

With Palmer set on leaving Cinci, the chances of us getting a first round talent QB slide. Bengals, Vikes, Bills, etc., all need a QB. If we can get Palmer at a low price, and get Julio Jones (you knew this was coming), I'd be happy.

 

A lot more. I could see the Bengals wanting something along the lines of a swap of #15 for #35. I'm sure that would drive some on here mad, but I'm not necessarily opposed to it. At #35, we'd still have a lot of options available to help this team.

 

Well I haven't done as much homework on this option as the Miami Dolphins, I can guarantee that much, but I probably have done as much or more homework as on the veteran QB options as anyone else out there, and this is why I've been pushing Carson Palmer as one of the most ideal possibilities the Dolphins could take advantage of, since well before the 2010 season even ended.

The fact of the matter is I watched Carson Palmer's throws, a LOT of them, including every single interception through the second Browns game, and I also watched probably 50 to 75% of Kevin Kolb's throws this season.

It wasn't even close. Not. Even. Close.

Carson Palmer still clearly has the talent. He throws aggressively at distances, he anticipates and throws the ball into the holes between tight zones, which is something that Chad Henne has always seemed unwilling to do. He's got a good arm. He has good accuracy. He threw a lot of interceptions trying to hit Terrell Owens, well guess what Owens only arrived JUST before the season started so naturally there was a lot of victimization from not being on the same page. I saw Owens fail to finish his routes. I saw him make the wrong adjustments. I saw him take plays off. I saw those things happen, he can't take them back or pretend they didn't.

Just because the guy has a few "WTF?" moments, doesn't mean he's not a good quarterback. Drew Brees has a bunch of those as well. Palmer is aggressive and he reads the field. He's playing chess while Henne is playing checkers.

I think Brian Daboll knows what it's like defending against Carson Palmer. He faced him 4 times and I believe Palmer won 3 of those matchups, had good stats against them.

Palmer threw to a bad combination of skill positions in Cincinnati. He had good communication with Chad OchoCinco, but the fact of the matter is, Chad's lost a little bit on his game. He has. It's tough to admit but he's not quite the same guy. Meanwhile, Terrell Owens still has a lot of talent but he decides when and how he's going to use it, taking plays off, not finishing routes, running the wrong adjustments, not being on the same page because he only just got there right before camp started. Then you have two rookies in Jordan Shipley and Jermaine Gresham, making rookie mistakes. I certainly don't have a high opinion of TE Reggie Kelly, I think Anthony Fasano blows him out of the water and yes that is saying something. Jerome Simpson plays without a brain in his head, which is medically remarkable.

I think Palmer would love to throw to Miami's receivers and show Chad Henne just how good he had it. Even though Shipley was a rookie, Palmer liked him a lot. And if he liked Shipley, he'll love Davone Bess. Once upon a time Houshmandzadeh was super productive playing for the Bengals out of the slot. That's the type of player Bess would be for him. And as for Brian Hartline, I've been comparing him with Housh but maybe I should compare him with Chris "Slim" Henry. Hartline is 6'2" and 195 lbs, runs between a 4.49 (pro day) and 4.52 (combine). Henry is 6'4" and ran between a 4.45 (pro day) and a 4.50 (combine). Anthony Fasano is a far more QB friendly receiving tight end than Reggie Kelly, and we may be able to complement him through the Draft.

I think that our offensive line protects a lot better than Cincinnati's, when Jake Long is healthy.

Miami is a place where Carson Palmer could absolutely flourish and make everyone remember that once upon a time he was a #1 overall and he played like it in Cincinnati.

The imperative, if you acquire a Carson Palmer though, is you need to fix the ground game. The combination of Palmer to Marshall will scare defenses and have them playing us much the same as they did Henne in 2010, and Palmer will do better with that than Henne did for sure, but there's severe upside if you have the ability to take advantage of it by running the ball and creating big plays. Palmer has always been a guy that is deadly when his team is able to run the ball.

 

I worry about his elbow

 

Armando annoys the hell out of me. First, it seems like he does nothing but talk about QBs, even though we have other needs. I don't follow him much, but I have read quite a few articles from him and in every article, he is *****ing about the QB position and neglecting everything else that is important.

Second, he's a moron...along with most other Dolphins writers.

Back to the topic:

Why get Carson Palmer? Is he supposed to be our franchise QB or a stop gap? I can assure you, he won't be our franchise QB, being 32 this season. Also, how is he supposed to be successful in Miami, with lesser talent on offense than Cincy? At least Cincy has a running game and a young, solid receiving TE. And since everyone says he struggled because of the characters he had to deal with at WR this season (ie. Ocho and TO)...how is he supposed to deal with Brandon Marshall?

I'm so amazed at how desperate Dolphins fans and writers have gotten. He hasn't been significant since 2007. In all honesty, I like the guy...but I don't see how he can possibly fit here and be successful.

 

$11 Million dollar stop gap.

The guy seems like a pain in the ***. I'd be annoyed too if I was Cincy. Palmer hurt his elbow a few years ago and did everything not to have surgery on it. After all that it still doesn't seem like it's ever healed right.

That's a fugazi.

 

The reason people want him is because he is better than what we have. If he can give us 4-5 seasons with a QBR near 90, then that would be great for the organization. If you end up drafting a QB that turns out to be better than him, then thats even better.

And I don't agree that Cincinnati has more talent than us. They had TO, who is still a good WR IMO. Cedric Benson is good. Chad Johnson isn't very good anymore, and probably should have seen less snaps than he did. That offensive line was not nearly as good as ours in pass pro.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-5qxKpCUQk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH4bjgBz5Rk

Those are two highlight videos of Chris Henry. If you put together a highlight video of Ted Ginn or Brandon Marshall, or Davone Bess or Brian Hartline, do you think Chad Henne would look HALF as good in that highlight video?

Don't answer that. I know the answer already.

The only amazing thing to me is that some people insist that a guy that threw for more yards and touchdowns last year than we've seen since 1994, is totally overrated and over the hill.

As for the surrounding cast, Miami has a better surrounding cast than Cincinnati. When T.J. Houshmandzadeh left the Bengals, everyone saw that Carson Palmer and the offense made him. Davone Bess is a better slot player than Houshmandzadeh was in Cincinnati. Brandon Marshall is as good as Chad OchoCinco ever was, and is currently much better than Chad was last year. Brian Hartline is like a Chris Henry. Smarter, about 0.05 seconds slower, not quite as tall, but overall more consistently productive than any #3 WR that Palmer has ever had in Cincinnati. And Anthony Fasano is a hell of a lot better receiving target than Reggie Kelly.

A lot of people keep mistakenly lumping Chad OchoCinco in with Terrell Owens. Owens was a problem. OchoCinco was not. Palmer only threw 3 interceptions trying to go to OchoCinco which is even below normal. They have chemistry together, always have, but OchoCinco is just losing it. He's getting old. Brandon Marshall is younger. He's better. Owens was the issue, because he only just signed on right before the season started and therefore had bad chemistry with Palmer, who threw 10 interceptions trying to hit him up.

Carson Palmer's issues in 2010 were due to the following:

1. Bad chemistry with Terrell Owens
2. Lack of ground game
3. Rookies at other WR and TE positions making rookie mistakes
4. An offensive system that grew stagnant (notice OC Bratkowski was fired right after the Senior Bowl)

Those that actually study the tape, which I don't think many people do, know that Carson Palmer is still very good, and a sight better than Chad Henne.

 

Not to mention he's 31 years old with a shot elbow.

 

*Just a Rumor*

Take this for what it's worth (I'd recommend a few grains of salt) but I heard a rumor from a former Bengals player - not Anthony Munoz whom I worked for - but one that is still around the Bengals in a sizeable capacity regarding Palmer's demanding for a trade. Again, just a rumor, so don't shoot the messenger, but here's what I heard:

With 5 games to go last year, Palmer's wife, a California native, packed her things, took the kids, and moved back to California (I'd assume near San Francisco where she's from, but didn't get clarification on this point) and said that if Carson played for the Bengals next year, meaning 2011, he'd be living out here alone. Apparently Mrs. Palmer would like to return to the west coast. End of rumor.

Now, that says nothing about a possible trade to another team or anything like that, but presumably this is why his house was put up for sale (and it sold a few weeks ago) and is basically demanding a trade or he's going to retire. Knowing Mike Brown, he's probably going to force Palmer to retire to stick it to him unless he gets a sweet, sweet deal come draft time, or whenever the CBA is cleared up. But, based upon what I heard from the ex-Bengal player, any trade possibility might have to fit the bill for Mrs. Palmer, more so than Carson himself. Does that preclude Miami since it's not on the West Coast? Your guess is as good as mine, but I think Miami has to explore this possibility.

Again, please take this for what it's worth, this is just what I heard, but I'd like to think that who I heard it from is more in the know about it than pretty much any report you're going to see on ESPN or read in the local Cincinnati Papers.

 

Ive heard that as well which may mean its The Niners,Raiders or nothing for Carson which makes the Dolphins interest and this thread moot.

 

Ugh so you're saying he has a groin injury too.

 

Care to find some examples of throws where he showed that his elbow was shot?

 

LOL. Reminds me of the b!tch wife in Any Given Sunday - Lauren Holly. I can see Carson Palmer referred to as Castrated Palmer within his inner circle of friends.

It happens to the best of us guys though. Better to move to CA and retire than give up half.

 

According to Barry Jackson, this is the Dolphins' concern as well. And it's been mine, since December...BEFORE he made it known that he was demanding a trade out of Cincinnati.

 

I don't see an issue with letting your wife have some say in where you raise your kids. They've got plenty of money. Someone said something along the lines of Carson being good with investments and his net worth being tracked at over $80 million. At some point, sacrificing a LITTLE future income by throwing your weight around and demanding a trade, has got to be a consideration...probably somewhere right about when your kids witness your lawn having been vandalized by angry Cincinnati fans because your husband threw a leather ball to one guy when he was supposed to throw it to another, during a sporting event.

I don't think these suggestions of the guy being "castrated" or of his wife being some epitome of a b!tch are called for, at all.

 

Not that bored, thanks.

You know as well as I do that he had a lot of issues with it and by all accounts it hasn't been the same as it was before.

Idk how you can completely gloss over that fact when evaluating potential problems with him.

 

Any woman that just picks up the kids and moves to her home state and gives the man responsible for "their" and I use that term loosely, $80M net worth an ultimatum regarding his career should raise a few flags. She may not be a b!tch, but her actions portray one more so than a loving supporting wife. Really, who does that?

And if he obliges, than he is hand pecked, whipped, whatever. If his wife hadn't moved the kids across the country he probably wouldn't retire. He is way too young for that. She forced his hand. Castrated was a poor attempt at a joke on my end maybe, but IMO it isn't without some justification to consider that there may be symbolic truth behind it.

 

I don't think coming to Miami is going to be a deal breaker. California might be his preference, but that doesn't mean he wont accept anything else.

 

Letting your wife have some say in where you raise your kids and her taking the kids and packing up all your **** to threaten you are two completely different things.

If she did the latter, then yea that's a complete ***** move.

 

lol Very loosely.

 

Eh, that all depends. If Carson also wants to play or retire to the west coast fair enough. But if his wife is trying to tell him if and where he can play when his arm is paying the bills, then yes, she's a *****, and Carson has no sac. IMHO.

 

That's a very big IF. We are essentially hoping a 32 year old QB can come in and produce 4 to 5 good seasons with a lack of talent around him, and not to mention this 32 year old QB is coming off of multiple injuries in recent seasons. I like our odds with Henne much more.

Well, I think it's safe to say that their running game and WR corps were hands down better than ours. TE is a toss up, but I'd take Gresham any day over Fasano. OL, idk...because we had so many injuries. But, let's be real about Carson's targets compared to Chad's.

Owens, Ochocinco, Shipley, Caldwell, Cosby, and Gresham > Marshall, Bess, Hartline, Wallace, Moore, and Fasano.

As a group of targets at the WR and TE position, Cincy clearly had more talent.

And come on...why do people say Ocho isn't very good anymore? He still puts up solid stats. He missed 2 games last year and still finished with almost 70 catches and 1000 yards as a number 2 receiver. He has a 53% catch rate, which isn't great, but it competes with guys like Dwayne Bowe, Brandon Lloyd, Calvin Johnson, Mike Sims-Walker, TO, Mike Williams- TB, and Santonio Holmes. (all of which are between 52% and 58%)