I think Henne is not the future franchise QB however if we decide to go on the cheap with QB's this year due to the necessity of filling so many holes on the offense I believe he gets a second shot @ redeeming/re-inventing himself Competition is the Elixir of Success! regardless what happens, I see no SuperBowl in 2011
The eyeball test..... That may be one of the most entertaining "breakdowns" I've ever seen on these boards.
I completely agree with this. As we've talked about in depth, I don't believe he's been coached and developed effectively and working within Hennings offense only hampered him more. I believe in bringing in competition and a young QB but not at a 1st round draft pick price. I'm not enamored with any that will be available at our pick and I'd prefer we trade back quite honestly and reacquire our lost 2nd round pick. Ireland has mentioned wanting to do just that so I'm hoping a player makes it to our pick that will intrigue another team to make the jump up. If we could pull that move off we can get 2 other position players and a possible QB in rounds 2 or 3 to hedge the bet on Henne. We've still got too many holes.
You Henne lovers seem to forget how freakin' HORRIBLE he was last season, and the season before that... Good grief Charlie Brown. What will you all do if Chad Henne gets cut or traded from the team before the season starts? Better yet, what will you all do if he DOES start for us net season and plays exactly like he has ever since he started? I doubt many of you have the balls to answer those questions.\
Eh, in fairness to Henne, he was pretty much the same Qb in 2010 as he was in 09, the only real difference is the running game vanished and he got noticeably unlucky I also think he plays to "tight" and does not trust himself very much. Like Dolfans, he kept believing the football would be there when he went to kick it.. Be stunned? 28 starts and a .500 record along with a 800k contract, why release him? And the same thing that probably saved Sparano saves Henne, the lockout means we really cannot trade for a Qb. Expect/Hope the running game returns to form? Henne is mostly a known at this point, caretaker type of Qb with a big arm and a lack of down the field accuracy along with not making throws that carry much risk, you can win with that at Qb if the running game is working and if the Defense and ST are really good. Eh, no place I have not been myself CiF, I can see both sides of the argument concerning #7, and TBH, I really do admire his toughness. Just not sure about the rest of it, 2 yrs of OJT and he has made every mistake a young Qb can imo, perhaps he rebounds in 2011? Big picture, the way things are shaking out, it is very likely to be Chad Henne as our starting Qb, with a young vet brought in to compete with him, but with no trades Russell and Young are real possibilities..or even Thigpen. I hope they lowballed Russell and Thiggy and we sign whomever does not wish to risk going into 2011 with no roster spot but who they feel can beat out Henne for the Qb job.
"Henne lovers" Jesus Cash you're a better poster around here to have to resort to this 3rd grade type of response. It's not about being a "lover" of anyone. It's about acknowledging that different prospects take different amounts of time to develop, that Henne has some talented attributes in his game and acknowledging that he was miscast in a stubborn offense led by Henning. Is it possible he won't progress at all again next year? Of course it is. It's also possible for him to have a rebound year. Should we put all hopes on him? No. As stated I'd like to see us bring in a young prospect to start developing of he dosen't progress. As for trading Henne? If he's so damn bad who would take him? Also why would we trade him to begin with? Who else on the roster is going to compete to man the QB spot next year? Even if we draft a rookie are you telling me you expect that rookie to step in and dominate? Pfft. At the least Henne stays because they need some semblence of experience to compete for the job next year.
Dude...to be honest, I am sick and tired of hearing the never ending excuses for keeping Chad Henne around. Did I hope he was our future QB when we drafted him? Hell yes I did. But that hope faded a LONG time ago for me. I am afraid you all will be catching up with me come about October of this year. Sorry, I see no skills at all in Chad Henne other than a strong arm, and I have been over that for a long time too.
which came first the chicken or the egg? only the henne knows I won't go there anymore. it is what it is I'm all about the up-coming season & diminished expectations we have a major rebuilding to accomplish on offense that will probably take two years to complete Center Left Guard (pulling) RB (franchise quality that can carry the load) QB TE (blocking, H-Back type) WR/ RtnSp (speedster that can do returns & stretch the field on offense ) we need top tier players that can start on day-one & learn on the job if necessary I suggest we all sit back, enjoy the process & hope for the best
Riiight, Henne's worse than AJ Feeley, LMAO. How many times do you have to get exposed before you stop trolling around bashing the QB?
Henne is about the most accurate passer out of his draft class. He is a very accurate thrower, but inconsistent with ball location. According to Bill Polian, he was the best "Pure" thrower in his draft class. According to CK and PFF, Henne had 74% of his passes caught or hit his WRs hands. Chad Pennington in 08, who was extremely accurate, had 76% of his passes caught or hit the WRs hands. The difference is that Pennington's receivers were catching the ball more often than Henne's.
Then, dude, to be honest, you're going to CONSTANTLY be tired of hearing excuses for keeping any young QB around b/c they're both one in the same. The excuse used for Henne will be the same excuse used for most young, still-developing QBs after a typical sophomore slump year. The sooner you realize this general truth, the better. Some members, it seems, will forever be tainted by Marino's atypical, early contribution. That's not the norm, people..... nor does is it the prerequisite for success. Vontae was the best CB in his draft class. Is he a finished product yet? Did he go to the Pro Bowl last year? Did he get burned badly a few times? Has he proven himself to be a reliable starter week in and week out yet? No, No, Yes, No. 2 years Davis has started, yet he gets the benefit of the doubt regarding being allowed to develop and Henne doesn't.???? If you feel we should be calling for Henne's head, then why are you not calling for drafting another CB in the 1st round since Vontae had a sophomore slump and hasn't proven to be a franchise CB yet? Riddle me that one. After all, McCourtney is already a Pro-Bowler after his first year...... so are those 2 not similar to the "Henne-Ryan franchise QB debate? Vontae also has MUCH less pressure on him, and his performance does not rely on as many outside intangibles as Henne. I'm not saying that Vonae needs to be upgraded. I'm saying that Henne deserves the same respect that we're showing Davis.
I keep reading the post you`re referring to and I cant seem to find the part where he mentions A.J. Feeley`s name.
RH, would you like to explain how the type of routes Miami runs affects a QB's accuracy verses say an Eagles type offense.
Does that statistic imply that > 15% of the passes Henne threw resulted in drops? That'd mean our receivers dropped an average of 70 passes in each of the past two years. Pennington's completion percentage is nearly 10% higher than Henne's; I don't buy the stat. Also, the notion that Henne is a better passer than either Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco is laughable. What does Polian know? He took the surefire, slam dunk, automatic pick in the first year he inherited the team and has been set for over a decade... what other passers of note has he drafted since? Jim Sorgi? Please.
I think that philosophy has to be specific, not in general. Sometimes you have to make very tough decisions in the game that just aren't fair to that philosophy...However they selected Henne, so maybe that philosophy will apply to henne. My position did not change since midseason TP, it only got worse...iam ready to move on from the player. but will support the hell out of him if he gets another chance.
It is as it has been in the past with Beck and as it always will be with any Miami Dolphins QB. There are those on this board who think no matter how badly the QB has played he hasn't been given a fair shake and needs more time and will hate any talk of drafting or replacing that QB. Then there are those who will say that QB sucks, and display passionate hatred towards that QB. Then there will be a select few in the middle who don't mind the current QB getting a fair shake, but recognize that the current level of play at the position isn't getting it done. The moderate view if you will. IMHO, the 2 extremes are equally ridiculous points of view.
I don't know about that. Henne's completion percentage is damn sure respectable but I think we'd find that Flacco, and Ryan are as good, if not better. But where Henne should be excelling, he hasn't. His deep pass percentage is one of the worst in the league, and at the time when he was replaced for Pennington, it was ranked 32nd in the league. The Red Zone has also been a problem. I know he needs some of the right weapons to help him there but he was given more than a few deep opportunities. I hated seeing him throwing so out of his norm. Not shifting his weight and many times throwing off his back foot. His motions were out of whack last year.
There's a big difference between Henne and Beck. Beck never really flashed any serious potential to show that he deserved to stick around. It's simple. QBs who flash no potential don't deserve more time; QBs who DO flash potential deserve more time b/c QBs DO take time to develop. Matt Ryan & Flacco's 3 years worth of starting proved that this post season.
Beck never had a chance with the putrid line they put on the field. His first play was a come from behind, head jarring, sack and from then on it was like seeing a deer in headlights. I really liked him in College but he is nothing more than a Career backup and getting killed behind that line for surely ruined him. As could be said with Henne, ala Dan Henning, if he fails....
and his trajectory imo..he just really has a hard time getting that nose of the ball to go up and down.
No, it accounts throwaways and throws that are thrown at the ground on purpose (botched screens, botched routes, etc). Whereas ESPN doesn't account throw aways or anything of that nature in the passes. Henne threw the ball away A LOT more than Pennington. And Henne is a better "Pure" thrower than Ryan and Flacco. Its not laughable at all.
While it's true that Henne has shown potential, it's extremely concerning that he regressed this season. I know the stat monkeys will run out of the woodworks to scream he really didn't regress, but we all saw it. He wasn't sharp during crucial moments. Nowhere near enough big plays down field, and he played scared. He deserves to compete for the job. But our search for a QB isn't over. It won't be until Henne or someone else gives us much better QB play than we saw last season.
Stat Monkey? Right on! :hifive: Well, my take on Chad Henne is you can win with him but the Qb won't be the centerpiece of the offense, he does not hit the deep routes and he lacks the sort of courage that a Qb needs to be better than average, he is a sort of more accurate version of Gus Frerotte without Gus's accuracy on deep stuff. Agree he should be in a legit competition for the starting job, not with some 6th rd pick, but if at the end of it all he is our starter I can live with it but do not expect very much from him. Ireland/Sparano/Gugs had better get the running game going.
Henne's statistics did slightly improve in some areas which is a good thing but he is a strong armed Qb who is made to throw deep passes with better accuracy. It's nice to see a Qb, with his arm strength, complete the intermediate stuff and improve on it from one year to the next. Where I see regression is in his deeper passes. Like I said earlier. When they tried replacing him with Pennington, he was near last in the league in deeper throws. Both attempts, and completion percentage and of course we saw how the int's increased. Assuming he is the starter next season. It's make or break...
If the Jets can make the AFC Championship game 2 years in a row with a great defense, strong ground game, and an average QB surrounded by playmakers, then we can make it to the SB with an even better defense and a similar offense. Like GM alluded to--- we just need to get the ground game humpin and add some playmakers <to make our offense more dynamic and explosive>. Luckily we have a franchise LT, a franchise WR, and an elite 3rd down machine in Bess, so filling in the rest of the holes (even with Henne at QB) shouldn't be that difficult, especially considering the number of playmaking WRs/TEs/RBs that can usually be found through the first 4 rounds (as well as their abundance in FA). Our defense can use 1 key addition somewhere to take us from very good to elite, and our offense can use 3-4 easy upgrades to take us from mediocre to good..... which should in turn make us contenders.
What's extremely concerning is that we spent the number 1 overall pick, a 3rd, a 4th, a 6th, and $80+ million in FA contracts on the OL and yet our OL remains a work in progress. It's concerning that we have a a #2 and #5 overall pick at RB along with that OL and yet we cant run the ball consistently on anyone. It's concerning that a team built to be a run first team is instead asking the QB to bail them out every week, and with who at his disposal? Two real receivers and a bunch of practice squad guys. Its concerning that by the 2nd half of the season we had guys like Marlon Moore, Roberto Wallace, Kevin Curtis, Mickey Shuler, J Mastrud & Dedric Epps running downfield trying to get open vs defenses who had actual NFL players. Its concerning that Henne had to try and throw to these guys while being protected by Lydon Murtha, Incognito, Pat McQuistan, a hobbled Jake Long and a hobbled Joe Berger. Its concerning that we used 3 centers, 3 RTs, 2 RGs, and 2 LGs, we had one, ONE OL play the whole season injury free. ONE. I haven't even gotten to the OC. Dan Henning's lack of imagination, creativity, strategic sense and unpredictability was very concerning. In spite of all that, Henne's numbers improved. Does that mean his play actually improved? No. But if Henne regressed, while also dealing with the plethora of issues listed above, then I'm open to any and all explanations for how his stats couldve moved northwards even an inch. Even if we were to pretend that we've never heard of a sophomore slump, and we ignore the myriad reasons why they occur. Even if we ignore Henne being jerked around and arguably undermined by his own coaches. Even if we ignore the total lack of speed and playmaking ability from his teammates at the skill positions. Even if we pretend that football isnt a team sport, and that QB play is a zero sum game where coaching and surrounding talent is irrelevant to the success/failure of the QB. Even if we did all of those things, I still wouldn't be "extremely concerned" by Henne's "regression". It's a regression that no one on this board seems to be able to articulate factually. Did Henne have some bad moments this year? Damn right, but so did Peyton Manning. And I'm not extremely concerned about him either.
How is Henne not the better pure passer in any way, shape, or form? I actually have seen him throw 2 feet in front of me at the Elite 11 camp. I would like to know why you think he isn't a better pure passer...
I think a "passer" knows exactly where to place the ball, what angle, what velosity. Henne is more a thrower. He throws it near his target and hopes they catch it. More of what Al Davis likes. Just throw it deep and it's the WR's job to get it before the DB's do.
Well he does not throw a good deep ball, how much of that was on his knee injury effecting his throws, something no one brings up, and how much of that is just a lack of polish is one of the unknowns with #7. Robert Horry would know better than I, but it seemed to me the routes they called for Henne to throw were not really designed for RAC or YAC, they were more throw the ball to a spot in the least risky manner possible....in sandlot ball they would be "you take ten steps then turn around and the ball will be there" type of routes not slants and out and ups and routes that produce long plays. It was as if the entire offense was peeing their pants that the ball could be turned over.
2010 ranks, from greatest to least... Passing Yards: Ryan, Flacco, Henne Touchdowns: Ryan, Flacco, Henne Completion Percentage: Flacco, Ryan, Henne Yds/Game: Ryan, Flacco, Henne Interceptions: Henne, Flacco, Ryan Yds/Att: Flacco, Henne, Ryan QB Rating: Flacco, Ryan, Henne Starting to get the picture? The only thing that Henne wasn't the worst in (these are by large margins, mind you) was Yds/Att and that's a result of Matt Ryan checking in a career low for the statistic. I'm not sure what you're getting at with your "pure thrower" semantics.... if you want to associate Chad Henne to the leftmost side of "JUGS Machine to Peyton Manning" scale, then fine. I agree. ...But that's not what I want to be quarterbacking my team. I saw Jacory Harris throw 2 feet from me too. Doesn't mean he's good.
I respect your opinion GM.. To me the problems are not his surroundings, to me they are fundamental, physical flaws, that he needs to improve on in order for him to get better...now can the team improve if you get better pieces surrounding the skillset of Henne, sure, but at this point, I think Henne is what he is, so if thats the skillset you wanna go all in with and try to win a championship with, thats where I have to distance myself from your projection...I dont think his skillset can hold up, especially when playoff intensity can expose the certain flaws that he does have, even more... On his behalf, most coaches in this league think that if a rookie QB sustains his playin his sophmore year from his rookie year, its a win situation.
Because his stats say he is close but behind the other two in passing. Sure, he hit like 75 percent of his targets withing range but that does not mean anything. Could it change with the three Qb's playing with the exact same personel? Sure it can, and I do know he had things going against him like his OC for one example but both Flaco, and Ryan have been better pure, all around passers. His biggest strength has been a weakness so far...
No, I understood completely. It's easy for most Dolphins fans, or it should be after having probably the best pure passer in the history of the game on their team. I admitted to it being close. Said it could be due to his weapons, and OC but stats tell us differently as far as passing between the three.
