Why Kyle Orton is likely to be traded

I'm with you on Orton for sure but not so much on Young especially now since they will look to trade him. And that contract... Yikes. I have no confidence in VY simply because he has no confidence in himself. He has no focus. Last thing we need is a guy like that.

 

I don't see Orton or Young as an upgrade. JMO

 

I'd be happier with Orton/Henne combination + draft pick than henne/Thigpen/draft pick.
If Vince Young ends up being our QB, then we know God is a Jets fan.

 

I don't see any better available options than Henne. It's not that I don't want to see them. It's just that they are not there.

Orton and Young both want to start. I see them both going elsewhere.

 

While Orton did not do well until he went to Denver, I'd say he is an obvious upgrade over Henne, and especially short term.

Orton is just farther along and seemed to finally be developing into a decent Qb.

Could Henne surpass where Orton is now? Sure he can and that brings the big question. Are both Sparano, and Ireland willing to risk their jobs and keep Henne etched in as the starter without giving him some, at least, equal competition?

 

WHAT IS THE INFATUATION WITH VINCE YOUNG? We need another Headcase like... I DONT EVEN HAVE A BAD ENOUGH ANALOGY TO MAKE!

 

I still find it difficult to believe they will trade a veteran QB like Orton .

Orton may still beat out Tebow in training camp .Tebow is just a rookie and he will experience some growing pains so a veteran QB will be needed anyway.The contract can be re-negotiated.

Now if Orton demands to be traded it would be a different matter.That would be an admission that he doesnt think he can beat Tebow or that he doesnt think he would be given a fair chance.

 

I think the Broncos would be taking a big risk trading Orton. I like Tebow, but he's still a project. And he's a guy who takes a ton of hits. Even though he's a Big Ben type, (possibly the only other one in the league), you'd have to consider his injury risk to be fairly high.

I wouldn't mind a Vince Young. He has clearly proven that he can be part of a winning formula. I think he's too much of a head case to bet the future on, but he can fill a spot and produce while you develop a draft pick.

 

I'm not a big Orton fan, would rather give Henne more time. I doubt any team is going to release guys until the CBA is resolved though. It would not make sense for Tenn to release him prior to then....JMHO, but what would they have to gain ?? Nothing, really.

To finish my first thought, I'd rather see us put a more solid team around Henne (ie...a decent OL, a seam-busting TE, a speed threat WR and returner that other teams at least respect, if not fear...Then let's see if he can make more noise ?

 

I can't agree with that. Vince Young with this current team would do very poorly IMO.
If we beef up the offensive line and get a real running game, then VY could probably do OK here. but then, couldn't we make the same statement for Chad Henne (I know you wouldn't because you're officially off that bandwagon).

 

It's amazing how you'll bend over backwards to make excuses for any QB, except your own. The grass is greener, one man's trash...It all applies.

If you measure Henne's first three years vs Orton's first three, Henne has outplayed him by a significant margin. Orton made a significant improvement in his 3rd year as a starter. (Henne's 3rd year is coming up) He then made another significant leap when he got to Denver w/ McDaniels' QB friendly system (Henne will have Daboll this year). Even still, he's a 58% passer w/ a 6.5 YPA and a 78 QBR. In SIX years. http://www.nfl.com/players/kyleorton/profile?id=ORT716150. If Henne put up those numbers over the same period you'd be screaming for him to be fired, not brought in as the starter.

Orton got better under McDaniels, Cassell played well under McDaniels, then went to KC and stunk until Weis showed up and he did well again. Daboll studied under both of those guys, and seemed to have McCoy on the right track last year. Good coaching is a beautiful thing, especially for developing QB's. Apparently you're OK with waiting for a QB to develop, you just lack the patience to watch him develop on your own team. That's the logic that brought us Fiedler, Feeley, Harrington, Griese, Lucas, Green, Culpepper, Pennington & 1 playoff appearance in 10 years.

I'm not bashing Orton. I watched all of his 2009 snaps during my Marshall craze last offseason, and about half of this years games, IMO he's decent. Better than Henne? Perhaps, but no more than slightly better. I don't see any differences that cant be explained by experience and coaching. Henne is ahead of where Orton was at a similar stage in his career, and clearly has more potential for improvement. Apparently, Tebow has more potential as well b/c Orton is on the outs up there and I've had enough of looking thru the NFL trash heaps for a QB. Draft someone and make a commitment to them or stick w/ what you've got and make the best of it.

 

This ^^^. I see a QB, 2 time Pro-Bowler, #2 pick, ex ROY, good win %, coming off of his best statistical season. If the Titans don't want Young, if Fisher was willing to quit rather than continue with him, then common sense says there is something very wrong with the guy.

 

How many Bronco/Titan games did you watch this year?

Orton's improvement started in year 4. By your logic, you would've been fired him right before he became an "ascending player". You're talking in circles, again.

 

Is it just me or did Henne's performance really go south once Hartline was out of the line-up? I think with our weak running game and no speed on the outside, our passing offense really tanked. I do find it odd that we all agree that our OC was crap, our offensive line was weak, our running backs were average and we lack speed though out the offensive - yet some ignore the impact all of this had on our QB and simply dismiss him as "crap." I do think we need to bring in someone to compete with him but would sure like to see how he would do with some of these other issues solved.

 

I must say I'm one of the few here that totally agrees with everything you just said.... Well done

 

You didnt answer the question. How many of his games have you seen? And do you disagree that Orton didnt look like starter material until at least year 4?

 

Common sense is a beautiful thing. Good post.

 

I love how you've convinced yourself that Henne was the main problem on offense and it had nothing to do with his environment. No offense I know you are smarter than that deep down. You have to know better. The irony here bro is that it is the exact opposite argument you were making when defending Pat White tooth and nail for all those months.
Just thought I would point that out. Thought the Henne hatred might be clouding your vision today.God Bless ya!

 

That explains a lot, actually. If you have time, you might want to watch more than a couple games before declaring anyone the answer at QB.
http://gamerewind.nfl.com/nflgr/dashboard. Off season pass is a good deal IMO. I'm going to watch Daboll & see what's up this summer, not looking forward to it though. Not at all.

 

Yeah he showed improvement but he was nothing special in Chigaco.

I'm not at all comfortable with the offensive line and especially so if they keep Berger, and Ingognito in their same spots.

I'm not much of a Vince Young fan either. I like my Qb's sticking in the pocket as much as possible, and if need be, they run for an occassional 1st down. Although Young has won in the NFL when his heads screwed on tight but that's just it. There might be a bolt or two missing. For free and to a decent contract for 2 seasons maybe but in no way do I think he'd be a good thing to TRY for long term.

 

The biggest issue I saw with Chad was the breakdown of his confidence. I know he's been schooled since day one to avoid the big mistake and check down if necessary - he's had all aggressive instincts drilled out of him by the coaching staff. As for his confidence, once things started going poorly for him, it really went off the rails. The question is why did things go poorly? Where did that obscenely confident player from the Jets and Pats games of 2009 go?

From a performance perspective, the running game was much better last year. But another factor rarely mentioned was the presence of Chad Pennington. He wasn't around last year while Henne was ascending but was here throughout as Henne regressed. At times, I think Pennington's presence prevented Henne from asserting his leadership over the offense. Next year will be very telling - a true make or break year for Henne in Miami.

 

This is the crux of Henne's problem right now:

You cannot start Chad Henne, and expect him to confidently lead the offense in 2011 without having him compete for his job in the offseason. The guy can't go in thinking he's the guy just because there's no one else available. You probably won't be able to do that if you draft a QB, because the only QBs available will likely be project players that need at least a year to make the transition to the NFL.

So you're stuck looking at FA for competition. But are you really going to spend $7-$9 mil a year for a VY or KO, to have them possibly lose the starting job to Henne, and be an expensive backup? So you can throw that out the window as a possible avenue to boost his confidence.

I really would like to see the 2009 confident Henne come back in 2011 and get some starting time with a better OL (If you recall Pass protection was great at the start of the year, while Henne was playing great, and degraded greatly towards the end), some better Run game production, playcalls that make sense (no 3rd and long PA), and having all of our receivers active and uninjured.

The problem is, I don't see any scenario where we get that 2009 confidence from Chad Henne back. There's no way the fans rally behind this guy again, and that's really the only chance he has other than stomping a competition against an equal.

 

You hate Chad Henne, we get that. I don't, we get that too. My priority is improving the offense, the running game first, and then the passing game. Your priority is replacing Chad Henne, with anyone you can think of. I don't see how simply voting against the incumbent improves the team or gets us closer to being on par with NE & NYJ.

 

I know this is a view shared by many fans and apparently even some players. My concern with Henne, and this leads back to the greater concerns with the offense, is what happens if we let him go and he goes to a place like NE to get reprogrammed? It's not as if they don't have a strong track record making players out of our cast-offs. Are we so confident in his inability that we're ok with him going there and becoming Brady's eventual replacement? That would be just a lovely twice a year reminder of our ineptitude.

 

You left out average OL, plodding RBs, garbage TEs, pedestrian WRs, no playmakers, and an incompetent OC. If you think bringing in "competition" for Henne will solve any of that, you're dreaming. How about some competition for Cobbs, Shuler, Hartline, Berger, Hilliard, Moore, Wallace, Williams, Brown, etc.

Henning was let go immediately, we tried to fire Sparano but couldn't, my opinion may not manner, but clearly the Brass think that the problems on O go way past the QB.

 

For whatever the reasons, Henne was surely part of the problem. I want to see them MAKE Henne throw more deep passes during the preseason. Not check downs or short digs or drags. Make him air it out and see what his completion percentage is.

 

I'm not absolving anyone of guilt, far from it. I'm just saying if you compare 2009 Chad Henne, and 2010 Chad Henne there's a fire, and a confidence missing. Maybe it got beaten out of him by Henning and Sparano. Maybe he got into his own head too much. I don't think anyone can even begin to say for sure what caused it.

But in regards to him, and only him, if you want to see that fire back something has to spark it. If he could rekindle the flame himself we'd have seen it in some of those final meaningless games. While I think any improvement to any of those problems (except WR, I really think you're downplaying our WR talent) will improve Henne's game, the most important thing is him taking command of that offense. There are quite a few examples of players seemingly quitting on this offense, and a lot of it seemed like it was directed at Henne (Marshall repeatedly, Fasano at least once that I can recall off the top of my head, the running backs not even attempting to sell the PA fake). He's got to believe in himself, and everyone around him has to too, or we're likely to see more of people just going through the motions.

I'm not bagging on Henne by any means. I think if he gets his swagger back, and we make the necessary changes to the offense like you mentioned, then we're in a very good position. But I don't think that one or the other is going to get it done. I think it's going to take Henne to bounce back, and most of those leaks plugged.