Saw this posted at another Forum......(Bess content)

Toddsphins to agree in 4..3..2...



Well, I cannot get over Anthony Armstrong beasting with the Redskins, he was mostly an after thought in Miami, a pajama practice wonder. If they can find him, they can find someone else who can be the burner without peddling DBess.

 

Interesting....

 

Bess and Marshall are both possession receivers but each brings a different set of skills to the table. Bess works the underneath like no one's business. He runs clean routes, has sharp breaks and is very quick. He's not fast but if you blink once he's past you. Marshall on the other hand is a bigger bodied more physical receiver. Point being, just because Bess isn't a deep threat doesn't mean he doesn't bring a dynamic and necessary skill set to the table. He's much more valuable to us than any 2nd rounder.

 

The Dolphins didn't get rid of Welker. They screwed up by not tendering him higher, but they didn't get rid of him. He signed a poison pill contract as a RFA and the league stepped in and turned it into a trade. The Dolphins wanted to keep him, and thought that they'd have the opportunity to match any offer he'd sign. Problem was he didn't want to stay, so he signed a poison pill.

 

That's not what is says here:
The New England Patriots acquired three-year veteran wide receiver Wes Welker from the Miami Dolphins on Monday. Wes WelkerWide Receiver
New England Patriots

Profile2006 SEASON STATISTICSRecYdsTDAvgLongYAC67687110.338285
In exchange for Welker, the Patriots sent their 2007 second- and seventh-round draft picks to Miami.
After the trade, Welker agreed Tuesday to a five-year, $18.1 million contract includes a $9 million signing bonus, ESPN.com's John Clayton reported.

 

No way I would trade him unless I'm using the pick on Jerrel Jernigan to address the void at the slot that I just created (and even then I probably wouldn't do it). His 3rd down conversion ability is much too valuable to this team.

Apparently this person forgot that Hartline is on the team and serves as our #2 (where our vertical threat needs be coming from). If you want an upgrade at WR with more speed/playmaking ability, then that's the inconsistent guy who needs to be looked at, not the most reliable receiver on the team.

 

Actually, I'd move Hartline to BM's position, move BM to slot, and leave the other side of the formation open for a new acquisition in that scenario.

To me, wouldn't mind taking a run at Randy Moss for that other Wr position..

I do like Marlon Moore, but he is no Bess, who won't be going anywhere, like Hartline as well but thought he slumped at the beginning of the yr.

 

This happened AFTER what Two Tacos said.

Source from the Boston Globe

 

The need for speed will send Hartline to the bench. You get a Wr with some wheels and then you can move Bess and Marshall all over the place.

 

especially if we can get a Mercedes Lewis, Owen Daniels, or Zach Miller at TE to compliment them.

 

Bess gets yards
MArshall gets chunks of yards

 

Bess is one of the best slot receivers in the NFL. He represents what's right with this offense, not what's wrong.

And it's not as if we have another player making him expendable, as Marshall is a different type of player. No way I'm getting rid of Bess.

 

We'll see Ozzy, Hartline is plenty fast enough, the problem is #7 has craptacular accuracy on anything over 25 yds.

 

Yes, and I know Hartline could have had a sophmore slump but he was pretty inconsistant at times last year. I know he's fast enough to get behind defenders and Henne missed him on many an occassion but with a true speedster, the offense can open it up more.

That is if they take care of the most important missing link on this team. Which is the running game...

 

Not so much Oz, the Defense does not have to be as aware of the threat of Hartline getting open deep if Henne does not hit consistently on those passes.

There are several reasons why I do not really trust Henne as the Starting Qb, this issue is yet another one of them.

 

How can this thought even be considered as rational? Trade one of our best playmakers for a draft pick? We get draft picks for free every year. Its part of being an NFL franchise. Draft picks are not sure things, especially wide receivers. I don't see how any Dolphins fan can be in favor of this idea after how long it took to replace Chambers, Welker, and McMichael.

 

We know it's all Henne's fault even thou his passing is involved in Bess success, Henne throws to Bess he catches it no drops like Marshall and Hartline.

 

I'd hate to see Bess go, as he is my favorite current dolphin, but if we could get a 2nd for him, you have to make that trade all day.

 

You would trade a Wr who has had 75+ receptions each of the past two years for a 2nd round pick? He has 209 receptions in 3 years as an undrafted free agent. Why would you take your biggest success story and get rid of him? Did we learn nothing from Welker? Bess could be better than Welker.

 

Love Bess and would hate to see him go anywhere.... Fasano productive but Marshall wasnt? That has to be one of the strangest quotes I have seen around here. Marshall pretty much doubled Fasano in catches and yard this year.

 

You cannot pin everything on Henne though. There were plenty of times when Henne hit Hartline in the hands and he dropped it.

I would also think that if the offense is supposed to open up, it will mean that Henne will be looking more for the deeper routes.

That is if Henne is starting which should not be etched in stone at this point.

 

Problem is Ozzy, Henne has not shown to be accurate down the field, it really is a problem as with his arm he should be able to hit deep stuff, but instead he is more or less a 15 yd and in passer who is not terribly accurate or anticipates very well.

Basically he is a Qb who is mismatched between physical tools and skillset, big arm who does not throw deep well, decent accuracy but who does not anticipate well enough to throw receivers open.

 

We had no choice but to trade Welker. You must not remember the situation.

A 2nd round draft pick for the investment and thusfar return for a UDFA? That's a massive profit margin.

 

The problem with your equation is that Bess is worth more than a draft pick. This isn't real estate where you buy and sell property to make a profit. If that were the case then the Colts would be trading Peyton Manning for 4 first round picks. Thats a huge profit for them!

 

Yeah let's trade away one of the best slot WR in the Nfl and further establish ourself as a joke of an organization

*facepalm*

 

Peyton Manning IS the Colts. It's not a question of value. Bess, as great of a player as he's been for us, if we can make a 2nd rounder in return for him? You make that trade all day. QB is the most important position on the field. Possession WR is expendable.

You have to learn how to not be emotionally involved. It's why fans aren't GMs

 

He was an UDFA. You can find those guys. I'm not suggesting he doesn't have value.....And I'm as attached to him as I am any Dolphin. I love his story, and, his work ethic...etc, etc...But a 2nd rounder for him? You make that trade.

 

It has nothing to do with emotional involvement. Your whole premise is skewed, IMO. You don't trade a smart, heady player who can keep the chains moving for a pick that may not even pan out. Did trading Wes Welker turn out to be the right move because we got great return for a free agent? No, because Welker accrued value, and what we received in return didn't. Likewise Bess has accrued value, is considered one of the 2 or 3 best slot guys in the league, and now you want to gamble it away. It's ok to do it if you're the Patriots and you can't play both Tom Brady and Matt Cassel. But I think you're underestimating the value Bess brings to this team, and overestimating that you can just find a UDFA to plug back in. If that's the case, there would be a lot more like him around the league.

 

Trade Bess? Let's not be silly now.

 

A 2nd rounder can bring more upside to the table than Bess...Now, with THIS organization..You're right. If I was THIS organization, I keep Bess. You keep the nut you found blindly over a nut that you reach to pick off the tree like Pat White...Who doesn't even play football now.

 

I find it depressing that our offense has been SO bad for SO long we think the only way to score is long bombs. Most teams have guys that can get the ball in their hands and score from anywhere. They use short slants or get guys going across the middle of the field. We (and not just Henning, this has been going on for YEARS) only bring guys back towards the line of scrimmage or towards the sidelines - never up the field.

The long bomb plays are great - but we need guys that can make one or two moves and break a play open. Hartline is not that guy.

 

We're unable to find a QB that can run the offense, and, unable to find an offense that makes any sense (PA on third and long isn't fooling anyone)

 

Well Padre, I'm not a big fan of Henne, as you should already know. I don't think he's terrible. I think he is good but not VERY good. At worst he makes a damned good backup.

But to his defense, and yes, he has not hit the long ball too well, but they have not MADE him throw it enough iimo. That's how you get better or not. Do the things needed to improve during a game. This would have been a good year to do so seeing that they missed the playoffs but who woulda known from day one.

I'm dying to see them bring in a Qb but with the way things look, it won't be too easy. Not to easy to bring in one that is clearly going to give Henne a run for the starters job right away.

 

So Oz, that is the thing, the deep patterns are run Henne rarely throws them and takes the underneath stuff instead.

Hartline was scorching the Bengals secondary, and Henne did not come close to hitting him, ditto the Browns until he broke his hand.

That and imo Henne does not enjoy airing the ball out down the field, that could be coaching with the "Thou shalt not turn the ball over" but he is so reluctant to throw them to me I cannot believe it is all on the coaching.

For Henne, anything in the middle of the field past 25 yds is just not going to happen, he will throw it up near the sidelines and outside of the hash marks, but deep turn in routes he just doesn't throw, the type of route that Desean Jackson thrives on is exactly the route he won't throw.

 

It doesn't matter what he "was". It matters what he "is" now..... and that's an integral part of this team. Not to mention, if we're going to be spreading things out a bit more, we'll need MORE receivers, not LESS.

Considering Hartline hasn't proven to be reliable yet, I don't see how you'd want us going into a season with only Marshall, Hartline, Moore, Wallace, and possibly a rookie who may take a year or two to develop. That's making things HARDER for the offense, not easier.

 

No offense, but do you play the weekly lottery with optimism that you might win it some day? lol.

"more upside to the table than Bess"? He's the main reason we're the best team in the NFL at converting 3rd downs when it's not 10+ yards to go. That's an important aspect of the game-- <conversions>. If you think you'll find someone with more "upside" at converting 3rd downs, then you're sorely mistaken.

Bess & Marshall are 2 solid guys to build a corps around.

 

That's why I want Jernigan, Titus Young, or Greg Little (or all 3 of them if I could).