Henne's Ratings Game by Game vs Opposing QB's

CaribPhin · Jan 27, 2011

CashInFist said:

Chad Henne blew monkey balls all over the field the entire season. LOL, you all will understand when he is out of the NFL in three seasons.
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See, the problem Cash, is not that people generally disagree with you. It's just that you say some pretty dumb things and say it like someone with the mental acumen of a NY Jet fan.

ToddsPhins · Jan 27, 2011

KingMotion said:

See, the problem Cash, is not that people generally disagree with you. It's just that you say some pretty dumb things and say it like someone with the mental acumen of a NY Jet fan.
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exactly....... b/c we all know that monkey's aren't even allowed on the field. Unless CashnFist is referring to Bess & Marshall, which I hope he's not, b/c that would be completely racist, and he'd have to be moderated for that sort of thing.

GMJohnson · Jan 27, 2011

ToddsPhins said:

No, b/c when we traded for him I thought Ginn would still be here to stretch the field.
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You probably thought we'd have a running game too.

Ozzy · Jan 28, 2011

vt_dolfan said:

I think Henne's rating reflect the team overall.....

You notice as the offense started to fall apart.....it was many players whos performance level dropped...not just Henne's....

That points out two things to me....

Henne is NOT the type of QB that will bring a team UP....but he is a very good quarterback when he has the pieces in place...and the team is jelling.....

Last season things just kinda blew up offensively....players and Henne obviously...got frustrated....especially with Henning. Lets see how Henne responds...
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The one consistant about last seasons offense was Dan Henning. He consistantly sucked at doing the same things instead of playing to the limited strengths he had.

With that said, Henne was not a very good Qb last season. For whatever reason, including Henning, he regressed. Some games were good and some were horrible.

The season before, he played well, and showed promise. So Henne deserves to be on the team competing for the starting job. But in no way has he shown he's a very good Qb. He's shown he is tough, and can make some throws. He does not get rattled easily and all of those are good traits to BECOME good.

So if he wants to become a very good Qb, he surely can but he's going to have to work extra hard to get there.

RevRick · Jan 28, 2011

CashInFist said:

Ummm...Chad Henne can not hit the open Wr when he is ten yards away...

And there you go again, being GMJohnson's cheerleader.
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THAT is quite possibly the single most over-opinionated, under-informed, utterly thoughtless display of bovine scatology I have seen posted on this site - EVER!

rafael · Jan 28, 2011

GMJohnson said:

Agreed. But it's not like we weren't easy to defend before Hartline went out .
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True, but once Hartline was out there almost no reason to have any defender deeper than 20 yards.

GMJohnson · Jan 28, 2011

rafael said:

True, but once Hartline was out there almost no reason to have any defender deeper than 20 yards.
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Agreed. Which is what I and a few other have been trying to explain. People want to dumb it down to "Henne sucks", not realizing that by the end of the year we had no credible method for attacking a defense. Without a running game or any way to stretch the field, our whole offense was being suffocated. Henne had no choice but to make risky throws into tiny windows underneath the coverage, it was our only option. Expecting him to succeed in that spot, with that supporting cast is completely unrealistic. Hopefully we'll add a decent running game, plus some speed and play making ability during the offseason. If not, count on Henne continuing to "suck".

ToddsPhins · Jan 28, 2011

GMJohnson said:

Agreed. Which is what I and a few other have been trying to explain. People want to dumb it down to "Henne sucks", not realizing that by the end of the year we had no credible method for attacking a defense. Without a running game or any way to stretch the field, our whole offense was being suffocated. Henne had no choice but to make risky throws into tiny windows underneath the coverage, it was our only option. Expecting him to succeed in that spot, with that supporting cast is completely unrealistic. Hopefully we'll add a decent running game, plus some speed and play making ability during the offseason. If not, count on Henne continuing to "suck".
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This.

............ This is me as your cheerleader........ I obviously need some practice. (Q-Paco likes wearing ballet tights; maybe he can teach me something. )

Southbeach · Jan 28, 2011

rafael said:

I think it needs to include what the QB does with the ball when he doesn't pass. If a QB takes a ton of sacks, that's obviously a negative. If a QB takes off and runs for positive yards that would be a positive. Those passer impacts aren't included in the current QBR. So IMO a true passer rating would include everything that a passer does with the ball other than hand off.
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PFF does that, which is why I posted their per game opinion as well. They go positive or negative on the play, not the stat. They actually like Henne more than the QBR's.

rafael · Jan 28, 2011

Southbeach said:

PFF does that, which is why I posted their per game opinion as well. They go positive or negative on the play, not the stat. They actually like Henne more than the QBR's.
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I don't like the way PFF just adds up everything to get a cumulative rating. I think it ignores inconsistency and it misses a value element.

Southbeach · Jan 28, 2011

CashInFist said:

LOL...You are in a wet dream with your infatuation with Chad Henne. Didn't have a full compliment of WR??? He had a top five all around WR in Brandon Marshall and the best slot WR in the NFL in Davone Bess. Smoke another one man.

Anthony Fasano is regarded as one of the better TE in the NFL too.
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On the surface, you make a couple of good points. Marshall is a top WR but, being injured in camp, did not allow he and Henne time needed to work together. This is not just my opinion but that of a number of coaches and GM's as well.

I agree with Bess, and he had a VG year.

I also agree with Fasano. However, we had no second TE. Schuler's catch, late in the season, was the first other than Fasano. As a result of that, and the problems on the OL, Fasano was kept in a whole lot t block, which he did as good as any TE.

I also like Hartline, who started slow, was VG, and then got hurt.

Do you have an opinion on, if and how, no running game affected our young QB? Any opinion on how Henning's play calls affected our young QB? Any opinion on how the patchwork OL affected our young QB? Or, do they not matter?

Southbeach · Jan 28, 2011

GISH said:

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but I'm not a Henne homer. I'm on the fence with Henne. I'm curious to see what he'll do with one more chance, but I'm more than prepared to say goodbye to him if we secure someone better. Even if that someone is Kyle Orton. Henne has yet to prove he can read a defense and make adjustments. He hasn't shown exceptional leadership skills. He struggles with accuracy. And worst of all he doesn't throw enough touchdowns to make up for his interceptions. He's kinda like Jay Fiedler but with less leadership and more arm strength.
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I'm sure that everyone here would agree that they were at least somewhat disappointed in Henne this past season. It was not what most expected or, more importantly, hoped for.

The difference I see is that some see the forest, some see the tree, and others are gathering twigs and dried out leaves to start a fire. I prefer the forest.

Southbeach · Jan 28, 2011

CirclingWagons said:

I got that granddaddy purp if ya'll need to smoke the peace pipe
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HOW! As they say in Indian or, one trying to arrange the logistics. LOL

Southbeach · Jan 28, 2011

CashInFist said:

Chad Henne blew monkey balls all over the field the entire season. LOL, you all will understand when he is out of the NFL in three seasons.
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Let's forget about this pointless post. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, regardless of how wrong it is.

Now comes the tuff part. You have to give better options for our team's QB. This is much more difficult than "blowing smoke." I look forward to your better solutions, with some backup as to why they are.

Southbeach · Jan 28, 2011

rafael said:

I don't like the way PFF just adds up everything to get a cumulative rating. I think it ignores inconsistency and it misses a value element.
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They did an interview with a current OL, who said their grades were very close to that of the team. Take that for whatever it's worth. I posted how they grade before. If youdid not see it, I will re-post the link.

Southbeach · Jan 28, 2011

ToddsPhins said:

This.

............ This is me as your cheerleader........ I obviously need some practice. (Q-Paco likes wearing ballet tights; maybe he can teach me something. )
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You always appear to be "on your toe's" so I doubt the ballet training will help.

2socks · Jan 28, 2011

Killerphins said:

They put the blame on Henne then gave him the hook.
Killed his confidence then went back to him.
Gave him his job back blamed him again and then threw him under the bus in front of the world. Henning calling out his QB to the media.
Henning and Lee are idiots. No wonder the young QB was so erratic.
Gave him no help with the run game and Henne played on a whopperjawed knee cap.
No help from Marshall on YAC
It would be disastrous not to give this guy another shot. Hopefully in a more stable environment.
Last season was a maelstrom.
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OK SO I am canceling my NFL ticket...Not paying $400 to watch us go 6-10

Southbeach · Jan 29, 2011

rafael said:

I don't like the way PFF just adds up everything to get a cumulative rating. I think it ignores inconsistency and it misses a value element.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/

Raf, here's the link on how PFF grades, as promised. This is Henne week by week.

1.6, 0.6, 5.1, -0.9, bye, 3.7, 1.6, 3.1, 1.6, 3.6, Thig, 5.7, -1.4, -0.9, 0.6, 2.2, -1.4 Overall-24.8, #17, Cutler-25.2, #16.

To better understand, Peyton had 3 games at 8.6, 4 at 4.1-5.1, 5 at 3.1-3.6, a 2.1, 1.1, 0.7, and 2 negatives for a 60.

They also grade a QB for running. Henne is at 2.5. To compare, Vick is at 27. Ryan- 3, Big Ben- 3.5, Flacco- 3, and Eli and Peyton at 0.5 and -0.5.

Based on this, they are saying that Henne had 2 VG games, 3 good games, 4 a little above average, and 7 average or below. This sounds fair, shows the lack of consistency for him, the team, and puts Henne in the middle of the pack this past season.

All things considered, it is not a reason to believe Chad to be the answer. It is also not a reason to believe he may not be. It is a reason to want to see more.
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Robert Horry · Jan 29, 2011

I would like to know why Henne approached Henning at the halftime of the Bears game and told him to stop setting up the team for failure?

rafael · Jan 29, 2011

Southbeach said:

rafael said:

I don't like the way PFF just adds up everything to get a cumulative rating. I think it ignores inconsistency and it misses a value element.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/

Raf, here's the link on how PFF grades, as promised. This is Henne week by week.

1.6, 0.6, 5.1, -0.9, bye, 3.7, 1.6, 3.1, 1.6, 3.6, Thig, 5.7, -1.4, -0.9, 0.6, 2.2, -1.4 Overall-24.8, #17, Cutler-25.2, #16.

To better understand, Peyton had 3 games at 8.6, 4 at 4.1-5.1, 5 at 3.1-3.6, a 2.1, 1.1, 0.7, and 2 negatives for a 60.

They also grade a QB for running. Henne is at 2.5. To compare, Vick is at 27. Ryan- 3, Big Ben- 3.5, Flacco- 3, and Eli and Peyton at 0.5 and -0.5.

Based on this, they are saying that Henne had 2 VG games, 3 good games, 4 a little above average, and 7 average or below. This sounds fair, shows the lack of consistency for him, the team, and puts Henne in the middle of the pack this past season.

All things considered, it is not a reason to believe Chad to be the answer. It is also not a reason to believe he may not be. It is a reason to want to see more.
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Thanks, I appreciate it.

I think the problem with using these grades to draw too many conclusions is that they are just grading results. They can't apportion blame. I don't think there's any way they could do this, so its not necessarily a criticism of their process, but rather a caution as to what conclusions we can draw. For example, IMO the offensive system had much more of a negative impact on Henne's results than a positive one. I disagree that Henne's play was inconsistent. I saw the same level of accuracy and decision making from game to game and from play to play. The results were certainly inconsistent, but I think they varied mostly based on whether or not the running game was abandoned and how the defense was defending. And I think it was fairly obvious that Henne was better in certain formations and types of plays than others yet we seemed to have him work an inordinate amount of the time in formations and plays that he struggled in. I could say the same thing about the running backs. I don't have a subscription so I'm guessing, but my guess is that the backs graded out poorly as the results were poor. But I also feel that we've seen over the years that RB and RW had certain types of plays they were better at than others. For example, RW's best play by far is the counter yet for some reason we ran very few counters for him this year. Instead we seemed to send him outside far too often despite him not being as fast as he used to be. These are examples of the system putting players in positions where they are less likely to succeed. It isn't fair to then conclude that the players couldn't have had more success if they had been put in better situations. I'm not saying you're reaching that conclusion, but many here certainly have. As for Henne, I personally don't think he can potentially be a franchise QB, but I do think he can be an Eli Manning level guy, whom you can win with. I'm not sure that makes him the "answer". It doesn't for me. For me that makes him the (or rather "a") stop-gap while we look for the franchise QB.
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Southbeach · Jan 29, 2011

rafael said:

Southbeach said:

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I think the problem with using these grades to draw too many conclusions is that they are just grading results. They can't apportion blame. I don't think there's any way they could do this, so its not necessarily a criticism of their process, but rather a caution as to what conclusions we can draw. For example, IMO the offensive system had much more of a negative impact on Henne's results than a positive one. I disagree that Henne's play was inconsistent. I saw the same level of accuracy and decision making from game to game and from play to play. The results were certainly inconsistent, but I think they varied mostly based on whether or not the running game was abandoned and how the defense was defending. And I think it was fairly obvious that Henne was better in certain formations and types of plays than others yet we seemed to have him work an inordinate amount of the time in formations and plays that he struggled in. I could say the same thing about the running backs. I don't have a subscription so I'm guessing, but my guess is that the backs graded out poorly as the results were poor. But I also feel that we've seen over the years that RB and RW had certain types of plays they were better at than others. For example, RW's best play by far is the counter yet for some reason we ran very few counters for him this year. Instead we seemed to send him outside far too often despite him not being as fast as he used to be. These are examples of the system putting players in positions where they are less likely to succeed. It isn't fair to then conclude that the players couldn't have had more success if they had been put in better situations. I'm not saying you're reaching that conclusion, but many here certainly have. As for Henne, I personally don't think he can potentially be a franchise QB, but I do think he can be an Eli Manning level guy, whom you can win with. I'm not sure that makes him the "answer". It doesn't for me. For me that makes him the (or rather "a") stop-gap while we look for the franchise QB.
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Ronnie was rated at #27, Ricky at #48. And paragraphs are a good thing.

I look at all the QB's who have taken time to develop, and have no idea where Henne will be in a year or two. I doubt that GOD does, and he has yet to return my e-mails on that question. LOL
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Southbeach · Jan 29, 2011

rafael said:

Southbeach said:

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I think the problem with using these grades to draw too many conclusions is that they are just grading results. They can't apportion blame. I don't think there's any way they could do this, so its not necessarily a criticism of their process, but rather a caution as to what conclusions we can draw. For example, IMO the offensive system had much more of a negative impact on Henne's results than a positive one. I disagree that Henne's play was inconsistent. I saw the same level of accuracy and decision making from game to game and from play to play. The results were certainly inconsistent, but I think they varied mostly based on whether or not the running game was abandoned and how the defense was defending. And I think it was fairly obvious that Henne was better in certain formations and types of plays than others yet we seemed to have him work an inordinate amount of the time in formations and plays that he struggled in. I could say the same thing about the running backs. I don't have a subscription so I'm guessing, but my guess is that the backs graded out poorly as the results were poor. But I also feel that we've seen over the years that RB and RW had certain types of plays they were better at than others. For example, RW's best play by far is the counter yet for some reason we ran very few counters for him this year. Instead we seemed to send him outside far too often despite him not being as fast as he used to be. These are examples of the system putting players in positions where they are less likely to succeed. It isn't fair to then conclude that the players couldn't have had more success if they had been put in better situations. I'm not saying you're reaching that conclusion, but many here certainly have. As for Henne, I personally don't think he can potentially be a franchise QB, but I do think he can be an Eli Manning level guy, whom you can win with. I'm not sure that makes him the "answer". It doesn't for me. For me that makes him the (or rather "a") stop-gap while we look for the franchise QB.
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In looking at PFF's grades per game, which ones would you disagree with?
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F.O · Jan 30, 2011

Ohio Fanatic said:

funny, Henne had a higher QB rating than his counterpart twice, and two of those other QBs have been discussed as potential replacements (VY and Palmer).
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To be fair, VY only played in one half of that game. In their head-to-head game last year Henne had a 66 QBR to Young's 103

And we all know Palmer totally stinks. Whoever thought he would be a viable replacement should be shot.

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