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Mel Kiper Jr.: Too soon for Dolphins to kick Chad Henne to the curb

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan7171, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    The day Ben goes on the field by himself and wins a game 1 vs 11, then you can say he won the game. Till then, football is a team sport, where individuals do not "win" teams do. Rafael Nadal wins, Usain Bolt wins, Tiger Woods wins, Ben Roethlisberger does not win, the Steelers win. Its a simple enough concept to grasp, and it has nothing to do with Chad Henne or my opinion of Chad Henne.

    Is Ike Taylor elite, Aaron Smith, Hines Ward, Heath Miller, James Farrior? They are all in their 3rd Super Bowl. Doesnt that make them elite? Probably not, they dont have flashy youtube vids. My bad, musta been my ignorance popping up again.
     
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  2. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    You have 20% of the league listed there. When your headache dies down, perhaps you should find a dictionary and look up "elite".
     
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  3. X-Pacolypse

    X-Pacolypse Loose Cannon

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    I don't care if it's against the TOS.

    [mod] The staff cares that it's against the TOS. [/mod]
     
  4. Shamboubou

    Shamboubou Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    This picture is pretty much what the draft and FA class remind me of.

    If you were starving to death I'm pretty sure this would be an amazing dinner, it still doesn't make it a good meal in reality.

    Some are so desperate here to get a new QB that they are grabbing at anything or anyone to "find the answer". The problem is by the time we pick in the draft and what's available in free agency, the leftovers that nobody wanted is all thats going to be left.
     
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  5. uab_phin

    uab_phin New Member

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    Honestly I would have a very hard time putting Brees ahead of Roethlisberger. I can't see many QBs succeeding with that Offensive Line. I understand that the Steelers as a team are absolutely elite, but you can't fault him for that and with Brees he's really neutered without Reggie Bush.

    This is completely my opinion, but based on watching the two this year I just think that Roethlisberger is better.
     
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  6. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan I have no sources

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    Henne made plays in that game. Quite a few of them. He was the playmaker. You know, like a good QB should be. And he is the main reason we won that game. That was by far his best performance. Trouble is, he has never duplicated that. That is likely because there just wasnt enough film on him yet for teams to know the best way to go about defending him. Now they know. And he hasnt had more than a couple of good games since. He definately hasnt matched that performance.
     
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  7. Robert Horry

    Robert Horry New Member

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    Detroit was as good if not better than his 2009 NYJ game.
     
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  8. WVDolphan

    WVDolphan I have no sources

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    I respectfully disagree and also suggest that he didnt even play well in the Detroit game when you sum it all up. He played well for a couple of qtrs I suppose, but for the entire game he was pretty much what Chad Henne is...... hot garbage. Especially when the game is on the line.
     
  9. Robert Horry

    Robert Horry New Member

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    Not really WV. Please show me instances where he was "garbage" during the game.
     
  10. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    So what you're saying is that you agree with me about not needing a top tier QB to win a SB? I guess you haven't noticed that our young defense is on the verge of becoming incredible.

    And while we're at it, again, please educate me as to WHERE this savior of a QB is coming from. You must have one of those magic lamps I've heard so much about. Can you get us an elite coach while you're busy rubbin it?
     
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  11. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Yeah, it has nothing to do with coaching, a devastating defense, and a balanced offense.

    Us Henne homers are just realists and understand football a little better than your 4 fingered self..... although you should work your way up to a fist so that your facial expression becomes even more intense.

    Might I also add that Ben threw for 17 TDs, 15 INTs, and an 80 QB rating during his 2008 SB season (24th WORST in the NFL in 08).

    You know what Ben's rating was in the 2006 SB? It was twenty freakin two. 22!!!!! 9/21 for 123, 0 TDs and 2 INTS. Yeah, these both SCREAMED elite.
    :lol:

    Those are 2 Super Bowls that the Steelers won IN SPITE of Ben, not because of him. If you're gonna use examples, at least use them of guys who are the REASON their team wins SBs. How did amazing Brady do during his perfect season when NE's offense lit the league on fire? I do believe they lost the SB to an inferior, non-elite QB, did they not?!
     
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  12. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Thanks for proving our point. Even going by your "stretched" QB list...... that's only 6 elite QBs. SIX. Do I need to spell it out bigger for you? SIX!!

    So where is this magical "elite" QB tree growing so we can pluck off ours and expand that number to 7?

    And by the way, the youngest guy on your "elite" list, Rodgers, was drafted in 2005. Both Rivers & your man-love Roethlisporker have been playing for 7 years. Brees is in his 10th year; Brady's in his 11th; and Peyton's in his 13th. So you do the math and tell me how often these guys pop up since you think they're so easy to find.



    You wanna know why us Henne homers haven't given up on him yet? Watch the video and see for yourself. He can make throws and thread needles that only a few QBs in the NFL can make..... and oh yeah, these were just his college throws. I can completely see where people say Chad cant throw deep and is scared to take chances with the ball. :glare:

    Now you tell me where Mallett, Locker, Newton, or anyone else in this draft show more potential in college than Henne did to where it makes sense to take them. The only one close is Gabbert, and we don't have a shot at Blaine.

    [video=youtube;bR2b2BI6sxg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR2b2BI6sxg[/video]


    Here's his 09 highlights before our staff neutered him...... in case you've forgotten the throws that he's made or potential he's flashed.

    [video=youtube;-nEYAnOnAj8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nEYAnOnAj8[/video]
     
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  13. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    You wanna see Henne succeed & perform?..... then get him some damn receivers who can get open and separate downfield (like he had at Michigan) rather than trying to make him into Penny 2.0!!! Then you'll see our QB emerge...... that is, if he's still salvageable after what this regime has already done to him.
     
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  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    "..what this regime has done to him..."
    ".get some receivers who can get open.."

    Nonsense, Henne has almost 30 career starts, if he has not figured this thing out as of yet, chances are good he won't, add in the Wr do get open, however anything over 25 yds..Henne is not accurate enough to hit them in stride.

    I'm not a huge fan of Chad Henne, but do keep it real TP, Henne is a limited Qb at this point in time.
     
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  15. Robert Horry

    Robert Horry New Member

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    Padre thats just nonsense. Henne has the accuracy to hit players over 25 yards in stride.

    The problem with him is that he has stone feet. He has no feet and its either you build an entire team around him and his statue game, getting an effective and dominant O-Line, or you ditch him.
     
  16. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    That's your opinion anyway. I don't believe it's based in reality.
     
  17. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Then why doesn't he? We were the worst in the NFL at connecting on deep passes and I watched every game Henne was simply not hitting the open Wr's deep down the field.
     
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  18. Robert Horry

    Robert Horry New Member

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    Um who is he going to hit downfield other than Marshall who has terrible short-area acceleration? Hartline barely beats man coverage and Bess is way too slow. Thats it. 2 options. Actually one since Marshall is double teamed every single play.

    And don't say oh this play in Buffalo and this play in Minnesota. QBs miss 4-5 deep passes a game. The problem is Henne has the option of 4-5 deep passes in 6-7 games combined.
     
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  19. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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  20. uab_phin

    uab_phin New Member

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    A few things I picked up in the Chad Henne highlights:

    Jake Long!!! Am I right?

    It seemed like Henne never really had to go through progressions, mainly because of the amount of times that he's throwing to NFL talents that just destroy who ever they are up against. Seriously the names Edwards and Manningham are now branded into my brain.

    The ball seems to come out immediately when his back foot comes down, not something we see now, but also shows why he struggles when that first guy isn't open.

    I think it's interesting that cover 2 has given him fits in the NFL, but seems to have little trouble with it here.
     
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  21. X-Pacolypse

    X-Pacolypse Loose Cannon

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    TheHomers.com: Where a quarterback with a with a career postseason record of 10-2 (including two Super Bowl wins) is not "elite."
     
  22. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Here is a link for you to discuss your favorite QB.
    http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/

    Meanwhile I'm still waiting to hear your plan.:jt0323:
     
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  23. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    That's the Steelers postseason record since 2004. I hate giving QBs credits for wins. They are not starting baseball pitchers and they have much less control over a team's win or loss than that pitcher does. Win loss records are even a flawed way to judge pitchers and it's even worse with QBs. Look at Ben's putrid QB rating in that first Super Bowl win. Can great QB play drastically improve the odds of winning? Hell yeah. But a million other things have to go right too.
     
  24. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Hey, Edwards is a FA. Let's reunite the 2. :shifty: It's sad that Henne had better & more appropriate talent to throw to in college than he does in the NFL.
     
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  25. Buckeyetroop

    Buckeyetroop Active Member

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    As much as I dislike the Steelers and Big Ben, there is no doubt that he is among the elite in the NFL. The guy makes plays plain and simple.
     
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  26. uab_phin

    uab_phin New Member

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    Sold! Marshall, Edwards, Bess, Hartline, and Young or Jernigan.... I mean seriously Diva syndrome aside we would scare people.
     
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  27. Ricky'sBong

    Ricky'sBong Reborn

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    people still care what Mel Kiper says?
     
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  28. X-Pacolypse

    X-Pacolypse Loose Cannon

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    THANK YOU!!! Sooner or later, common freaking sense prevails.
     
  29. Ricky'sBong

    Ricky'sBong Reborn

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    as much as I hate BigGroper, you have to admit hes a damn good qb. he played like crap against Seattle in the SB, but that aside you cant knock his playoff record.
     
  30. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    Well, I'm still waiting.

    Anyhow, was it Ben's 42% comp rate with 0 TDs, 2 INT's and a 22 QBR in his first Super Bowl or his 52% comp rate with 0 TD's, 2 INT's and a 35 QBR to get to the Super Bowl the games where he "makes plays plain and simple"?
     
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  31. uab_phin

    uab_phin New Member

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    I mean certainly you think he played well this year in the regular season? Outside of any playoff wins I would still put him in the top 5 QBs maybe you put him at number 6, but I would think the 6th best QB in the league makes plays.
     
  32. Ricky'sBong

    Ricky'sBong Reborn

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    come on man. I hate BigBen and I even I can admit hes a hell of a qb.
     
  33. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I didnt see anyone say he wasnt. But is he elite? I guess he is if you want to include the top 10 NFL QBs as "elite", but he's not Top 5 in anyones book, not that I know of.
     
  34. X-Pacolypse

    X-Pacolypse Loose Cannon

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    Look in the mirror.
     
  35. Ricky'sBong

    Ricky'sBong Reborn

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    well define "elite". is that winning in the regular season or playoffs?
     
  36. Buckeyetroop

    Buckeyetroop Active Member

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    Don't say that here, people will get mad at you..................Plus the Marine is looking up percentages that I gave him to research and its driving him crazy or crazier. LOL
     
  37. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'd go with Jernigan over Young if we could do that b/c Edwards would work as a vertical threat..... but yeah, that would be a perfect cast IMO. Add a threat at TE to it and these guys would threaten the entire field and Marshall would have plenty of space to make plays after the catch.

    If Henne had solid protection and a good outlet back, IMO he could play pitch and catch with those guys all game long. Our 3rd down conversions with Bess, Marshall, and Jernigan would be almost unstoppable.... especially if we had a decent enough ground game to keep us out of 3rd and longs.

    If we went that route, I'd almost want to go a stud RT, Nate Solder, with our 1st pick who would completely seal off the right side...... then I'd trade Carey and maybe next year's 3rd for a mid-late 2nd to use on Jernigan. Then use our 3rd on a playmaking COP back (DeMarco Murray, Quizz Rodgers, Todman, or Kendall Hunter.... in that order for me). I prefer Murray b/c of his ability to be moved around, but I'd love to have both Murray & Quizz. Then grab a LG, TE, and #1 RB in FA.
     
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  38. GreysonWinfield

    GreysonWinfield Release The Hounds

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    Here's the only stat of Ben's that matters 3 AFC Championships, 2 Superbowl wins & 3 Superbowl appearances. If he was as mediocre as you say the Steelers would have parted ways with him after Rape-Gate II. How about that Charlie Batch or Byron Leftwitch or Dennis Dixon?
     
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  39. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Nice to twist words to suit your argument buddy. When did I ever say he was mediocre? And by the way........ those aren't BEN'S accomplishments. Those are the Steelers' accomplishments!!! How many games did Pitt lose w/o Ben in the line up? Thank you. How many SBs did they win IN SPITE OF his 24th ranked QB rating and IN SPITE OF his horrendous QB play during their SB win over the Seahawks? Two!! I still have YET to hear you or x-Paco address this. Ben's 1st SB game was a poorer performance than Henne has ever had!!

    Biggest difference is, when Ben has a bad game, Pitt can still pull out a win b/c they have good special teams (we don't), have an outstanding defense that makes plays and creates TOs (we don't), have a good ground game (we don't), and have a playmaker (Mike Wallace) who can change the momentum of a game with 1 play at any given time (we don't). Pitt's backup comes in and wins BECAUSE OF THEIR ENTIRE TEAM PLAY. Our backup comes in and looks like he belongs in the Arena league.
     
  40. Ricky'sBong

    Ricky'sBong Reborn

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    so what are we debating here? you like Chad Henne I suppose? so if Chad Henne wore black and gold, the Steelers would keep on marching? if I have things confused, I apologize in advance.
     

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