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Offensive line needs?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Trowa, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    Ya think? LOL
     
  2. Ricky'sBong

    Ricky'sBong Reborn

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    I hate Ginn, but would have kept him. That trade for a 5th wreaked of Parcells ego.
     
  3. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Ginn's skill set was sorely missed this year, as was Smiley's. I think the collapse of of the run game caught everyone off guard, and the coaches never recovered. We went from "we're gonna pound you" to "Henne please save us" from very early on. Hopefully, the lesson has been learned.
     
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  4. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    And we try and find a real QB!

    The line is great, but until we find someone who can compete with Brady, Flacco, Big Ben, etc we will remain the third/fourth ranked team in the division. Even Sanchez, as inconsistent as he can be, has shown flashes of being able to rescue the team and make a key play when needed. We need it, or all the offensive linemen in the world won't save us.
     
  5. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Incognito would be great at center. In one interview he said he was recruited to Nebraska as center and then drafted by St. Louis as a center and accept for the 2006 season, when he played center for 14 games, for one reason or another, they needed him at another position.

    Did some checking with a good neighbor who comes from Missouri and is a big Rams fan. He gets each seasons games on DVD, which is cool, heard about it but never bought them. Anyway, he was kind enough to let me have his 2006 copy of the Rams.
    First game of the season Incognito played alongside Orlando Pace and was the left guard. They played Denver and Pace and Incognito did some job on their Dline. Their center was no better then Berger is and was injured before the first half ended, for the season. They replaced him with someone that got tossed around like a little rubber ball, literally. The play of the ENTIRE Oline went down hill from there in the entire second half.

    The next game was against SF and Incognito played center where again, he did a nice job. He stayed there until week 15 and then again, the RG was injured and they had no one to replace him and they switched Incognito to RG and brought in their backup, Brett Romberg as center. Can fans will remember Romberg as he played at Miami in two national championship games at center. To be honest and knowing Romberg was solely a center, Incognito,from what I saw of tthe games, did a better job then Romberg.

    Rams finished 8-8 that season and Incognito played center against some pretty decent defenses, Chicago, San Diego , Minn, Green Bay and Oakland. Believe it was Sapps last year in Oakland. In all the games I watched I came to one realization, this kid is a center and know what ? a dam good one. He went up against Williams from SD, Williams from Minn, Sapp and a huge Oakland interior D and Chicago and Green Bay were good too. In short without going game by game on the DVD, we have our center already on this team, really do. His shotgun snaps can be fixed in repetitive practive. Even looking at him in our Detroit game, he had a full week of practice and still only had one bad snap and as mentioned, he stopped Suh when Suh stunted over the middle. He gets to the second level on LBers quick from center and to me at least, Berger , by far, has no where near the talent Inocgnito has, its not even close.

    If we take Long at LT, Incognito at Center and Carey at RT we have a great foundation. I am sure Carey is going to be pushed in getting in shape this year, this HC job relies on that. Then if not, heck, try Garner there. Garner may not have the physical tools needed but he is a smart player, I think it would be a waste to try him at guard. Besdies, with Henne and his low trajectory passes, it would be a drawback having Nater there.

    Berger? That depends on two things. Berger became a starter this year, I am sure there is something in his contract that dictates one of two things, he either gets bonus money when the teams pay it out in Feb or the last year of his contract he gets x amount of dollars more. If the second one is the fact and his x amount of dollars more is a lot ? He may not be here in 2011. Another good reason rumor may be McQuistan may be a backup C/G. Although I would hate to see him at center, man.

    IMO, first pick of the draft is not going to be on a lineman, we have too many other needs on offense. I think we still go with Henne but have to get a vet in here to push him, somewhere, we have to find one. The QBs that are going to be left when we pick do not impress me one little bit, not at all. Heck, thats if any are left. There are a lot of teams in the top 10 of the draft that need QBs far worse then we do.

    Lets face it and I will admit, the first 3 quarters and into the 4th quarter, Chad Henne was looking pretty dam good.

    Ricky MAY be back but we need a good RB and I believe thats where they are going with our first pick, then receiver, then delve into other places of need from the 3rd round on. Ireland is going to do his due diligence and see who he can pick up in FA in regards to the Oline. I imagine if they move Incognito to center, which they should do, he will go after the best LG available, if there is one. John Jerry ? still not sold on this kid, rookie or no rookie. He gets his hands on people, yes, but after that he does little to nothing.

    As another posted stated and its true, With a below average RG, a hurting RT and an average,at times and below others, center in Berger, this Oline was doomed to begin with. I rewatched the Detroit game, moving the Oline around in the 4th quarter doomed us and Henne went into la la land. Watched Incognito pull from the LG position when they switched him and as I said many times before, Jerry and then McQuistan, were in his way. One play was so bad, Incognito pulled and McQuistan was pushed back so fast and turned around, Incgnito ran into the front of MCQ right around where the center position was. John Jerry ? dude got schooled in the Detroit game and even worse in the NE. Not sure if this kid is ever going to get it. Like I said, he makes contact and does nothing after that and the other half of the time, he is as easy to push around as a shopping cart

    edit, sorry if I rant, I am cursed with typing as fast as I think but hate spell check and sentence structure :)
     
  6. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Does every thread have to include Henne bashing? Can we have a thread about something else, please? :pity:
     
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  7. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    That Ginn guy sucks.



    Careful what you wish for.
     
  8. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    Pretty much every playoff team has an over the top guy. Jets, Falcons, Packers, Eagles, Patriots, Saints, Steelers, Colts. Its not about Pro Bowls as it is a threat on the field forcing teams to keep a safety a yard or two deeper than they would otherwise. We have the talent do move the ball, but no one to give them the extra yard so they have a better chance of YAC.
     
  9. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    The offensive line needs help. Period! They did well against the pass but there were many times they ran max protections which means less route runner.

    They pretty much sucked at run blocking all year.

    That means the personel in just not good enough.

    If I'm trying to fix the offense, I start right here. I highly doubt a Qb worth a damn will be there when they pick in the first and if not, it might be better served to pick a Rb. Ingram is a solid pick and there are plenty of interior lineman that can be found in the 3rd. One starter inside and a good running back and this team can complete.
     
  10. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I wrote this elsewhere so am essentially plageurising myself which means that at least Chris Cordero doesn't have to.

    If I was running the draft and FA this is what I'd do:

    FA: Obviously depends on the offensive co-ordinator and the style of offense they choose to run. But I wouldn't be averse to bringing Dennis Dixon over from Pitt. I'd also be watching every throw Matt Flynn made from high school onwards to see if there's another Matt Cassell there. And you know what, depending on the offense, I'd be inclined to at least work Brady Quinn out.

    I'd try and get Ahmad Bradshaw but the **** better stop fumbling - 7 fumbles when you're not the feature back is a disgrace. I'd also be carefully watching Sproles. I'd want to see why Jerius Norwood's contributions have waned in Atlanta

    At WR I'd want to inquire about Early Doucet and Anthony Armstrong who's a RFA. And at TE I'd see about someone like Kevin Boss.

    OL is the key, I'd want to see how the market looks on Mankins and Carl Nicks. Nicks is the best LG in the NFC, Mankins is the best in the AFC and the best overall. But If I'm Sparano and either hits the market, then I want one of them and I'm making Ross pay for leaving me pissing in the wind. I'd also be looking at Davin Joseph at Tampa, Harvey Dahl in Atlanta and Deuce Lutui in Arizona to play G. At C I'd be keen on Ryan Kahlil in Carolina, Rudy Niswanger in KC. I'd also be very interested in Chris Spencer in Seattle who can play both. I'm operating under the assumption that Nate Garner's getting in the mix with Vernon Carey.

    On defense I'd make sure we'd keep Paul Soliai, that's the biggest deal. I'd also look at someone like Gabe Watson. At LB I'd explore David Harris and maybe Bradon Siler for ST help and in the secondary I think we're sorted because the SS field is average in FA and I think Reshad Jones will end up there full time.

    In the draft, let's ignore traded and deal with what we have: I'd be going something like this:

    1. Mark Ingram - TB - Alabama
    3. Jerrel Jernigan - WR - Troy
    4. Steve Schilling - OG - Michigan
    5. Derrick Locke - TB - Kentucky
    6. Virgil Green - TE - Nevada
    7. Thomas Claiborne - OG - BC

    I actually fully believe Miami will investigate moving up to land either Blaine Gabbert, Cam Newton or Ryan Mallett although personally I wouldn't touch Mallett. I believe there are some serious off field issues surrounding him that will come out. Newton's upside as a passer is off the charts. His improvement is remarkable game on game, he's very accurate, strong armed. He needs some mechanical work but he can be very good. Gabbert is the best QB in this draft. His improvement is also excellent but he too needs work.

    But that's what I'd do.
     
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  11. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It depends what you do with Carey. Henning called him an 'enigma' which isn't necessarily a good thing. He's owed a lot of cash. You could kick him inside to guard and play Nate Garner at RT and Incognito at center with your FA pick up at LG. A line of Long, Mankins, Incognito, Carey and Garner works for me. I could also see a scenario where we picked either Stefan Wisniewski or Gabe Carimi in R1. Wis is a terrific blocker, great in space, strong, great technique, who can hook a lineman and turn his hips really, REALLY well. Carimi is a beast and could be a great RT.

    There are a lot of good guards in this draft and indeed in FA. If Miami can't fix it this year then they should be shot at dawn.

    Or by Dawn if she's available.
     
  12. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Gabbert and Mankins would be my dream off-season.
     
  13. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I really think it might be time for Carey to move inside. But if his play dropped only because of injury and they think he'll be fine then it, to me, is a must to get one Guard. I have one that can be had later on and that's Ben Ijalana. He did not face major competition but he started 39 straight games at Villainova. He played Tackle but he is only 6'4' so I think he'd become a solid Gaurd.
     
  14. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I know that Ingram is going to make whoever pick him very happy. Take him and you get instant production out of the Rb position for years to come. He'll be a solid workhorse and this team needs that big time.

    If, by chance, he is gone, I like Da’Rel Scott. Dude has some wheels and even though he runs a tad high, his vision is really good and he is so good at making people miss in the open field.
     
  15. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    not sure what makes us think that Vernon will work himself back in shape after his knees become healthy all of a sudden ..... the only way his knees get any better would be to lose some weight -- what do you think the odds of that are ..... i would finally cut my losses IF some team would give a top draft choice for him.
     
  16. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    Boom, agreed on Dixon .... made a similar statement a week or 2 ago .... regarding Flynn - i work with an old teammate of his from LSU, and he will try to sign with a team that'll give a shot to start - or stick with GB ...

    for the draft, believe we will try to find a legitimate playmaker in rd 1 ..... doubt it will be a RB even though it is a need at this point. I do believe that Ronnie can be a playmaker -- but not from the RB position as we use him. Equally, our starting RB for this next season is not on our roster today ....
     
  17. Ricky'sBong

    Ricky'sBong Reborn

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    When did Norwood blow his knee out? Is that ancient history? None of the qb's mentioned above strike me as guys who can come in and start in the NFL for anything other than short spurts. The Guards mentioned would certainly help upgrade, and I would be giddy with Sproles or L Washington.
     
  18. TenFinFan

    TenFinFan New Member

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    Offensive Line Needs

    [In the draft, let's ignore traded and deal with what we have: I'd be going something like this:

    1. Mark Ingram - TB - Alabama
    3. Jerrel Jernigan - WR - Troy
    4. Steve Schilling - OG - Michigan
    5. Derrick Locke - TB - Kentucky
    6. Virgil Green - TE - Nevada
    7. Thomas Claiborne - OG - BC

    I actually fully believe Miami will investigate moving up to land either Blaine Gabbert, Cam Newton or Ryan Mallett although personally I wouldn't touch Mallett. I believe there are some serious off field issues surrounding him that will come out. Newton's upside as a passer is off the charts. His improvement is remarkable game on game, he's very accurate, strong armed. He needs some mechanical work but he can be very good. Gabbert is the best QB in this draft. His improvement is also excellent but he too needs work.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Boomer:
    Some good thoughts. Mine are:

    Free Agency: Focus on RB; OL and TE. For RB, don't think Rickie will be back, or Ronnie either depending on his asking price.
    Would go for D'Angelo Williams from Carolina, Ammad Bradshaw from the Giants. For Offensive line, and perhaps our biggest need is Center-I like Ryan Kalil from Carolina again. He's great and we've struggled for consistancy on the center position for the last four years. If no luck there, try for Nick or Mankins for OG.

    Draft:
    Rd 1- #15--Select - Jake Locker-QB-Washington. Trade to Seahawks for
    their #25-(Rd 1) and #57 Rd 2.
    Rd 1- #25--Select - Blaine Gabbert, if still there. If not trade #25 to DEN for Tim Tebow.
    Rd 2- #57--Select - Torrey Smith-WR-Maryland.
    Rd 3- #79--Select - Ben Ijalana-OG-Villanova. (If Nicks or Mankins added as
    Guard in FA, pick a Center here, Best available between
    Wiesienski, Jake Kirkpatrick, or Christopher O'Dowd.
    Rd 4-#110- Select - Lee Ziambia-ORT-Alabama
    Rd 5-#143- Select - Greg McElroy -QB-Alabama
    Rd 6A#174- Select - Matt Szczur - WR - Vliianova
    Rd 6B#193? Select - Evan Royster- RB - Penn State
    Rd 7A#208- Select - Quentin Davie - OLB -NorthWestern, Bruce Miller - OLB UF,
    or Cliff Matthews - OLB - U of Souh Carolina
    Rd 7b#210- Select - Kirk Cousins - QB -Michigan State

    My thoughts.
     
  19. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Both Desean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin run a 4.31
    Andre Johnson 4.41
    Reggie Wayne 4.45
    Calvin Johnson 4.34
    Roddy White 4.45
    Greg Jennings 4.42

    Brian Hartine 4.53
    Brandon Marshall 4.57
     
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  20. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We need a top end center either through draft or free agency. It's a must in my opinion.
     
  21. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What, exactly, is our loses with Carey? Outside of his injury he has generally played at an elite(not good) level since he was resigned. He did so essentially at the weight he is playing at now. It might help his knee to weigh less, but it might not actually be an option? We know for a fact he has weight clauses in his contract, and we've not heard of him being in the doghouse for missing them.

    If Carey's knee isn't an issue, there's no reason to change anything. Spending resources to replace him because he isn't asthetically pleasing to you is a huge waste.
     
  22. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    pro-bowl caliber center & guard needed to rebuild the offensive line
     
  23. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    Vernon is lazy - period .... has slow feet and gives up on blocks -- it has nothing to do with 'asthetics' ... not really sure why a lot folks boast over Carey. Vernon gets good grades at RT - because almost always he goes against a SOLB that doesn't have any speed and is able to leverage his size and strength. Whenever he does match up against speed - he is terrible.

    Regardless of what i may think of him ... he has been knicked up the last couple years - and his weight, age and attitude all work against him either improving or working to get back to where he was -- it's just not who Vernon is. IF you believe that it is ... then give some examples in the last 3 years that support any type of work ethic.

    The point of this is not what Vernon has done ... but how you project him over the next 2-3 years given his current trend, and how much you value him based on that.
     
  24. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    We mostly agree on all you posted. It's a VG year to have needs on the OL. Carey is the key to the moves we make. There will be a salary cap, and we are paying him and Long a lot of money. Can we commit another huge salary to the OL? Does he have the speed to pull at G? With all the available talent, is it time to move on? I think we paid him a lot of money up front last year but, am not sure.

    Not knowing who will actually be FA's does cloud the picture somewhat.

    If we trade down, I also like the little I've seen of Castonzo, the OT from BC, and to a lessor degree Smith from USC. Opinion?
     
  25. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Most, if not all, of Careys guaranteed money has been paid. It was 14 mil guaranteed and he received a 12 mil bonus and a 2 mil roster bonus. Only hit the team takes is the cap hit for 4 years :(
     
  26. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Miami has a LOT of money tied up between Carey and Long. Carey has what kind of knee problem ? no one knows but its evident the young man put half his guaranteed money down his throat and into his stomach, add in the " mystery " knee problem and who knows what we have or will have for the next 2-3 years.

    Long, OK, whats with his shoulder ? knee ? again, no one really knows if its surgery, no surgery, labrum, rotator, both ? All mysteries that need to taken into account. Again, what will we have for the next 2-3 years if major surgery is in the plan ? No one knows. Team is not going to let the info out and there is no real way to find out who had what procedure done, if any.
     
  27. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    Thanks for the info. I agree on Jackson and Maclin being "burners." The others are great WR's but, IMO, not guys running by people.
     
  28. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    Thanks, I thought that's what we did to take advantage of the uncapped year. You lost me on the 4 year hit.
     
  29. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    IF Carey can come back healthy, he is a top 5 RT and that's where I want him. He has been playing with little or no help at RG for years, and doing a hell of a job until this past year.
     
  30. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    the remaining salaries they scheduled to pay in 2011 12 13 14 not sure of the amounts but I believe they go against the cap each year. Maybe I am wrong on that.
     
  31. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    No, the only cap hits are for guaranteed money. Normally teams were able to pro-rate signing bonuses over 5 years on the cap. Last year was the exception. Non-guaranteed salaries mean nothing on the salary cap.
     
  32. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Virtually none of that is true.

    He doesn't almost always go against a SOLB. Not every team we play is a 3-4, and in the modern NFL teams quite often move their pass rushers from side to side, and they do it against the Dolphins more frequently because Jake Long completely blanking their elite pass rusher isn't helpful. Mario Williams, for example, played the overwhelming majority of his snaps vs. Carey in 2008 and 2009. Not to mention he does face quality speed rushers on the right side on its own merits.

    Furthermore, if you look at Vernon Carey's grades on Pro Football Focus, he's got a grand total of two games where he graded out negatively in pass protection when healthy... In 2008 vs. Oakland, and this year against Pittsburgh. If you include the games he played with injury, it's 6 total in a 44 game span.

    He's been an elite RT for virtually all of that time period, which sort of involves uhh...work? Or the fact that this year marks the first start he's missed in his career, which sort of involves work ethic?

    Your argument rests entirely on fat being synonymous with lazy, and that really doesn't work.

    He's a 29 year old player at a position that generally plays at a high level into the mid 30's. He's injured the same knee twice, but that doesn't inherently mean it's a chronic problem or career threatening.
     
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  33. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    I was encouraged by the play of Incognito at center (sans the couple of shotgun snaps). Especially the way he was able to consistently get leverage on Suh. The drop off in the OL play when he went back to G and Berger came back in was immediately apparent.

    An athletic pulling guard should be enough to bring this OL back to relevance.
     
  34. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    the formula is simple::deadhorse: the same way Sparano destroyed the offensive he rebuilds it
    1) pro-bowl caliber Center
    2) pro-bowl caliber Pulling-Guard
     

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