I've been saying for some time now that if Vontaze Burfict is not the best pure linebacker in college football, then it's Tank Carder...and that if Tank declares he's in the first round. He showed why today. What a game. Wisconsin was stupid in many ways though. Carder is just one guy, whereas Wisconsin has three studs in Carimi, Moffitt and Konz, with more studs running behind them like Ball and Clay. Make the game about your best taking out their best. Too often Wisconsin was running that toss or sweep stuff with guys pulling from Carder's side out to the front side, basically trying to run away from Carder and make him be ineffective that way. But, Carder's too good for that. You're not going to keep him out of a play just because you're going away from him, he's aggressive and he finds the ball. On those runs he consistently penetrated the hole left by the pullers and knifed into the backfield where he affected the back while he was trying to track to the outside. And on pass plays of course he'd be left matched up on Tolzien, find where he's going with the ball, either penetrate and dominate on pass rush, or get in the passing lane. Wisconsin was having PLENTY of success running straight up the middle and relying on their studs on the OL to make things real tough for Carder to stop the run between the tackles. They were wearing out TCU with that stuff. I said on Twitter they're blocking so tough with those runs between the tackles that I wouldn't be surprised if TCU starts wearing down and Wisconsin busts something wide open. Immediately after I say that, two big runs by John Clay sets Wisconsin up for that final TD. The plan was WORKING. It was slash versus smash, and what happens when it's slash versus smash? If you survive the first three quarters and it's close in the 4th quarter, smash starts to turn the tide in their favor, those 4 and 5 yard runs become 10 and 20 yard runs, etc. So why in god's name did Wisconsin go AWAY from that with the two point conversion? They had the game in hand! They had the TCU defense on the ropes, tired, even Gary Patterson was telling his own coaches and players get ready because the D can't stop them. He must have been THRILLED to see Wisconsin call a pass play on the two point play. You run that thing between the tackles, rely on your best players Carimi, Moffitt and Konz to get their hat on TCU's best player Carder, and for good players like Clay or Ball to keep away from Carder...you tie the game and go into OT. Instead you pit Scott Tolzien versus Tank Carder, a guy that will not play in the NFL versus a first rounder. Well, we saw how that worked out.
Agreed. And if my memory serves me correctly, I seem to recall rumors that the Dolphins were shopping around for a speed receiver around the trade deadline. That could have been to light a fire under Hartline's ***, who subsequently did play better, but I do think it more likely that they really want a more vertical threat there, and it wouldn't shock me if we went for a receiver early either.
You alluded to why I think Ryan Williams is the complete package for this offense. He can run away from people and bust out big plays, and he can make tough runs between the tackles, making people miss and breaking tackle attempts. It's not Ryan Mallett's ball placement that concerns me most. It's his total wilting when pressured in the pocket, and his SELFISH tendencies, which show up off the field, and on the field, after the whistle, and before the whistle. He doesn't ever throw the ball away. He'd rather throw a totally stupid ball straight to a defender than throw the ball away. He doesn't throw with touch, ever. Ever. Why? Because that's not who he is, he's a guy with a rocket arm. People in the locker room do not like the guy. They often show it on the field. His attitude shows up on the field in his handling of them as well. I won't cross him off my list. But, I've got guys I want more. They are Andrew Luck, Brandon Weeden, Blaine Gabbert and Carson Palmer. Probably also Cam Newton, though I'm still not 100% sure about that. It's hard to plan around that position as far as we should be walking out of this draft with this guy or this guy, and this draft with this guy or this guy. The QB position takes such strong priority that making sure that position is taken care of could preclude your ability to get some of those guys.
Speaking of Cameron Kenney this kid is a JUCO transfer that is starting to come on and really get it, and he reminds me of a smaller, younger Miles Austin. He looks like he runs a little over 6'0" and 200+ lbs, but he's got real leg strength and athletic ability. He flashes run after the catch. He's a senior and though his career hasn't been productive, sometimes at a school with as much skill position talent as Oklahoma you just have to be patient and wait your turn. I mean in 2009, you'd put Cameron Kenney and Justin Blackmon in exactly the same category as one another. Blackmon sees an opportunity to replace Dez Bryant, and so he works hard and develops a rapport with the guy that is taking over the starting QB job, a guy I just happen to feel has NFL franchise quarterback skills, and of course he's in Dana Holgorsen's Texas Tech system...and he breaks out with monstrous production. Cameron Kenney still has to deal with the presence of Ryan Broyles who reminds me of Santonio Holmes...and of course Landry Jones is NOT the quarterback that Brandon Weeden is...takes him a little longer. Not saying Cameron Kenney IS Justin Blackmon, he's not, it's just putting things in perspective if people wonder why he's not super productive and yet has all this talent.
Well, y'all know me. I would really rather not draft a wide receiver in the first round. I don't think it is warranted or needed as much as some other positions are. The positive is that the prospects that might be there, with the exception of Baldwin, do not appear to have the diva personality yet. I wouldn't snub my nose at drafting Julio Jones or Justin Blackmon, though it goes against everything that I believe about that position. Talk about overpaying for a position. Two first round picks and a monst contract to Brandon Marshall, and you turn around and use a 1st on a wide receiver in the next draft? I'd much rather use that pick on a more valuable and more needed position. The interior OL really needs to be fixed, as does the running back posiiton. I am very hesitant to use a 1st on a runner though, because in a two pronged attack, I don't know that you will ever get proper value out of a first round runner. Personally, I would focus on the top offensive tackles - Derek Sherrod, Anthony Constanzo, Gabe Carimi, and Nate Solder, playing them at guard initially and then flipping them out to right tackle to replace Carey in the long run. If we fill the left guard spot in free agency and keep Incognito at center, then I'd almost have no choice but to choose between the runners and the receivers. If it came down to it, I would probably take Mark Ingram over any of the receivers and Ryan Williams. That guy is just incredible with his balance and vision. He's a power runner and is the type of runner Tony Sparano will want. At quarterback, I do not think there will be one available that will be worth taking that high. Quarterbacks tend to get overdrafted, and though Ryan Mallett probably rates in this area, he will get drafted higher by a QB needy team. Cam Newton should not be a first round pick based on his quarterback skill right now, but he will be one because some team will be convinced that they will be able to do with him what Andy Reid has done with Michael Vick this year. In a perfect world, Miami will be able to trade down to recoup their 2nd round pick that they foolishly traded away to get the diva Brandon Marshall, who will throw every quarterback that doesn't throw him the ball at least 20 times a game under the bus. With that pick, they should get someone to help the interior offensive line. I'd look at DeMarcus Love and Orlando Franklin in a trade down situation.
Two 2nd round picks for Marshall. You're doing that thing again where you slightly and 'accidentally' fudge the facts to exaggerate your point.
So while I'm a big Wisniewski fan (I think he can play G or C at a high level), I was very impressed with Pouncey today from Florida (not necessarily his snapping). He was running all over the place and getting to the 2nd level. And with how his brother has performed for the Steelers, I can only imagine that someone will be very happy with his play at G if they get him.
Emmanuel Sanders. I was sitting with a friend and was wondering the same damn thing regarding the run. I don't know why the hell you would run those stretches and off tackle. Made no sense to me. You GO with what WORKS. You don't go away from it. Hell, they were averaging 10.9 YPC at one point and then they started losing momentum and it dipped to like 6.2 or something along those lines because they went away from what worked and got outsmarted by themselves. Regarding Carder, he is very instinctive IMO. He's also got very good FBI. Certainly impressed tonight. It stops there IMO.
Pouncey pulls really well IMO. I don't think he's good as his brother though. I thought Maurkice was a stud.
IMO Mallett is a typical boom/bust type with what appears to be a high potential..... but IMO will struggle early on b/c I think it will take a few years for the game to slow down for him. The team who drafts him should be prepared for a bumpy road for these first 2-3 years IMO...... however with a good cast, good coaching, and a little patience I feel he has the ability to become something special. Length to impact is what worries me. He probably has a higher upside than Henne, but it concerns me that he might be coming into his own a year or 2 after the rest of our offense has ascended, which could slow us down as a whole. Just b/c he has a lot of talent and has 1st round consideration doesn't mean he's not a developmental guy. He definitely makes for good discussion.
This. Added: How much will it help your rookie QB's development if he doesn't have the best cast to succeed with. I'd hate to see Mallett stuck in this offense right now. Hell, it made Thigpen look like he belongs in the Arena League. Personally, I'd rather have the other pieces in place first (if I have the opportunity to do so and also have a young QB whose jury is still out) so that when we do draft someone, his development will hopefully be quicker and we'll have a better gauge of his potential compared to our deal now-- trying to guess Henne's future after this year's entire melt down. If we're going to need the surrounding cast regardless, then I'd prefer to have them in place first (unless one of the top QBs available completely embody EVERYTHING that we're looking for). Who knows: maybe after addressing the offense this year, we'll have very few team needs and be in position to trade the farm to move up for a guy like Luck.
I absolutely love Hankerson, but I just don't see him as the type of WR we need. We need a downfield threat and while Hankerson has made some plays downfield for UM I just don't think he has the speed to be that kind of player in the pros.
I respectfully disagree with some of this. Granted we did fork over some money for Marshall.... but we could sign Jones or Blackmon as a rookie for a fraction of what it would cost us in FA to get a player of their caliber, not to mention I feel there's a higher premium placed on playmakers than on RTs and Gs. IMO, sooner or later you gotta let it play out on the field and let your playmakers do their thing rather than making sure all your t's are crossed and i's dotted regarding high level of execution and too much attention to detail. I'm all for the trenches (on both sides), but not when it comes to taking a T at #16, paying him LT money, then playing him at G or RT instead. Julio is definitely 1st round consideration b/c you and I both know he impacts the game on run blocking when he's not running routes. Blackmon would be worth the pick if nothing more than to allow Marshall to be one of the best WRs in the league that he is, and who we pay $40 million for. I don't know about you, but I want to see a return of investment on the contract, and it wont happen unless we get a playmaker in here to help him out. Not to mention, it doesn't matter how good our Oline is if we have a dynamics problem on offense that is hampering our ability to score. I'm with you on Ryan Williams. I guess he's our consensus choice if we can trade back. Anyone not want him, speak now or forever hold your peace. I agree with the mindset of using the pick on a more valuable and more needed position....... however I like to think outside the box for this one and deem "playmaker" as it's own "position" regardless if it's WR, TE, or RB. 1 need one badly so whomever the top playmaker is when we select should be our biggest priority IMO. Running back is more important of an issue, so I hope we sure it up in FA so we don't have to worry about reaching in the draft, especially if it costs us not drafting a player of extreme value in the process. I'd love to trade back, grab Ryan Williams 1st, the top G/RT available in the 2nd, Greg Little in the 3rd, and maybe Owen Marecic in the 4th to replace Lou if we feel he's not cuttin it.
I missed the game, so that's good to hear. I'm a Rodney Hudson fan but I'm not sure how he'd do in this offense.
That's why I'm not on board with Michael Floyd. There are a lot of nice receivers whom i don't even want to look at b/c they'd just give us more of what we currently have.
This receivers group is so deep, it would be a shame to waste the #16 pick on one of them when we have Marshall, Hartline and Bess, and could get legitimate talent that could impact the offense in Round 4 or even Round 5. It seems like every day I like this draft more. If Ryan Broyles comes out...and I have a feeling he will...that will add some serious talent to the mix. That leads to more players falling. Jon Baldwin, Jerrel Jernigan, Niles Paul, Titus Young, Greg Little, Vincent Brown, Denarius Moore, Armon Binns, Cameron Kenney...there is no shortage of talent that could make an impact, and one of these guys will fall far enough to get him on the cheap. You could even take a Brandon Saine and convert him, make him a guy that stretches the defense. This feels like a good year for getting receiving talent on the cheap. And I'm also high on the RB position's depth, depending on what juniors come out. We know Mark Ingram is all but out. Shane Vereen is out. Mikel LeShoure could come out. You have guys from top to bottom that could impact the offense, from DeMarco Murray, to Daniel Thomas, Kendall Hunter, Delone Carter, Bilal Powell, Derrick Locke, Evan Royster, Allen Bradford, DeJuan Harris or Johnny White. The QB problem is our #1 concern and we should be focusing our resources on fixing that problem. You HAVE to focus on getting Andrew Luck, Brandon Weeden or Blaine Gabbert in the Draft, or if you can pull Carson Palmer from the Bengals then you do that. This is not an option, nor is it time to keep *****footing around the position. No more making 2nd round picks with the position based on experimentation (Pat White) or simply by picking the next best guy available (Chad Henne). Have some conviction about the guy you think is it, and go get him.
Disagree pretty strongly. On most fronts. There's a lot of talent here. Simon and I and some others talked about it last year, the talent that was set to come out in 2011 if the juniors we thought would declare do end up declaring...is staggering. Most of those juniors still look like they're going to declare, and some others we didn't think would, are...and look good. This is shaping up to be a very good Draft.
If he's still on the board in the 5th round then Kris Adams from UTEP is the wideout we should draft.
The Penn St / Florida game was brutal to watch but I watched most of it just for those two guys. I came away impressed with Pouncey... very impressed. I thought Wisniewski did a good job of getting to the 2nd level but I also saw him get driven back like a blocking sled more then a couple of time which is concerning to me. Much rather have Pouncey of the 2.
Just some thoughts on the last few pages: AJ Green IS a top 5 pick. He's a remarkable talent and that combination of size/speed/hands and route running puts him in that Andre/Calvin Johnson echelon. Ryan Broyles is one of the 5 best WR's I saw this season and I've seen almost 100 FBS teams already so that's a lot of wideouts. He, AJ, Blackmon, Greg Childs and Alshon for those wondering. Rod Hudson is a great LG but whilst he gets to the 2nd level as well as anyone in the nation, he's not very good there. He's off his feet an awful lot. Dunno how anyone can doubt Mark Ingram. People were saying the same about Emmitt Smith. Oh and I don't think Ingram's like Ronnie Brown AT ALL. Talked Tank Carder up at the start of this thread as a stone wall 1st round pick. His game last night was the same as he's been all season. Watch the Oregon State game to see him in coverage a lot. The kid is brilliant. Mike Pouncey is a terrific guard prospect. Plays with great shoulders and back, terrific leverage guy and great on the move. I think this is a very strong draft. Especially at WR, TB, G, LT, QB. Oh and Gabe Carimi might be the best LT in the nation. He's a poor mans Jake Long. He plays with much better balance than a year ago and I hark back to the two games he had against Adrian Clayborn and Cam Heyward. Dominated two first round picks two weeks running.
I've been impressed with Carimi and though I think Clayborn had a better game against him than maybe the stat line will show, and Cam Heyward should be a Defensive Tackle, Carimi's been a lot better than a year ago when he got destroyed by Chris Carter. But it's tough to put him as the best LT against the likes of Derek Sherrod and Anthony Castonzo.
I actually think Clayborn's stat sheet was better than his game. He got a couple of takedowns when Tolzein was scrambling, that had nothing to do with Gabe.
Well we are royaly screwed. No shot at gabbert-luck-newton and Not much in terms of free agency. I would even consider favre bc I wont watch if henne is back
This times 100. Enough of getting the same type of QB pickups. Time to go out and get a legitimate top flight QB prospect. If you have to move up, do it. I'm tired of pinning my hopes on under the radar backups and second tier prospects.
Henne and our 1st to San Fran to move up for Gabbert? Who's on board? Maybe they can give us Ginn back in the process.
I wouldn't think San Fran would make that trade considering they need a QB as well. I know you love Henne, but really at this point I find it hard to believe anyone thinks he is anything but a backup. If we are talking trade, it will be with a team that doesn't need a QB. Maybe a Detroit or Tennessee.
My guy I want is Ryan Broyles. Dude can stretch the field and give us a ton of options on offense. Thing is I think he is going sometime in the 2nd. I feel like if we can get back into the 2nd and keep a 1st and 3rd, then we could draft a sick offensive class this year with the RBs and WRs available. Anyone know where Justin Blackmon is projected?
I'm torn between Julio's physicality and Blackmon's pure receiving skills. Too bad we can't have both to compliment each other.
Blackmon plays like a pro. He can run all day and not get tired, which is especially impressive when you consider that offense they ran where they basically ran a play every 20 seconds like clockwork, rather than waiting longer in between plays. For such a big guy to have the ability to run and run and run all day, I bet Mike Martz is begging Chicago's front office for him right now. He comes back to the football about as well as I've seen at the college level. He has extraordinary body control and pretty good eyes for the ball in the air. He has a natural ability to run under the deep ball, really get under it, and that doesn't just involve speed, it involves a level of control in your running. He runs after the catch really well, very physical with natural instincts. What is impressive is late in the year he started to develop a pretty bad ankle problem, at one point the way his ankle got fallen upon after a catch just looked nasty, you'd think it was broken or something. It looked like it hurt a lot, but he came back in the game, and he was EFFECTIVE when he came in. Multiple games he was injured enough that you'd think he was just a decoy, but he wasn't...he continued right along in his streak of 100+ yard and 1+ TD performances. Blackmon could have caught for even more yards with how well Weeden generally threw him the ball, but he had several drops on the deep, over the shoulder ball during the year. Plus from what I've seen he draws a LOT of pass interference. If you applied NFL pass interference rules to him in college and tallied up the yardage in flags he drew, I have no doubt he would be responsible for over 2,000 yards through the air.
Blackmon's just as physical as Julio Jones Todd. Julio is a funny guy to watch because there's lots in his game that to me says warning signs and yet he's a great player. He's slow into his stride, but then strides 3/4 and 5 are quick. He looks slower than he is, yet he runs away from people. He's not a great route runner. He doesn't gather to cut on comebacks which you see a lot of kids do, but he does sink his body very early on those routes where he's working back to McElroy. On things like posts, he doesn't accelerate out of his breaks; he's fairly quick in and farily quick out but not explosive like AJ Green or Jernigan or Broyles. Yet he gets open. He also doesn't use his body to fake out DB's. He boxes out corners very well and he'll go up and get the ball although he doesn't look like a great leaper. He's a clearly a really good player, but just sometimes I can't work out why.
I tell you who I quite like is Alabama's James Carpenter, the LT. He's got an NFL future, possibly on the right side. And every time I watch Mark Ingram - when healthy - he blows me away. It's SUCH a cliche but he's like a more powerful Emmitt Smith. It's interesting though and I'd love to do a statistical analysis - I wonder how many more yards he gains out of the pistol than a conventional I formation. When he has that bigger gap between handoff and the LOS, he just looks a better player. I disagree with someone on here who said that Ingram doesn't improve our offense. I disagree. I reckon he's going to be a late 4.4 runner. Plus, he NEVER goes down on 1st contact. Spent the afternoon watching Stefan Wisniewski in isolation. Pretty sure Chris and Richard are the same but when I have a game with a lot of prospects, it can often take hours to watch because you're constantly winding and re-winding, winding and re-winding on the same play maybe 15/20 times to see how 4/5 players react, what they do, etc. Some games I like to ignore the best prospect on 1 teams offense and defense and just spend the entire game watching them in isolation. Man Wisniewski's good. He might be the best technician I've seen all season. I hate watching offensive linemen but there's a bundle of really nice guards that I like. He's probably the best. I love the way Pouncey pulls, I love the sheer aggression of the kid Henry at Nebraska, the pure strength of the kid at Illinois, the physicality of Moffitt and Claiborne, but Wisniewski has it all. He gets his body turned and hooks a defender better than any G in this draft. This is a fun draft.
Between A.J. Green, Jon Baldwin, Michael Floyd and Julio Jones...and now of course Justin Blackmon...I have long considered Julio to be the one that I'd be most nervous about making good as a pro. Even more so than Baldwin, amazingly.
Yeah I agree. And yet he delivers. You know what I mean tho about him not doing the little things and yet he makes a lot of plays. I wonder whether it's that they put him in position to make plays or whether we're just underrating him.
