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Tom Brady - Greatest QB in NFL History?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bumrush, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. Omaha

    Omaha Season Ticket Holder

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    but by that logic shouldn't aikman been the qb of the 1990s?
     
  2. patsfanNH

    patsfanNH New Member

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    You REALLY need to read that post again, I said I wasn't blaming the D and that they had held the Giants O in check all game.. I then stated that last drive was a nightmare as the Giants had EVERYTHING go right for them to get the TD.. 9Dropped INT, houdini act escape 4 defenders by eli and the amazing catch by a wr no longer in the league..)
     
  3. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't matter but I think marino would have one 5 superbowls on those 49er teams
    The pats ranking were 24th, 7th,and 9th which is not bad according to nfl .com
    And brady is kicking our *** I wasn't talking about head to head I am talking about all the divs titles and superbolw rings.
    My whole point is I think brady is great and you don't but being fair is to not include montanna on any top ten list if you are not going to include brady.I can give you the exact same argument about joe.
     
    patsfanNH likes this.
  4. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Not really. Elway won one less ring but the mystique was much larger. Aikman had 14 more TD's than INT's and 32k yards. Putting him ahead of Elway would not make any sense. Besides, people actually attribute the Cowboys success to the Leading rusher in NFL history, a great Line, and Michael Irvin. Everyone attributes the Broncos success to Elway even though he couldn't win until Sharpe and Davis got there and made it a complete Team.
     
  5. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    I agree with the Marino thing. i also think Marino wins multiple rings on the Patriots of the 2000's.

    The pats defenses ranking for points allowed was 5th, 1st and 2nd, respectively.

    I do think Brady is great. He's smart, accurate, works hard, and plays to win. However, he is not "all time" great. I keep Montana on my list because he was a better athlete than Brady and his overall stats are better.
     
  6. patsfanNH

    patsfanNH New Member

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    Your stats are all messed up he was 9-5 before LAST year

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_w...England_patriots_with_tom_brady_as_quaterback

    So right now he iss 11-6 9and if you take out that game they litterally through away when Cassel almost bet you in the 2nd half)
     
  7. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have never seen a source for the Bill Walsh quote. He may have said it, but nobody has sourced it. At least nobody has sourced it that I've seen. Until then, I'll throw that in with the rest:

    Bill Gates - 640k ought to be enough for anyone.
    Einstein - compound interest the most powerful force in the universe.
    Mark Twain - The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.
     
  8. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    They are currently 10-7 and not 9-6. The difference is still the same...3 games. I'm not counting the 2008 season when Brady was hurt.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00/gamelog/
     
  9. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    You figure out the NFL.com stat page?
     
  10. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Marine and Patsfan sound like an old married couple.. Jeez I'm having flashbacks to arguments with my ex :D
     
  11. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Rush Limbaugh - Slavery had it's merits :shifty:
     
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  12. patsfanNH

    patsfanNH New Member

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    lol Your math needs fixing the Pats swept the phins in 03 as well and are 1-0 this year. SOOO... It is 11-6 RIGHT NOW...
     
  13. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Marino
    Manning
    Unitas

    No order at all. Those guys are just amazing in my mind.
     
  14. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Well, at least we can all agree that Chad Henne, if he lives up to his potential, is on pace to be the greatest QB of all Time...
    :pointlol:
     
  15. patsfanNH

    patsfanNH New Member

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    Hey I admitted I could be wrong I have a 4 and 3 yr old fact I have any memory is a minor miracle :)
     
  16. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Here is a tip. go to NFL.com. Select stats. Then team stats. Then see what defensive stats pop up.

    here is another tip. Go to this link, and see what they say about who is the top ranked defense. Then check their stats. And see what stats they actually rank at the top.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5962286

    Keep on laughing, you're just laughing at yourself right now.
     
  17. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    You edited your original post.

    You said that "everyone on earth" uses the YPG method. I proved that pro-football-reference does not.

    You said even if a person were to go by PPG the Patriots defense would be ranked 20th and not 13th and you then provided a link to nfl.com. You didn't even know how to read the stats from your own link.

    I pointed out that if a person went by YPG the Patriots offense would be ranked 11th in the league, but if you go by PPG their offense is ranked 1st. I asked you if you thought there were 10 other offenses better than the Patriots. You ignored that part.

    You have since altered your original post. You are now trying to change the subject. I am still laughing. ;)
     
  18. patsfanNH

    patsfanNH New Member

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    Mrinephin,

    I was the one stating that keep your posters seperate will ya lol
     
  19. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    What?
     
  20. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I just went thru the first ten years as starters for montana and both brady.Here they are
    Brady 34545 yds 259 tds 63.6 com pct
    Montanna 33118 yds 226 tds 63.6 com pct
    Once again how can you keep montanna on the list and not brady.
     
  21. Pariah

    Pariah Revolutionary

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    So are you saying that you and a very few others are the only people without bias? Because almost every list I have ever seen, and every conversation I have ever heard, has Brady in the top 20 if not 10 or higher.
     
  22. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    Your post backs me more than it does you.

    Montana's first 10 years were from 1979-1989. I don't know how old you are, but in those years defenders would rape WR's and eat QB's all day long. I watched Montana get hit so hard so many times that a few times I honestly thought Montana was dead. Even so, Montana's numbers are pretty equal to Brady and his league that has given him his own rule.
     
  23. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    In the 1990's many fans had Aikmen on their top 10 list. "Present time" is a major factor to some people choosing a list like that.

    I just don't see Brady knocking off any of the current top 10 all time great QB's.
     
  24. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes I did. And the post you quoted, is the one I stand by.

    Hyperbole. The owner of PFR is part of the 1% that includes you ;)

    Yes I do. Hence my edit within seconds of the post. Because i was rushed at work, and realized that when you click sort by points (because you know, the NFL, the league itself, doesn't sort by points, kind of a 800 lb gorilla right there, isn't it) it sorts it by highest to lowest. So when I realized it, I took it out, because you were right, not wrong.

    That is fine what you think or I think is the best offense. fact of the matter is, the NFL disagrees with you. And so does ESPN. And so does almost everyone else. It isn't about what I, or you think is the bst offense. it's what the term top ranked offense means. it's YPG.

    I did not "since alter my original post." Hah, look atyour own post two minutes after mine, where you quoted my post. It was changed immediately when I saw you were right about the 13th ranked ppg defense. Since I said you were wrong, and you weren't, I took that part out. There was no alteration. I didn't change my argument. Everything else still stands.

    http://forums.thephins.com/showthre...-NFL-History&p=1376396&viewfull=1#post1376396

    Fact of the matter, you're saying that the NFL, who ... runs the NFL (duh) is wrong. Ok that's fine. But when you say "top ranked defense" 9 times out of 10 the person you are talking to will think you are talking about total defense, because that's the way it is.
     
  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Actually the rule was for Peyton Manning (another reason I find manning so overrated). it was a playoff loss to Brady that caused Manning to whine like a little girl. So they changed the rule that offseason. But it was manning complaining about the Patriot's "topped rank defense" ;) in the playoffs.
     
  26. Pariah

    Pariah Revolutionary

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    And I knew as soon as I saw this thread Marine would be all over it!

    :tongue2:
     
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  27. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    Too funny.

    Hyperbole? You mean you, right? You're the one who claimed the entire WORLD used YPG. There is more than 1% of the WORLD population that uses PPG.

    You were rushed, huh? Too fuuny!

    I'm not saying anyone si "wrong". I'm saying that PPG is a better way of evaluating how good a defense or offense is. There is just no denying that. I asked you a question and you still never answered.

    According to YPG the Pats offense is ranked 11th in the NFL. What 10 offenses do YOU think are better?
     
  28. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    Actually, the rule was made after Brady had his knee shredded.

    I have no idea what you are talking about. Saying Manning is overrated is akin to calling the Great Wall of China a "fence". lol
     
  29. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    ... and a damn fine fence it is, too!
     
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  30. GreysonWinfield

    GreysonWinfield Release The Hounds

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    Nothing except 3 rings, the ability to make average players look all pro. Yeah all myths. Yeah Brady is good but its a dink and dunk offense. Yeah Brady is good but only because Moss makes him look good. Yeah its the system. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How many HOF players has he had around him?
     
  31. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    There will never be an end to the "GOAT" conversation because the game never ends.

    Tom Brady is most certainly in the conversation, however. I'm also jealous of Giesle.... I mean, that hair...
     
  32. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    What you just said here is exactly why I don't think Brady is the GOAT QB.

    Belichick.....

    Belichick and his system is much more responsible for Brady's success than Brady is responsible for Belichicks success.

    In fact not only do I not think Brady is the best of all time, I don't think he's the best in the NFL now.

    I'd take Manning in a heartbeat over him and I'd also take Brees before him as well.

    Take him out of Belichicks system and you'd see a different QB.
    Not saying he'd be bad. He's obviously good. However, his talent is inflated by where he plays and for who he plays for.
     
  33. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Tom Brady without a doubt, is one of the greats
    more importantly
    the Patriots with Bellichek & Brady have been the team of the decade

    would like to see the next ten years dominated by Miami football


    HeadCoach + QB = NFL Contender
    think about it... :yes: lets get busy


    I refuse to make excuses for our failures or their successes. it is what it is
     
  34. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hyperbole. Yes, As in, I WAS USING HYPERBOLE, not you.

    Now you are moving the goal posts. If you think that points allowed is the #1 indicator of how good or bad a defense is, that's fine. I never took issue with that. You can go back and review. it's when you quote "top ranked defense" the definition of that is, and always will be, total defense, i.e. yards per game. I don't think either, by itself, describe the best offense. Both need to be taken into account. Someone with a lower PPG, but a much higher total offense, is in fact the better offense. Because they control the ball longer, it shows a more consistent offense, one that can't be disrupted so easily. Do I think the Pats have the 11th ranked offense? no. Do I think they are #1? Well The eagles and chargers can both claim to better offenses.

    I think both (and other factors) need to be taken into account. including balance.
     
  35. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    People want to say manning the best ever, and I say no way hoe zay. He's choked way to many times. About the rule, I thought you were referring to the 5 yard DB press rule, since we are in a thread talking abuot the greatest passers, and eras and all that.

    http://rambleonsports.com/2010/08/30/crying-colts-are-at-it-again/

    That rule.
     
  36. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    My post is from 1981 to 1990 when montana was the starter.You are the one who said montanas stats were better than bradys not me.I proved that wrong now you have another excuse.I give up you just can't admit you are ever wrong.You cannot learn if you already know everything apparently.
     
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  37. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    There's no solving this argument. Statistics don't really work because of different eras. In today's game interceptions are so much bigger than in past eras - even the 80's and 90's - so QB ratings don't tell the entire story.

    I agree with Desides that generally speaking we tend to focus on the "latest and greatest" and ESPN is every bit the culprit here - they WANT the present player to be the best ever and guys like Mike & Mike or the statisticians there will manipulate stats to make it look like one player is the best ever.

    There are only two players that I would say are clearly the best ever at their position in the NFL:

    1) RB - Jim Brown ... no one has ever touched him in terms of domination relative to other RB's of his era. His statistics are great even from an all-time perspective, but particularly when you compare him to his era. He is the Babe Ruth of NFL RB's.

    2) WR - Jerry Rice ... This is closer, but I still think no one really comes to his level in terms of route running, big plays, consistency, hands, etc. He was more dominant as a WR in his era than any WR I've seen. And, his professionalism was second to none in NFL history. Moss' talent may have been as good as Rice but he just doesn't compare to him in other areas.

    But, not to derail the conversation ... as to QB ... I think Brady is probably top 5. He is the leader of that team. If the Pats win it all this year, he is easily top 5, probably top 3 all time.

    I'd say, Unitas has to be there in the top 3. Starr was great but he had such a tremendous team at Green Bay ... Unitas was the offensive coordinator and called all the plays. Something to be said for that.

    Brady is ahead of Marino (my all-time favorite) and clearly ahead of Favre (I would put Favre down in the lower part of the top 10). I'd put Tom somewhere in the top 5 with Unitas, Montana, Marino, etc.

    Otto Graham has to be there too - 7 championships!
     
  38. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    excellent post
     
  39. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    thank you Da Fins for not mentioning Joe Namath in your post. :up:
     
  40. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    Manning hasn't choked. I'll assume that you, like some others, think that Manning has played badly in the post season? You think that Manning is the reason his teams have lost more games than the Patriots with Brady in the playoffs, right?

    Well, Manning has better numbers, in the playoffs and in the regular season, than Brady. Why is it, do you think, that Brady can throw 3 INT's in one game and still win and Manning has to be nearly perfect for the Colts to win?
     

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