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Hennes lack of progress

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by bcfinfan, Dec 26, 2010.

  1. NFL2102

    NFL2102 New Member

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    Don't forget our defense that allowed 24 points making it a close game.
     
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  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    inching to 100k posts
    We'll see, when I opined in Club about it being the most important offseason since 2001 I was not speaking to the air, there are huge decisions to be made that will effect the Franchise for the next 5 yrs.
     
  3. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    And IF we had a ground game that was worth a crap, we wouldn't be forcing a young QB to throw INTO THE WIND late in the 4th qtr when we have a lead. I'm not sure how people don't understand this.

    This tells me that the coaches have more faith in our QB than our running game, and considering the circumstances, that's pretty pathetic.
     
  4. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Hit the guy right in the hands not hand,hands.Should have caught it.
     
  5. NFL2102

    NFL2102 New Member

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    It was too high to be caught.
     
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  6. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    This has me confused. When you say conservative play calling, I instantly think running the ball, which Miami has NOT done. I just looked up the stats...in the last 5 games, including today's meltdown in Miami, Dan Henning has called at least 169 passing plays...and I say at least, because the stats do not show how many times there was a pass play called that broke down and Henne had to scramble. 169 pass play in 5 games...that's an average of 32 passes per game versus a dreadful average of 25 rushes per game in comparrison.

    Henne could probably have been a great NFL quarterback, but he's had terrible mentoriship and his OC has done nothing to set him up for success. When you ask an inexperienced 2nd year starter to throw the ball 40 plus times a game, you have failed him. I blame Henning for Henne's mediocrity and I blame Sparano even more for not addressing it. Ricky Williams and Ronnie Brown...two all pro running backs who if used properly could have made defenses respect Miami's running game and open up potentially deep passing plays to your multi-million dollar aquisition in Brandon Marshall...but did we do that? Nope.

    Dan Henning calling pass play after pass play and defenses recognizing this, dropped into pass coverage and in this aspect, this was the only thing Henne was coached well on...if it's not there, don't force it...take the short play...but because all we've done is pass pass pass, Henne's had nothing BUT the short pass plays.

    And I'm really starting to question the defensive genius of Mike Nolan as well. 27 points scored on HIS defensive scheme...by the slapstick comical Detroit Lions????? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????????????????
     
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  7. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    A lot of the defense's problems were due to Dansby being out IMO. Middle of the field was open country all day. Wake has slowed down and no one has picked up the slack. Hopefully we'll be adding some playmakers during the offseason.
     
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  8. NFL2102

    NFL2102 New Member

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    I am as well, it may be just a bad week for them but they played pretty bad today considering Dansby and Carroll were the only ones out.
     
  9. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Now let me understand this. We have been rebuilding this team since Saban was first hired. Next, Cam Cameron was hired to rebuild the team. After one year of Cameron. Parcells was hired to revamp the team. Now three years later. You are willing to accept another FIVE year rebuilding plan. Well as a long time season ticket holder, (over 40 years). Who happens to be 60 years old. I have no interest in waiting another five years to get this thing turned around. Heck, I will be lucky to live that long. Obviously you are young enough to wait the five years needed. Hopefully you will also want to purchase the four season tickets I have no interest in purchasing if the Dolphins actually follow through on your five year plan. That way I can sit at home and watch the Dolphins play. Instead of spending thousands of dollars a year going to the games while thousands of so called Dolphin fans sit at home watching the game for free. I have spoken to a lot of season ticket holders who sit around me at the games. Many are thinking about not renewing their tickets after this season unless major upgrades are made in coaching and talent. Unless Ross is willing to spend the money necessary to turn things around immediately. There is a very real chance that most of the Dolphin games next year will be blacked out and all those, "stay at home fans", will not be watching the games unless they actually pay the money and go to the stadium to watch it. Whether I renew my tickets or not. I would have no problem with the games being blacked out. Perhaps this would be the only way to actually gets the stands filled for the games. Having only 30,000-35,000 fans actually show up for the games is depressing and the lack of crowd noise is certainly detrimental to the play of the Dolphins at home. Jets and Patriot
    fans were louder at Dolphins stadium this year than Dolphins fans were.
     
  10. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    When we went up by 10 points, I told my wife the game wasn't over and I bet my wife henne would throw a pick. She said he would probably throw a pick 6. Damn her.
     
  11. bbqpitlover

    bbqpitlover Well-Known Member

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    You are an optimistic because I don't even think the ball made it back to the line of scrimmage. Nice clock management by Henne at the end.
     
  12. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I don't care what the reasons or excuses are....we just lost back to back to back to Cleveland, Buffalo and Detroit. Detroit just rolled all over the defensive genius of Mike Nolan and Dan Henning failed to exploit the weaknesses of Cleveland and Buffalo's defenses to put points on the board to win

    As Bill Parcells did say one time...you are what your record says you are. And we do indeed suck...and it's breaking my heart...again...and again...and again...

    I just had a feeling this WHOLE Bill Parcells experiment was going to fail...with him in the front office and not on the sidelines...and seeing how short his stints in New York...then New England...then New York again...and then Dallas were...I just KNEW he wasn't committed to winning and establishing a dynasty as his prodigy Bill Belichek has in New England.

    If we keep Sparano, then we better axe Henning...and drop a heavy threat on Nolan. If we scrap Sparano, then please God...all I want is a head coach and a GM who want to do nothing but reincarnate the days of Don Shula.
     
  13. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    The CB was at the pinnacle of his jump and it still hit his finger tips. He had no chance to catch it. Henne had a small window to make a throw but the DB made a great play.
     
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  14. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    When you cant use 3/4 of your playbook because your talent is inept what should the offense look like? Our RB's are old and slow, we have no deep threat, our QB telegraphs his throws resulting in batted balls and INT's. There isn't a coach in the league that could win this way. If there were quick fixes to this they would have been made already. Our problem is the lack of talent on offense. Sean Hill played better for the Lions with a broken finger than Henne did. This is a joke. I keep hoping that Henne will come out in one of these games and really do well but he, and the rest of these guys truly suck. It's safe to say that this is bigger than Henne, everyone; including but not limited to Henne, including the coaches ----- suck!
     
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  15. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    That's what happens when the D gives up a 53 yard screen pass TD late in the game. :wink2: Henne got us the lead. The defense did NOT help to preserve it. The defense gave the momentum to Detroit in 1 play.
     
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  16. SCall13

    SCall13 ThePhins QB

    I'll say it: Bess slipped. Pretty obvious. It happens to a lot of QBs - not just Henne. Receivers slip, get tripped up, etc. and that has led to many an interception by all of the GREAT QBs. The pass would have been a completion had Bess not fallen. By no means would that have been picked otherwise.
     
  17. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I just rewatched the play. Bess had COMPLETE position on the pass before he slipped by a few yards. Levy would've had to gone through Bess to make the INT if Bess didn't fall. That was either a catch or a PI call, no ifs ands or butts about it, regardless of what you say, Ozzy.
     
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  18. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Josh Freeman has less to work with? He has a better Oline. He has 2 young playmaking WRs who can stretch the field and a playmaking TE. He has outlet backs who can make big plays, and he has a good ground game behind him. I'm sorry, but Freeman's situation is like a trip in the park compared to Henne's. He also has a more aggressive coach etc.
     
  19. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I don't ming Ireland. I think he's done pretty well. Some gaffs, but they all do. Keep him away from the 2nd round of the draft.
     
  20. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Marshall has stated numerous times how much he likes Henne. Henne gets him the ball. It's not Henne's fault that Brandon can't make plays b/c we have nothing on offense to help Brandon out.

    I'm not worried about Long and Brown not having confidence in Henne; I'm worried about Henne's confidence in Moore, Wallace, Shuler, Curtis, the weak ground game, the dismantled Oline, and play-to-lose Henning/Sparano who are again calling a crappy game when we have the lead. (More 4th qtr playaction when we're trailing? Seriously?!)
     
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  21. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    And he had 3 4th quarter comeback/game-winning drives last year with arguably a worse receiving corp.
     
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  22. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Where is Chad Henne's Kellen Winslow? Mike Williams, Arrelious Benn, Legarrete Blount? Cuz I swear I saw Roberto Wallace, Mickey Shuler, Bess, Marlon Moore etc out there today. Marshall is our best WR and he runs a 4.6. Ronnie and Ricky are old and slow. We have no playmakers and no running game. Hard for any QB to succeed like that.
     
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  23. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    They're not "to blame", but they are definitely part of the blame. It's impossible for them to not be. Yes, Henne had one of the best ground games last year based on its rankings across the board. This year it's near the bottom in every category. There's a night and day difference in our ground game's performance. Our surrounding cast right now is down right putrid. A QB can only become as good as the personnel around him allows him to be. So many people say that a great QB can make the team and doesn't need talent to be good. I'd like people to go throughout history and show me examples of this. Show me ALL these great QBs who did well with little talent. Not many come to mind. In fact the opposite seems true-- that great QBs seem to have MORE talent around them, not less.
     
  24. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    You're leaving out Cadilac and Spurlock. Those guys still make plays too. :tongue2:
     
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  25. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The difference between our team and other good teams is QB. I can't see how that isn't glaring.

    I don't understand where all of this nonsense about why we continue to put the game on Henne's shoulders and that is the fault of the team and coaching staff. I mean, he doesn't throw those interceptions, he doesn't put himself in that position. It's that simple.

    I don't blame the first INT on Henne. I think that's a clear show of just not having a lot of work with Mickey Shuler. Henne thought he was going to continue his route and he didn't. The second INT was just clearly a poor throw. Whether Bess stays up or not, it's a bad throw in tight coverage. It's a chance that didn't need to be taken.

    That is my real issue with Chad Henne. He is not a smart QB. He is not calm under pressure. I really think it's admirable the guy battled through the injury and I have to imagine he's playing a little unhealthy right now--but who isn't? Everyone is dinged up right now. The areas he made poor decisions due to trying to make a play, aren't the times you do that. Checking down to Ronnie Brown on the last play of the game, isn't the right time to be conservative. He has a VERY poor feel for the game. I don't think he understands the game very well either. There is no doubt that I'm sure he prepares his tail off and works hard. I don't think he does a very good job in-game of understanding things. Maybe that is a trait of the offensive staff also. However, I don't think that's coachable. That is instinct. His instincts aren't very good. He's horrible with any slight pressure. Once that happens, the play is dead because he puts his head down looking to get down and out at first sight.

    I'm done with Chad Henne. I've been on that train for the past few weeks. This "IT" that people say he doesn't have translates very easy to me...it's instincts to make a play, it's the ability to react to down & distance within a game, it's being smart, it's making plays when they are there.

    You want to know where our big plays are? You want to know why we don't have quick strikes? It's because the guy, YET AGAIN, missed Brandon Marshall on a play that most QBs make. The play design was great, the route was great, the execution of everyone was good. Yet, the throw was terrible.

    He just isn't a smart QB, nor is he a talented QB. Does he have a good arm? Sure. So does everyone else. So do a ton of QBs that aren't in the league. Give me a smart QB, who can be accurate and understands how to win football games, and I'm good. I didn't need the flashy offense in 2008 and I don't need it in 2011, so long as they win games.

    Today that game was managed to win the game. I don't fault Sparano for that. I fault Dan Henning for putting it in the hands of Henne and allowing him the chance to make a mistake. I'd have taken the no gains all day long, so long to run the clock. But, Dan Henning gave his QB the chance to make a play. He gave him that opportunity to make the correct decision. Now, Chad didn't make the poor one on the first INT, but the second one was terrible. Every time you give him the opportunity to make a play, he fails terribly. He has to be aided by everyone...even on the TD today. That was Davone Bess making that play. There was no positive in Chad Henne there. It should have been intercepted.
     
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  26. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    The ONLY thing "glaring" are posters who want to blame Henne for losing b/c you've ALREADY made up your mind about him and are looking for EVERY excuse possible to validate your feelings.

    1. Bess is ABSOLUTELY indirectly at fault for the pick 6. That had nothing to do with Henne. NOTHING. His ball placement was right where it needed to be. (unless you think Henne reached his go-go gadget arm downfield and tripped Davone)
    2. Inexperienced Shuler completely stopped his route or else the ball would've hit him between the numbers.

    You take away these to mishaps by BESS & SHULER, and Henne would've been the SOLE reason we had a chance to win the game b/c no one else on the field f****** helped. NO ONE!

    The only thing this game proves is that you can't have a consistent, efficient, mistake free offense when you do NOT prioritize your skill position players and enter a game with 2 undrafted rookie WRs, a guy who came in off the street, no COP back, and no #2 TE. Oh yeah, and no consistent ground game. :wink2:
     
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  27. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Umm....are you seriously saying they have more talent than we do? Other than Blount, that's about it.

    Look at the statistics and they aren't that much different I can tell you that. And if you're not a statistics guy, you'll see we have plenty of opportunities for big plays. How about that one Henne missed today on Brandon Marshall open in the endzone on a double move? Henne is GUARANTEED to miss a big play in the passing game once a game. He does it every game. The plays are there. What is the fascination with needing a guy that runs a 4.2 40? Oakland has 50 of them, yet only two of them are worth a hill of beans in McFadden and Ford. We have the ability to make the big plays! Our QB is terrible at getting them the ball!
     
  28. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Disagree whoeheartedly.

    If you consider biased as looking deeper into a sitution then fine I'm biased.
    Also I don't believe I've seen anyone involved in these debates ever state they are a "Henne fan".
    I've seen plenty state that they believe his issues are MORE to do with his mentoring and how the staff handles him rather than his actual talent level.

    Big difference and when you come down a little after the season you might grasp it.
     
  29. Frayser

    Frayser Barstool Philosopher

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    And he'll be close to doing that same thing this year. The difference is 1) he's not breaking tackles like he has in the past, 2) we lack any deep threat to stretch defenses and open things up for him, and 3) Dan Henning refuses to open things up with 3 and 4 WR sets, instead insisting on the same tired bunch formations that don't help Marshall at all.

    And while you were focusing on Marshall, you didn't address any of the other players mentioned.
     
  30. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Your exact words were you are a hypocrite if you dont blame the defense. That's bullcrap and calling me a name that you could clearly have said differently to get your point across but it's all good now.

    I don't blame the damn defense one bit! It's not being a hypocrite whatsoever! Not one post did I say this loss was all Henne's fault but to me, you're trying to lay blame elsehwere when it was all about the offense in the 4th quarter. Henne is a big part of it but there is also blame to go around on the line, for stupid penalties and the coaches for playing scared and more....on offense
     
  31. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    You're forgetting the Pats game (down 14-0; winning drive late in 4th). Detroit had the number 2 pick last year. The Rams had it the year before, slick. I see your memory is right on par with your ability to understand the game.
     
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  32. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Bess went to plant his foot when he should have just slowed or kept running. No way that pass is a completion because the Lb had a bead on it....
     
  33. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    :sidelol: you don't watch much football do you? At least watch some highlights on ESPN or something.

    Here's a news flash: fast guys aren't necessarily bad players. They can actually be fast AND good. I know that's a hard pill to swallow, but it's true. Maybe you just don't understand the dynamics of a quality offense and what's needed to create space for it so that your players can actually MAKE PLAYS.
     
  34. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Plant foot= pulling up to stop his route
     
  35. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    This is right on the money.
    Look no one is saying Henne dosen't have some issues, but the OC is MUCH more glaring an issue.

    Anyone see how the Lions were moving "Megatron" all over the place today using creative ways to get him on mismatches with our secondary?
    Like he even needs mismatches but they scheme it anyway. That is smart use of the talent you have.
    That's just Marshall, we have other talent as well that just dosen't get utilized.

    Henning lines up Marshall head up all day long and tells him to go beat your man and make me look good.

    It's pathetic.

    Henne may not grow into a good QB but IMO the book is still open on him but it's not on Henning.
    Henning has boggled the mind all year long.
     
  36. Frayser

    Frayser Barstool Philosopher

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    Are you seriously trying to suggest that Anthony Fasano is even in the same league as Kellen Winslow Jr.? Marshall might be the best receiver of the bunch, but Benn and Williams are a better combination than anything we can throw out on the field. And yes, it's more than statistics. It's how defenses have to play you given the weapons you have. And I guarantee you opposing defenses have to account for Winslow a lot more than they do for Fasano.
     
  37. bluehaze

    bluehaze New Member

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    Parcells said he was unhappy with Henne's developement, he did not however indict Henne. If you actually think about it it could have just as well been an indictment on the coaches he selected. If it was as easy as swapping out a QB with Pennington on the roster I doubt Parcells bails but likely something more difficult as switching out some coaches who are also his golfing buddies and personal friends could be the cause. Theres more to every story than meets the eye.

    No doubt Henne has issues but if the problems with this team only involved switching out our QB while keeping everything else intact, I'd be willing to bet money Parcell's would still be here.
     
  38. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    It was sad. I was in that section. And while I wouldn't chant it, I thought it. I get no joy...
     
  39. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Sure 3 step drops would do him well but it would probably piss these guys off who keep defending him to no end that they don't go deep enough. The deep passes in a 3 step drop will hit there hands at between 15-25 yards downfield...
     
  40. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    1 guy does NOT make a team. Marshall is NOT a playmaker by himself!!! He becomes a playmaker ONLY when he has guys around him who can help create space for him. When you surround a slow playmaker with slow guys who arent a threat to pick up chunk yards, then you pretty much tie Marshall's hands behind his back and he becomes NOTHING MORE THAN A POSSESSION WR, which, the last time I checked, does NOT qualify as "one of the best football players in the league"! How else would you explain his YAC being half of what Bess, Fasano, or Hartline's is? It's b/c he has NO talent around him to allow him ANY SPACE!
     

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