The rule is waiting three years to assess a team's draft, which makes sense. My question is what everyone realistically expects to have, after that three years, from the picks. For me, I'm looking to have three starters, one of Pro Bowl quality, one VG starter, one solid starter, and some help in depth/special teams. From the 2008 draft, Long is the All Pro, Langford is the VG starter, I have to give Henne and Merling another year. Bess is more than a solid starter in the slot, and Carpenter, along with Hilliard were the ST's help. Well Done! I have to wait a year for the 2009 draft but Davis could be the Pro Bowler, Smith the VG starter, Hartline the solid starter, and Clemons adding to the mix. No problems. Not fair to even bring in 2010 but, Odrick, Misi, and Jerry could be the three. What does everyone else expect?
FellowMember Southbeach: in regards to the up-coming draft obviously, it will be basically an offensive draft needs: QB, Center, PullingGuard, RB, TE could throw in a ReturnSpecialist
I guess no one read the post. I am asking what you expect from any draft, nothing to do with next year.
Depends on who is running the show. If it the current regime then I expect a disproportionate amount of pics wasted on corn fed linemen. All while ignoring our need for explosivness on offense and a seem busting TE.
are we talking off season or draft? i only ask because you brought up bess who is an undrafted free agent. i'm hoping we trade someone and get our 2nd round pick back. its gonna be hit or miss without our 2nd round pick. i'm really only expecting 1 starter and an improved special teams and a little depth at other positions from this next draft. i'm usually optimistic, but i'm learning to be a realist. i hope we can pick up a couple more undrafted free agents that pan out and 1 or 2 veteran free agents that will make an impact.
Hahahaha! Poor Southbeach, thread derailed right from the start. I'll bite though, I think we've had the best drafts since Jimmy Johnson era these last three years. Can't wait to see how they'll try to spruce up the offense next year.
My expectations are 3 starters (never expect a degree of quality just that they start), 2 depth players (1 most likely someone who shouldn't be depth whether they are under/overperforming), 2 players gone within 2 training camps. And that's assuming 1 pick in each rd.
Exaggerate much? He's an adequate back-up at worst. He's cheap, and has at least some rapport with our offensive players. We could do a lot worse with our #2 or #3 QB (and even #1), so there is plenty reason for him to be here next year.
You know the one thing that's proven true with these guys is that they almost always pick premium positions at the top of the draft. What position they pick this year if they keep a first rounder will be a surprise since a regime looking to win now and avoiding get canned likely won't take a QB and the other premium positions they can add to are taken. A 3-4 OLB? Perhaps but I think they'd rather pickup Merriman and group him with Misi. WR?
Gotta side with Stitches and Alen on this one. Henne’s worth keeping around. Bring in serious competition in the form of a free agent and a rookie, bring in a new QB coach and a new OC, and let things work out. There’s absolutely no reason to cut Henne.
If for just a second Miami would go on the attack with Henne the same way they do when they're behind his stats would make people change their minds. Orton, Campbell, Palmer, McNabb, both Smiths, Sanchez, Hill, Clausen, Skelton, and Collins are not better than Henne. The decent guys in there are afloat right now because their teams actually push the envelop when they're ahead or they have some really huge stats when behind like Orton and Palmer. Henne has had a bad year but I'd still rank him somewhere around the 22nd-24th best QB in the league with an unbelievable number of things that can be improved upon both on his team and in his game. He's the best we've got and Andrew Luck's not walking through that door right now.
Unless we're talking about Andrew Luck, I don't see a quarterback in teh first round that I would be completely sold on and yes that list includes Cameron Newton.
I add undrafted FA as picks since the draft was cut to 7 rounds. We should also add in traded picks, like the 4th rounder for Fasano and Ayadele.
Although I expect/hope for more, we pretty much agree. In spite of the picks, who did not work out, we have done what I realistically wanted in the past three years. If only that would have been the case in the 3-4 prior years. I understand the disappointment of others in bad picks. However, when you look at the overall picture, our last three drafts have been pretty good.
It's far from realistic to think all picks will work out. This is the reason I posed the question of what expectations are. I believe we are doing well.
Right now I would give the 2008 draft a grade of "C". Jake Long is a definite ,"A". Even though I would have still taken Matt Ryan over Long in the 2008 draft. Kendall Langford has been solid on the defensive line and deserves at least a, "B". Phillip Merling has been a disappointment so far and he is no better than a, "D" draft pick at this time. Chad Henne looked in the beginning that he just might be the QB the Dolphins have been looking for since Marino retired. Recently he has not shown any improvement. Right now I would rate him as a,"C-", with the grade trending lower, not higher. Lex Hilliard is the only other draft pick left on the team from 2008. He hasn't been able to win a running back position and he plays mainly on special teams. Our special teams are basically terrible. So I would give give Hilliard nothing higher than a, "C-" at his point in his career. Murphy, Parmele, Thomas, and Dotson are no longer on the team. Therefore they would all be rated as, "F". The only reason I even give this draft an overall ,"C", grade is because this was the draft where the Dolphins picked up Bess as a free agent. He has turned into one of the best slot receivers in the game and I definitely rate his grade as an, "A". To me this was a so-so draft and if Henne ends up not being the long term answer at QB. This draft will turn out to be yet another in a long line of mediocre drafts for the Dolphins. I would rate the 2009 draft as a, "C-", at this time. Vontae Davis looks like he could turn out to be one of the better corners in the league. He still makes mistakes and like most of the secondary. He is no ball hawk. Right now I would grade him as a solid, "B". Sean Smith has been up and down this year. First he lost his job to Allen and then he was able to regain the job. I think this had more to do with the lousy play of Allen than it did with Smith's vast improvement. Smith has continued to be up and down as a starter. There is still a lot of room for improvement. Right now I would grade him as a, "C+". Brian Hartline is okay as a receiver. But he is nothing special. Grade so far for Hartline, "C". Chris Clemons is playing safety far better than the safeties the Dolphins have had in the secondary the past two years. He still isn't the big hitter we need back there and like everyone else in the secondary. He doesn't create turnovers. Because of his play this season and his definite upgrade of the position. I would give him a grade of, "B-". The rest of the members of the 2009 draft are no longer on the team.Turner, Folsom, Gardner, and Nalbone receive grades of, "F". Pat White receives the special grade of, "FF--". This may have been one of the worst picks ever in the 2nd round of the NFL draft. The 2010 draft class is still a wide open question mark. Odrick and Edds who were expected to play a great deal this year have been injured all season. Koa Misi has been up and down but recently his play appears to be on the upswing. John Jerry appears to be having trouble with his blocking assignments so he is having trouble getting playing time right now. Nolan carroll, Reshad Jones, and Spitler are still fighting to remain on the team in the future. McCoy is the one draft pick not on the team at this time. The grade for this draft is, "incomplete'. Only time will tell how many in the 2010 draft class will make an impact for the Dolphins in the future.
any draft that produces two starters is considered good. three is very good. four is outstanding. I agree that one starter should be very good, almost pro bowl quality if not pro bowl quality. Depending on Odrick and John Jerry we will have achieved the two starter minimum every draft. the question about last year's draft is will any of the draftees achieve the Vontae Davis or Jake Long production? Misi seems like he'll be close in a year or two but I would really look at Nolan Carroll and Reshad Jones next year and add them to the mix. And who knows, maybe AJ Edds has something to add
What? The guy puts his own offense in bad situations with his crappy ball placement and decision making. Go watch the Alabama game as one example.
Let's not forget that we signed our offense aka Dan Carpenter in 2008 as an Undrafted Free Agent. Which gives us 4 at least average starters from that amateur class, and 6 guys that have been starters. That has to be better than an average draft class from that year. That is a 4th and a 5th round pick starting in their second year in the NFL, I feel like your expectations are a little out of wack. A C- for a draft class that has given us 4 second year starters, 3 of which look like they could be mainstays in our secondary, is a bit unfair. Again that has to be above the league average. Plus before we go complaining about missed draft picks lets not forget how far we've come from our draft woes of the past.
This phrase just confuses me, I promise you this is not sarcasm, I would actually like to hear why. Outside of his pure arm strength he just hasn't impressed me.
My expectations: An immediate starter in the 1st round. If it's a Top 10 pick then I would expect the player to be Pro Bowl caliber and hopefully an All Pro. If you cannot find a new starter in the 1st round then you either suck as a GM or you have a very deep team already. I would also expect the 2nd round pick to start. Maybe not right away but within a year or two. And I would expect that player to be an upgrade over who is currently starting at the given position. In the 3rd round it depends on the position and how early you pick. If you're drafting a fullback or a kicker for example then they better damn well start. If you're picking a wideout or a cornerback late in the 3rd then they will probably need time to develop. The 4th round is the black hole of the draft IMO. There are way more misses than hits in the 4th round. I don't know why but it just seems like the round of most wasted picks. In the 5th and 6th rounds you start to find the hidden gems. They guys that everybody else overlooked. I think it's fair to expect one gem every three to four years. As well as some special teams players. In the 7th round I don't expect anything more than special teams players. Occasionally you find a gem but it's like hitting the lottery. These are the rounds where I would love to see Jeff Ireland deviate from his prototypical types of players. That is the way you find guys like Marc Mariani, Syd'Quan Thompson, Julian Edelman, or Sammie Stroughter. As far as undrafted free agents go I would hope to get to a place where we don't ever find guys who can make the roster because we are so deep and so talented that they don't stand a chance.
While I understand your questioning my grade of C- for the 2009 draft. My grade is based on the entire draft. Not just for the players still on the team. That is why I choose to give each player a grade. I think giving Clemons a B- at this stage of his playing career is fair. As far as the C for Hartline goes. I think on most teams he would be no more than a third or fourth receiver. Since Miami has limited receivers who are ready to play at the NFL level. This is really the only reason I think that Hartline is a starting receiver for them. I don't think his play to date has been anything but average. So to me average is a C. I almost gave this 2009 draft class a rating of D+ because of the draft of Pat White. The fact that he was cut after one season and no other team was interested in picking him up, clearly shows how terrible this pick in the 2009 draft really was. To miss so badly on a high 2nd round pick certainly can only lower the overall grade for the draft class. I respect those who might feel that my grades are too low. This entire subject is open to each individuals own rating system. My ratings may be too low for some and not low enough for others. I was merely giving my opinion on the drafts which was the request of the OP who started this topic. Personally I hope that all the players still on the Dolphins from the last three drafts eventually all turn out to be,"A", players for the team. But right now I feel that most of the players have a lot to prove in the NFL before they reach that level. If others on here don't agree with my grades for the individual players and the overall drafts. I certainly can accept that.
WOW, a C for 08? Are you joking? I've read many a grades from many an analyst from 08 until now. I have seen nothing less than an A, except for one B+. I have t agree with the vast majority.
We are not getting a QB this year, at least not till after the 5th round. We have more important areas to cover.
As much as I've criticized Henne, I just cannot see how someone can say this about him. Saying he is the worst starting Qb in the league is just hating on the man. He absolutely, 1000 percent positively, should be on the roster next year. Should they try and upgrade the position? Absolutely! But barring a trade to get another Qb, or the pick back that they used on him, he should be considered to be in competition for the starting job next season. No if ands or butts about it... May the best Qb win it......fair and square!
Now this is just wrong. Damn! I just defended Henne in one post now I have to knock him in the next. The Qb position is the most important part of any team. The Qb position on this team is in question and lots of further development is needed. Who knows if what we see is what we get? I know if I'm the GM of this team, I'm not willing to take a chance that Henne will prove to be the man....
Do you count it against a draft or for a draft if you produce a player at lesser position but that players is extremely capable? I'm wondering if we pick Ingram what does he have to do to not be considered a bust versus a guy like Henne who has to achieve a very high level of play to be a success. RBs that average say 4.2 YPC are fine apparently and not busts but quarterbacks can be 78-85 passer rating guys and be busts? Ronnie hasn't blown the doors off of anything, yet no one will consider him a bust.
will we ever get loaded up on picks like the Patsies? They seem to own the book on Drafting. I wouldnt mind but they always seem to be the best come Draft day. Does my nut in!
They haven't made all that effective use of these draft picks. They're bust percentage is extremely high. I'm hoping that perhaps with Odrick coming back and Ingram perhaps as the pick Miami will continue a resurgence of making excellent first round picks (Merling's 32nd overall 2nd withstanding). Miami has to make their picks worth it simply said and make improve their FA pickups to keep up, but I think they can.
Right now Henne is the best option I feel as starter next year. Yes, I agree giving him competition would be great as we know Penny is done and Thiggy is at most just a backup. But I feel no need to draft another QB through the early rounds to start developing a new QB, when we have other problems, like our running game and OLine. I do think we need a QB to compete with him but we can't just stop and start over with a new QB. It's just not worth it. Now I think Henne has next season to prove he is a starter here. If he doesn't then I think we should consider a new QB.
Running back and offensive line are easily found all thru the draft though. If a Qb, one of the top 3-4 in the draft, falls to them, you take him within the first 30 seconds of the alotted time...
As strange as it sounds I'd say this is the best situation Miami's been in going into the off-season since well maybe 2003? Earlier than that? I don't know even. Maybe 2001? The team's needs aside from Henne are trivial as previously mentioned. If Ireland can't fill RB, speed WR, #2 TE, and G/C then he has to be fired.
That's actually the reason this is the first time in my 20+ years of following the draft, that I really think it's a good idea to pull a Ditka and go get Luck. Everything else we need can be found later in the draft or free agency. If it means going 3 years without a #1 so we can finally have a franchise QB, I'm in. I think this is the first time in almost a decade that I think we have enough good players on this team at the premium positions (left Tackle, nose tackle, #1 WR, pass rusher, #1CB, inside LB, 3-4 ends) to get away with such a strategy. Better than wasting 5 2nd round picks and have nothing.
Anyone giving the 2008 draft class an A or B grade are not looking at the facts. While Jake Long certainly deserves an,"A". No one else from that draft except perhaps Kendall Langford deserves anything higher than a ,"C". While the Dolphins did get D. Bess after the draft. He is not included as a draft pick. Merlins has never been the player the Dolphins expected him to be. To some people. He has actually been a bust. So me giving him a grade of, "D" is higher than a lot of other fans would grade him. Henne is certainly no higher than a, "C-" at this point in his career. The fact that most fans don't think he should be the teams QB into the future is evidence that my grade on him is probably too high. Again, Lex Hilliard is an average back with average ability on special teams. Any grade above a, "C" for him would be absurd. The remaining players drafted in the 2008 draft, Murphy, Parmele, Thomas, and Dotson are no longer with the team. So how anyone could look at the 2008 draft and rate it as an ,"A or B", is beyond me. In fact when you consider that the Dolphins took Long and passed on a franchise QB in Ryan. This only makes the draft appear that much worse. I do realize that the Dolphins did sign Bess, Carpenter, and Fields as free agents after the draft. These three players certainly would have improved the grade of this draft if they had actually been drafted. They were not drafted. So my grade for the draft did not include them as part of the seven round draft for 2008. I would certainly be happy for you to explain to me why you think this draft class deserves a grade of , "A or B". I look forward to your response.
