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Advanced Scout thoughts on Chad Henne

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Dec 21, 2010.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sport...sweblog+(Miami+Dolphins+|+Sun-Sentinel+Blogs)

    Well, let it be said I like OmarK's enthusiasm for his job, think his player observation/projections are typically forgettable at best, however simply repeating what an advance scout has told him about Henne would seem to side step OmarK's flaws.
     
  2. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Don't listen to such follishness Pad.

    "It's the OC. He is being hamstrung. He has 60% completions. He is improved over last year. We just need to add numerous all stars around him, yeah that's the ticket."
    signed Henne defenders
     
  3. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    I would add crumbled one he gets pressure, has zero pocket presence, no mobility, no vision, and a complete lack of self confidence to attack and split 2 deep zones!
     
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  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, the comparison to Kyle Boller to me, is off base, Boller was just "sub average" Henne does show flashes of being pretty good.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BollKy00.htm
     
  5. NFL2102

    NFL2102 New Member

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    "It's all Henne's fault. We need to draft Luck even though he is unproven in the NFL. Henne is the reason we lost every game. Lets get Luck and start the development process all over again!"
    signed Henne bashers.
     
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  6. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Didn't they try benching the QB :confused2:
     
  7. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's fair. Henne is better than Kyle boller. He's also better than Derek Anderson, Alex Smith, Matt Moore, Jimy Clausen and Tarvaris Jackson.

    Being better than those luminaries doesn't make him good. He is what he is, medicore, just like his coaching staff.
     
  8. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Never said he's the reason we lost all the games we've lost.

    And I have no problem starting the development process over again with a guy worth developing. Henne has run out of rope.
     
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  9. SeanP

    SeanP Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think most reasonable people agree that its a mixture of the two. The reason people are supporting Henne still though is that there's no way we survive with Henne + Henning. And it's more likely we survive with Henne and a different OC, than with Henning and a different QB. I think a lot of people are of the realization that the odds of us getting someone better than Chad Henne next year is slim, and getting someone better than him without it costing us big in draft picks is pretty much non-existant.

    So assuming the options really aren't there for getting an upgrade for what it would cost us, arguing Chad Henne's viability really is a moot point. Getting Henning out of here becomes a lot more important at that point.
     
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  10. NFL2102

    NFL2102 New Member

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    If we actually did get him whose to say he won't end up like Henne in a slump his second year showing some flashes of greatness but playing below expectations. Would you throw him under a bus like Henne?
     
  11. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    One thing I agree with is Henne has lost his confidence.He looks so unsure of himself at times.Mabey he 's salvageable under new OC.
     
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  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Interesting, through 25 starts:

    Boller: 14-11 TD to Int's 20-20
    Henne: 13-12 TD to Int's 26-30

    Hmm...:lol:

    Henne does appear to be more accurate, but it is not a huge difference.
     
  13. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not defending Henning. I think he's terrible too. I just don't think Chad Henne is going to be appreciably different next year if the coordinator is Josh McDaniels or David Lee. He is what he is. His numbers this eyar aren't all that different from his numbers last year. Outside of completion percentage which is pumped up due to the checkdowns, he is absically the same player.
     
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  14. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It depends on what the guy shows.
     
  15. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Agree

    Well, there are some decent Free Agent options at Qb depending on how the CBA breaks out, to me I think there should be one brought in and Henne should have to compete with them for the starter's job as the advanced scout is not saying anything that an objective observer wouldn't notice as well and Henne has to be pushed to either improve, or sit.
     
  16. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Quick, forward those stats to ToddPhins.
     
  17. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Obviously Boller didn't have enough Pro Bowlers around him
     
  18. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    Great defense! Anderson put up 3700 yards and 27tds to less then 10 ints and went to the probowl.
    Alex Smith had 5 different OCs and systems in his first 5yrs, name one QB who thrives under those circumstances!
    Matt Moore was a product of anyone but Delhoume! Who by the way just out played Henne in his house.
    Clausen is a injured rookie!
    Tarvaris Jackson was ruined by a crazy HC with a man crush on a old man!


    So how about we compare Henne to the other 2 QBs from his draft class he was drafted behind? Ryan and Flacco!

    I wouldn't even compare Henne to Boller because Kyle would stretch the field!

    Make all the excuses you want, but at the end of the day defenses don't respect Henne! They stack the box take away the run and force turnovers.
     
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  19. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Woah there.

    How do you read my post as defending Henne? I'm not. I think he's medicre at best.

    But he is better than those guys I mentioned.
     
  20. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I think that Henne could make a fine backup in this league.
     
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  21. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, I think the larger point is, the scout's report on Henne's play is troubling, and it fits hand in glove with what opposing defenders have had to say about his play going all the way back to the Patriots game.

    BTW, Boller was a BEAST in the UFL.
     
  22. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Well said.
     
  23. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Whats even more troubling is the issues mentioned are the same ones that were mentioned about Henne when he was coming out of college.
     
  24. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    With all due respect, I don't think Chad Henne could succeed with Bill Walsh as his coach. His flaws IMO are too damaging. And that is really irregardless of Dan Henning. The two can be evaluated separately.
     
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  25. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    Debatable! I think anyone of those guys could match Hennes production on our team. Well maybe noy Anderson he seems to be ******ed now! But if I were a new HC I might take a flyer on Smith with a guy like kubiac or mcdaniels as OC, but only if we cant trade up for Luck!
     
  26. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    More accurate? You like 26 TD's and 30INT's over 20 and 20? How about this, I don't like either one.

    BTW I said over a year ago he reminded me of Mr. Boller and was taken to the woodshed by some on this board. Its nice to know that at least one "Real" scout agrees with my assesment. "We have seen the Enemy and he is us!"
     
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  27. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Agree but you could add one more we had a chance to get but didn't - Matt Flynn who just might be the best of the litter imho.
     
  28. flynryan151

    flynryan151 New Member

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    Bottomline is Henne strikes about as much fear into opposing defenses as a basket full of kittens!
     
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  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Which brings up the 3 second buzzer if one thinks about it, the quickest way to make that less of a flaw is to get the ball out of the Qb's hands as fast as possible that way if the safety is reading him he will not have enough time to react anyway.
     
  30. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I'm not a coach, just a die-hard fan so I just don't get it. How does Henne get so far as a QB, starting all 4 years at a major football school, breaking records, getting drafted in the 2nd round, etc. if he can't read a defense or look off a safety? It doesn't make sense and just makes me wonder if it is a confidence issue. I mean, the kid HAS shown flashes over his 25 starts. And it's not like he hasn't had instances where he's overcome his flaws (I know for a fact that he sometimes looks off the safety, he even mentions it himself), but he's so inconsistent and everytime he takes a step forward he takes one back.

    I think Sean is right, most likely Henne is going to be our QB next season. Even if we draft someone the rookie won't be starting next year. I think we need to get a new OC AND a new QB coach and see what Henne comes back with next season.
     
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  31. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    How about this - I think Henne is better than Sanchez. I think our defense is similar to theirs (nearly identical in pts and yds per game). I think our running game SHOULD be as good as theirs.

    If we can get someone to call a game that plays to Henne's strengths and hides his weaknesses - as well as not relying on him to throw for

    And before everyone says that Sanchez is this 4th quarter mastermind - he has a 60 QBR in the 4th quarter +/- 7 pts - and is completing 45% of his passes. Henne is outperforming him (70 QBR, 55% comp%).

    I'M NOT SAYING HENNE IS THE ANSWER. Just that there is a blueprint out there to hide a young QB if your team's strengths are defense and the running game. Spending huge assets to move up or trade for a top-tier QB are going to prevent us from getting the top running game or completing the defense.
     
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  32. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I also agree that Henne is at least as good as Sanchez is. The difference is the Jets have a running game, and with young QB's, that's a major difference.
     
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  33. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    What's hard for me to comprehend in this Sanchez vs Henne debate, is........What is the state of Henne's confidence and mindframe? Is he shot and forever damaged? He has regressed - thats clear, but mentally is he now a broken QB? Or would a new OC really be able to wake him up from this GUN SHY QB and return him to the path of Gunslinger?? A broken Henne isnt better than Sanchez at all.
     
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  34. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I don't think we've used that buzzer since 08.

    Another good way is to use play action, so the defense can't even see the QBs eyes.
     
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  35. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    True
    And 2102 and Marinephin
     
  36. Tepop84

    Tepop84 Banned

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    Chad Henne accumulated his stats in college against really bad big ten teams. He had 22 TDs and 3 int in 7 games against michigan state and indiana. Two teams who really sucked the 4 years he was in college.
     
  37. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I think we could hide some of his flaws like his horrible fake hand-offs. But you can't hide the fact that when he goes to throw he stares down the receiver. No OC can hide that henne can't read a defense. These are areas he has to do himself. The coaches can't hide them.
     
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  38. Frayser

    Frayser Barstool Philosopher

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    You'll forgive me if I tend to assume Omar is being a little disingenuous when he makes claims like "all the scouts I've talked to say the same thing." What did those scouts say about Koa Misi, Omar?

    SeanP, hit the nail on the head. The best we are going to do is find someone to come in and compete with Henne. You'd think by now that we, as fans, would have realized that good quarterbacks don't grow on trees. Henne has at least shown enough to where I find it hard to believe people would just want to dump him. Bring in somebody to compete with him, whether that be a veteran or someone in the draft (but probably not all that early). Ditch Henning for an OC with a pulse. Get him a real threat at TE. And give him a consistent ground game that can abuse secondaries if they decide to sit on their heels.

    This isn't rocket science, and I feel like the Henning vs. Henne arguments have just taken on a life of their own at this point. If a better option than Henne shows its face, I'll gladly hop aboard that bandwagon. But for now, we're stuck with what we've got. And I don't think he's been that awful, all things considered. And a blog post from the most narcissistic beat writer I've ever encountered, who has been dogging on the guy for months on end, doesn't really change anything for me.
     
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  39. Frayser

    Frayser Barstool Philosopher

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    This notion that Henne stares down his receivers on every throw is really off base, if you ask me. Guys generally look at the receiver to whom they are throwing. I've watched every game this year, and I've only seen "staring down" his primary receiver as a real problem sparingly. In fact, I think he's been much better this year than last year with that respect. It's still a bit of a problem, but the guy is in his second year starting. Young quarterbacks are going to have flaws. Get him into a system in which he feels comfortable. Give him a little more experience. And it's more than possible that he'll continue to improve in that area.

    Tom Brady didn't become the QB he is overnight. In fact, I remember many of us complaining that he just wasn't that great his first several years, pointing out his numerous check downs, dunks, and screen passes. He was a far cry from the surgeon that stands out on the field now carving up defenses. That comes from 1) experience and 2) being comfortable in your offensive system. Henne has neither of those things right now.
     
  40. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't understand this idea that because there isn't an obvious better option than Henne right now, the solution is to simply throw up your hands and say "oh well, let's hope the guy gets better".

    If you don't believe Henne is the answer you go out and find the right guy. you spend the resources necessary to do so.
     

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