I still can't believe 99% of Dolphins fans bash Henne

What is worse, the Int's did not do Beck in, it was the fumbles, like Henne had in the Jets game.

I liked Beck a ton, but he never had half of the chance that Henne has had and the results are close, the difference being a better defense and better ST and less dummy penalties.

 

Which was one of the reasons I was elated when they re-signed Pennington. I thought he'd surely rub off on Henne. So far, I was wrong.

Penningtons knack for knowing where and when to throw the ball before the Wr even makes his cuts is what made up for his lack of a legit arm. So if Henne were to aquire just a smidgen of that knowlege he'd be lighting up the league with that arm strength.

Anywho....

 

I'm not supporting Henne at all. What I am an advocate of is:
1. getting in a new OC (Henning does nothing to help out a young QB.... AT ALL. Dan & Sparano should be stoned for what they're doing to Chad)
2. addressing the Oline (A poor Oline that can't run block places too much stress on a young QB)
3. adding a running back worth a darn who is actually a threat to pop a play here and there. (weak running backs create unnecessary pressure on a young QB)
4. getting in some speed on offense/vertical threat (a void in this department does nothing to help a young, strong armed QB develop).
5. adding a #2 TE who can threaten the seam (even guys like Brady & Manning need them)
6. letting Henne get into a rhythm and doing everything possible to allow him to stay there, bc when he gets into a rhythm, he's hot.
7. addressing the entire offense's ability to sell a playfake and hope we can build up their enthusiasm about it when we no longer uselessly run it 160 times/game.
8. putting ALL this together and seeing how we ACTUALLY perform when we can attack the entire field with a balanced offense and an OC with more than a peanut as a brain.

I'm not saying Henne will be a star, but I am saying that there are a LOT of QBs who would appear to be "underachieving" in this current offense with Henning leading the way.

 

Do you not think that his timing would be better if he had a true, consistent vertical threat whom he can trust to throw it up to and develop an "actual" rapport with? Would you trust throwing deep to any of our guys on any given play if you were the QB? Other QB's have this luxury. Henne doesn't IMO.

It's one thing to try and hit a guy who gets open deep once in a while b/c of a good move. It's another thing to have a true vertical threat with some speed who can flat out beat a DB.

 

This makes it very difficult for Henne AND our offense in general. It's part Henning's fault for the playcalling.... and it's part Ireland/Sparano/Tuna for not getting guys in here who can stretch the field better in order to allow a Brandon Marshall more space to operate under and make big plays rather than being tackled as he's catching the ball. He's not Brandon Marshall here. He's a glorified possession WR.

Bess is a possession WR. Hart is a possession WR. Fasano is a possession TE. R&R are possession RBs. Henne is not a possession type QB. He doesn't need to be tamed down. He has a cannon that needs to be unleashed and maximized. He is not the kind of QB you want to rely on deadly short field accuracy for 4 quarters to receivers who get little separation.

This offense's structure/personnel and our OC do NOTHING to help Henne improve. Chad is not a dink and dunk guy. We're asking him to be Pennington, and he's not. He needs targets whom he can throw downfield to multiple times a game in order to get into strong rhythm.

 

I'm talking about timing not throwing the ball on deep routes.

But since you mentioned it, yeah, I think he should be more accurate on his deep throws. Marshall can get behind defenders fine and especially within 25 yards where most passes are caught on DEEP routes.

Sure a guy with Tedd Ginn type speed would help those though. That way Henne can just launch it very high and very deep and hope his speedy Wr can get under it.

 

The biggest problem with Henne in this offense is that He has trouble with Zone Defenses. Not that he has no deep threat. Hartline is not just a possession Wr. He is very quick and we've seen him get behind defenses consistantly. Only to be missed

 

Why would anyone explode over what you said?

I'll say one thing. Henne may have been ruined by Dan Henning, and his Qb coach. MAYBE, and it might even be easily corrected but for now, Henne looks damned near like he's thinking #### it for 3/4 of a game....

 

11 catches, 106 yards 1TD. What else do you want? Btw, he has 3 TD's which guess what? Doesn't all have to do with a QB. It has to do with an OC using him as a decoy and a WR not getting separation as well. But then again you already knew that....

 

Reasonable, but how can the roll the dice in Henne for a third season after the last two seasons?

Granted the problems are all over the place, however has Henne really shown enough to have "one more year"?

I do not think they should, but can understand why they would.

 

I don't see how people don't see a QB who is aggressive and loves to fit the ball into tight windows has transformed into a timid pusssy who is scared to throw the ball anywhere due to the stupid moronic mantra beat into him by this regime.

 

Thing is, can you, or anyone, recall a poor Qb suddenly becoming a great Qb due to a Qb Coach and OC switch?

I really cannot recall even one who suddenly became much better when those moves were made.

Maybe when Fossil took over play calling from Sean Peyton with the NYG?

But Kerry Collins had been good before that change out.

 

Can you remember a OC this bad? Never lasted with the same team for more than 3 seasons in ****ing 400 years of coaching.

 

3 yrs in the NFL, two yrs starting?

 

Well, let me ask you, with all of the shuffling of OC's in Miami, which one has ever produced a better Qb?

Cam Cameron is a Qb guru, Cleo Lemon was still a bad Qb.

Now I do think Henning is way way to cautious, but this offense was what..top 10 in 09?

And they added Brandon Marshall to it.

I do agree with a point you made before, there are routes that just do not exist in the offense, or if they do, are rarely successful, like Curtis being NCAA open on that post route and Henne just flat out missing him, that route was not attempted again, at least the throw wasn't made anyway.

 

Fixed that for you. Chad Henne will be traded before or on draft day.

 

Thanks to the OP for your comments.....I'm 100% with you that Henne could be a tremendous QB with the right personnel inside the front office. They've screwed him all year and held him back, and the loss today was inexcusable. High winds, the kicker is struggling, and your QB has built a beautiful comeback drive. No way in the world we should have taken two of the three downs away from Henne...it sickened me to see Carpenter take the field when he knew it wouldn't go.

In winds like that, it's impossible. One minute they're blowing hard left, two seconds later its hard right. Even with a meteorologist on the field, I'd bet against Carpenter in that situation and he's one of the best in the league.

 

Maybe, with the labor issues upcoming predicting any sort of move like that is really tough.

I do agree with RR, at the very least he will face competition from a Veteran who has a good shot to start for us, not some Josh McCown type of Qb.

 

Did you read what Florence said from the Bills? They had ONE open deep route the entire day, and that was Curtis. Do you know how many times deep passes are missed in games? Henne has 1 shot and hes expected to make it everytime? Give him 5-6 deep passes per game like most NFL QBs get and he will hit 2-3. The problem is we give him 1, maybe 2 if lucky and expect them to execute it to perfection.

Dude in 08 (year our offense was ranked #10) we played the crappiest and sorriest teams of all time. Our schedule WAS SO EASY, yet we barely beat them. Remember the bend dont break philosophy of our defense because they had to keep bailing us out in 2008? We barely beat crappy teams and couldn't really score unless the wildcat was there to save our asses.

Can you honestly remember a game where Henning actually dominated a team in 3 freaking years that didn't include the wildcat? I sure as hell can't remember a single game. And the one game where we play a dominating defense in the playoffs, our offensive plan gets destroyed and cremated.

Heres something Florence also said.

And Cleo Lemon wasn't THAT bad as our QB. His problem was that our entire team got decimated and he was regulated to crappy crappy crappy skill positions around him with one of the worst defenses I have ever seen backing him up with Cameron Worrell as our starting safety.

 

You'd take him over Orton?

 

Thanks very much for the compliment. I don't want them to just up and get rid of Chad Henne. However, going into next season, I want whomever it is to go after an even better option. Let all the Qb's compete for the starting job. Henne has too many flaws, and sure, it can be corrected, but laying all the eggs in that basket is too risky imo.

Get rid of Henning? What do they say when boarding the boat? Allllll ABOARD!! I think this season would feel much better if they fired him 5 minutes ago. I'm also no longer supporting Sparano like I have in the past. They'll probably keep him and that's fine but he's starting to remind me way too much of pornstache....

 

Well tough to tell, Section likes Shaun Hill, but whomever it is needs a completion percentage above 60%.

Like Palmer, but think he will be something of a commodity with maybe AZ trading for him and eating that salary.

 

TBH, did not have to, it is the same thing that was said after the Ravens game and a couple of other times but in slightly different forms.

And "yes" Henne has to hit that throw and "yes" Henning needs to call it more often.

Hmm in 09 I thought we were top 10 in scoring? Could have been top 15, either way the offense was far more effective than it has been this season, two solid yrs, one just awful yr.

Raiders, Titans, the difference being they were playing press or single high safety, throw a zone on Henne and this is what we get and the entire NFL knows it.

Dude is cow flop in the CFL, a career 55% passer, nothing had changed even that season, point being a Qb "guru" cannot turn water into wine, typically the guys they get credit for where already pretty good.

 

Different offenses though, McNabb is a WCO Qb, to me that means MN.

 

Well the other to is, if you are going to play "wannyball" then play it, those long, missed, FG's gave the Bills great field position, 17 running plays vs the worst rushing defense in the league is also not "wannyball", this half way inbetween stuff is what gets teams killed.

 

We didn't dominate **** against the Raiders and Titans. Both those teams suck and have terrible secondaries.

We haven't dominated a game in 3 years minus the Patriots wildcat game.

 

We were 15th last year with 360 pts (22.5 pts/game). 24 pts came from defense and special teams TDs. We had 15 passing TDs and 22 rushing TDs.

We're 30th this year in scoring with 239 pts (17.1 pts/game). 7 pts have come from defensive TDs. We have 15 passing TDs and 6 (!!!) rushing TDs.


If we had just 8 more rushing TDs on the year (so we'd average 1/game) we'd be sitting at 19th in scoring (with 285 pts). If we had 13 more rushing TDs (bringing our average to slightly below last year at 1.3 rushing TDs/game) we would be 12th in scoring.

I mean we have 35+ less yds per game on the ground this year, and are averaging .7 less yds per carry as a team, all while offensive turnovers and defensive takeaways have roughly remained the same.

I can tell you right now what the biggest issue is with our offense (not that there isn't an issue in many areas), and it is our running game. Whether we need all new backs (which I think we do), or we need better performing interior linemen (which I think we do), something has to change. Our offense (as it is) won't work with such an underperforming running game, no matter who we realistically get at QB (and by work I mean top 15).

 

Carson Palmer, Vick or trade up in the draft... need to do it right, pay the price & get it done. we go nowhere w/o the Franchise QB

 

Looking doubtful that Henne is the answer but he is what he is, a #58 pick. I'd guess from that position in the draft franchise QB's are found less than 25% of the time. Maybe we get Palmer or Orton, or we draft draft another question mark that takes 2-3 years to know what we have; which I hope we do. However, there will probably be a lot of disappointed people next year when Henne is competing for the job. And just wishful thinking to believe we can move up enough to select Luck with only one 1st, one 3rd round pick and no 2nd round picks as trade bait.

What surprises me the most is there are no (or very few) threads started/debated about the running game. Average running teams ran all over the Bills this year. We should have been able to win running 60% or more of the snaps. Now I'm not a guru, but if teams are playing zone against us then it would suggest there should only be 7 in the box and we still can't run the darn ball. This would also lead me to believe that Henne has regressed this year, as is suggested and appears, because last year teams were stacking the box with 8/9 which required tham to play more man.

To me the running game is at least as much to blame. Nobody fears it so they gameplan to stop the pass with zone and render our offense totally ineffective.

 

Thanks for the respectful comment last night, my friend.

I'm not against Hartline. I think he's a good player, but I also feel this offense won't be maximized until we get someone in here who helps draw more coverage and allows Marshall & Bess more space underneath to make plays. Brandon is an absolute stud, and we're leashing him right now b/c we're giving him zero opportunity to do what he does best. What's the sense in having one of the top WRs in the NFL if you won't allow him to play at that high level?

I won't replace Bess or Marshall, so Hartline is the odd man out IMO. It's not like he wouldn't be productive; he'd be our #4..... and an extremely valuable one at that. He's the kind of "utility" receiver whom we can plug into any of the 3 positions like Green Bay does with Jordy Nelson. IMO Hart's best potential in the NFL is at the slot. He can rotate in with Bess when Bess needs a rest (or is injured); he can rotate in when the #2 needs a breather (or is injured); and if Marshall needs a rest (or is injured) our #2 can move to #1, and Hart can assume the #2 role. He'd also make our 4 WR sets very good.

Missing Hartline deep every few games means little IMO. Watch many of Peyton Manning's 1st Qtr games. He's off target and out of rhythm a LOT. But he gets some throws out of the way and settles in. He gets into a rhythm. Many NFL QBs are like this....... especially if they throw a lot of 25+ yard passes a game. This offense (and Henning) dont allow Chad to settle in on his deep throws b/c they don't give him enough opportunity to do so. One missed deep pass looks like crap "in fans' eyes" when it's the ONLY one we attempted all game; however, if your QB can throw downfield at least 3-4 times/game, then that "one" missed pass doesn't look so bad anymore b/c he'll hit on 2 of the final 3 once he's gotten his timing down etc. IMO Hartline isn't the kind of guy you want to be throwing downfield to multiple times/game..... or at least he wouldn't be my first choice as such if I could draw it up from scratch and pick any guy I want for the job.

Let me ask you this: Let's say you're in franchise mode in Madden, you need a vertical threat who can stretch the coverage, and the entire NFL is at your disposal. How many receivers are you taking ahead of Hartline?

My thoughts: Everyone on this offense (outside of Long) can be upgraded, so the last thing I'll do is be complacent with Brian as a starter when there are better out there. No one gets a free pass IMO. Our offense needs to be improved; if we can do that by getting a better #2, then I'm not showing any favoritism toward Hart.

 

Another question: If you had your choice between Marshall or Bess starting in the slot, whom would you guys prefer?

 

the receiving corp is excellent, the QB is the problem

 

Well TP, if you don't mind, let me change that around a bit:

"Why doesn't Marshall play in the slot more, and why can't Bess line up outside more often"?

To me, they both are great players who should be used more creatively, recall BM linning up in the backfield some, but it never happening again? It is my hope if we land a new OC, or Sparano takes over that role, we see more creativity with those two as both can play like running backs.