Tony McDaniel being a better player than Jared Odrick is crazy talk. McDaniel has had a very good season, no question. Odrick has yet to prove anything in the pro-level as well. BUT Odrick is a beast. The rotations of Langford, Odrick, and Starks is going to be a beast. Not to mention Phillip Merling seems to be pretty motivated. I think we are more than fien with those four. Odrick was one of the best fifteen players in the draft in my opinion.
As of right now MCD is a better player imo. That isn't even taking into account that Odrick has not been able to stay on the field , and that he can , isn't a given at all. MCD has spoken in ways that certainly indicate he is all about getting his money , and nothing wrong with that , he also hasn't been , let's say kind , to this organization , but his production and potentail is big time imo. Definitely want to keep him , he is on the cusp of being dominant in my eyes.
Let's see what a healthy Odrick can do. he looked damn good in Buffallo. I am worry about the John Jerry pick. This guy doesn't seem like a RG or RT
I mentioned this in another post , asking about our options for tagging MCD. Very uniformed in that area , I admit , but again , I would not let MCD walk unless EVERY avenue to keep him was explored. He is on the cusp of being a dominant , physical , massive force on the d lne , if he isn't there already. I also see upside still , so my preferance is for him to remain a Dolphin , if not then let's get reasonable and fair value in return. MCD or Odrick ? No hesitancy on my part who I like better and would keep.
Therein lies part of this problem , we have zero assurances we will see what a healthy Odrick can do. Like it or not , he now has a significant injury history , MCD has been a force , and is a physical monster. Not casting Odrick aside, but again , if I had to chose one over the other I would pick MCD in heartbeat. Jerry hasn't shown me enough to count on him being an average starter , now maybe he will be that or better , but I don't see it....yet. This organization hasn't shown they can develop olineman imo , so I am definitely not penciling him in as an answer to an ongoing question ...
That seems to be the concensus .... guys LIke MCQ were and are available every year for a future 6th rounder , plug him in , get by , make do .... you don't draft a G in round 3 for that imo , especially when we igmored multiple players at a position of need that have come into the league as rookies and really contributed. Again , as many have mentioned , disturbing to see this trend of not hitting/developing olineman. Should have been a strength for the organization.
I personally think that John Jerry has a lot of work to do on his body and conditioning before he starts to hold up better. Also, the guy is not the smartest man in the world so it doesn't surprise me he needs a while to get the technique right. He's not a guy I ever would have accused of being a "out of the box" rookie. But things happen really quickly on the interior and it takes a while to catch up sometimes. I wouldn't be down on the guy, he's a classic case of "talk to me about him after 3 years". McQuistan is the guy that surprises me a little. After a few awful outings when he arrived, he's settled down and played a little better. I don't even know that he's been worse than Richie Incognito at this point.
Well I will tell you one thing schmolioot, if your gripe is that in year 3 we don't have the interior OL straightened out the way we did in year 2, then this Draft is for you. There are more good Guard prospects in this Draft than I would know what to do with. Rodney Hudson, Orlando Franklin, John Moffitt, DeMarcus Love, Lee Ziemba, Justin Boren, Thomas Claiborne...I mean, sign me up. From top to bottom in the round grading, there are guys I like at that position. If Tony Sparano doesn't use this strong Guard class to bring in a few guys and try and really straighten the position out in camp, then I would be surprised.
CK , if you use a relatively high draft choice , and certainly for a G that is relatively high , and he is an overage draft choice at that , would you not expect the learning curve to be less than it has been? I do.
If I didn't want a QB I'd be on board with ya, CK. And my gripe is more frusturation that spots that should be relatively easy to fill, without breaking the bank, remained in such flux. But if Jerry improves, Garner comes back healthy, you add a Mankins and re-sign Incognito, then everything should be fine and we don't need to invest more draft choices.
What round are you projecting these Guards to go in CK? I don't know , keep swinging and hope you hit on one? or change something up so you don't keep repeating yourself and getting the same results.They haven't shown a reason we should have faith in them expending draft choices for this position. If Mankins is indeed available , that is my priority , then use the draft to get better playmakers on offense , and add a TE perhaps from FA as well.
Heres hoping ! Mankins and Garner would be a terrific start and then add at least 2 playmakers , if we did that I would like to see what Henne can do with a current/modern offensive coordinator , and say a RB you have to game plan for and a TE that can challenge you.
I agree. I think far too much is being made of the offensive line. You'd always love more dominance and cohesion, and hopefully that will come sooner than later. But there's a perception that this line sucks basically because it hasn't been performing up to last year's standards. In reality, they've done a fair job, especially in pass blocking, and are getting no favors from the backs. It's as if everyone is reaching for that elusive 5 man pro-bowl line that just doesn't happen. Chances are in this day and age you're going to have a weak spot or two you need to work around. And there have been numerous SB willing teams that had questionable offensive lines (Patriots, Bucs, Steelers), so I don't think the issue is nearly as big as finding a few playmakers that can make everyone, line included, look a little better. And that's not to say that I don't think we need an upgrade or two, but I question how much resources we need to spend on it.
They haven't had a specific method at the position that is proving to fail. They've swung for the fences AND tried to hit singles and doubles. And they've bunted a few times. Actually if anything the most consistent failed strategy has been swinging at the fences with Justin Smiley and Jake Grove. Those were high risk, high reward, high price situations and the high risk won out. They've hit on a lot of singles and doubles. Patience is key. Nate Garner comes back from an injury and John Jerry improves and suddenly the interiot OL is looking a lot better without having really done anything else to it. I think they do need to get some more guys and have them compete but still. No idea why anyone would be giving up on a John Jerry as a rookie. And a lot of the guys I named are not necessarily going high round.
Not giving up , rather not counting on him is how I see it. I look at it like this, Long obviously is a great player , but he should be. He was selected #1 overall , so I equate that to signing Mankins if he is avaialble. There wouldn't/shouldn't be any questions on how well he would perform .Sure you have to pay for that , but locking that side up for ???? years at a pro bowl level should be worth the cost. Then , as you mentioned , another year , competition , coaching should allow someone from the mix to rise to be a solid above average player. Garner , Jerry , Incognito , MCQ .... I would not want to use a draft choice higher than round 4 on a olineman this year , unless you have great value in round three. Saying that we have a third rounder from this year , so for me I would prioritize Mankins and then not focus on the line with draft picks till round 4 or later this year.
I was hoping Shula would draft his old man back in 1989. I thought our run game needed better linemen more than better backs. Would have loved to come out of the first 2 rounds with Wisniewski and Stepnoski. That would improved our run game more than Sammie Friggin' Smith.
Who was it, ToddsPhins that asked about Dontay Moch? I *love* this guy. He's not Chris Carter. He's a different player. Chris Carter is Cameron Wake. Dontay Moch is like a shorter Julian Peterson. What I want to do with him is put him in a 4-3 as an OLB. That speed of his is incredible. And he's got those big long monkey arms. He's not a physical guy, he's not great with the stack and shed game, I don't know that you want him setting the edge in defenses. I think you want him protected a little bit, running around and making plays on the ball. I'd love to be a Defensive Coordinator cooking up ways to let him make plays. You could put him down the field in man coverage on a WR and he's so fast and has such a naturalness to his coverage that you won't even be nervous. Then on 3rd & Long you can put him down over the other team's slower Right Tackle, have him speed rush by the guy so fast he sucks the decal off his helmet. Watching him so far against Boise, he's had two real speed rushes tonight. Both he blew by the tackle and hit Kellen Moore hard right on the back just after he released the ball. One of those was against Nate Potter, a very highly regarded tackle. He doesn't have that flexibility and low orientation like Chris Carter or Cameron Wake, but he does have excellent ability to redirect and he's so fast I don't know what tackle is keeping up with him in that situation. What a find he would be. I'd draft him. A guy at FH that evaluates talent really well thinks he's like another Lance Briggs. I could see that too. Dontay Moch and Chris Carter...cooking with fine wine.
Thanks for the nice write up Chris. The kid really gets the wheels turning doesn't he! lol. I was impressed when I watched him too, but I couldn't figure out what the heck we'd do with him. The thing that kept coming back to mind was: drafting him as a hopeful Patriots neutralizer with how they like to create mismatches around the field. That's 1 guy/LB on the field that they would be less able to exploit, no? And if the league trends towards the Patsies success, then we'd end up having ourselves 1 hell of an X factor. With how physical and dominating our Dline is becoming, I was thinking he could maybe be groomed into an ILB or, heck, even a SS. Dontay feels pretty strongly that he'll run a 4.2 at the Combine (has been clocked between 4.08-4.2 during 3 different runs). Even if he hits 4.3, that's scary fast for his size. How would you like him being a gunner and trucking you at full speed? Would you rather have Moch or Herzlich if you were forced to pull the trigger?
You ain't jokin, Baldy. I hated that stupid Smith pick. I would've like to have Wis & Step together just so we'd have the Ski Bros on the Olin to go along with all the other tandems etc. Ok, gimme your rundown on that stud TE of yours, Paulson. I like the kid, but I wanted your opinion. Also, how would you feel about LaM James totin the ball here? Congrats on making the Natl Championship game BTW. I'm in the Ducks' corner.
I've been thinking about this lately and (even though I'm probably in the minority) I'd trade Odrick for a high-mid 2nd round pick and re-sign McD. There are a few guys on defense whom I'd rather have now that this team is showing its stripes. IMO the defense won't take its final leap to domination until it gets an Ed Reed type in the secondary who can really capitalize on the pressure we put on offenses. I'd add 1 more playmaking LB to that equation, too, IMO. I'd trade Odrick straight up for Rahim Moore. Off the top of my head, I'd also trade him straight up for Kyle Rudolph, LaMichael James, Ryan Williams, Mark Herzlich, Stephen Wisniewski, a few of the stud RT/LGs, Justin Blackmon, and possibly Dontay Moch if we could find a place for him. If we could get a high 2nd for Odrick, and then trade back our 1st to end up with 3 2nds (or a late 1st and 2 seconds), that would really open up our draft options.
I'd rather have Herzlich because I know that Herzlich's brain is going to process everything I can throw at it, and that he can play in our style of defense. In our defense I hate to say it but Dontay Moch would have to be a role player for the time being. Eventually he could replace Karlos Dansby, if his instincts come along well enough...but that's kind of a big IF. I don't think this is a player for Miami. I think he's a wonderful player, but just not one for Miami because his value is capped unless he really starts to develop at a rapid pace in some areas. In Miami he would hope to work his way up to being a pass coverage specialist, paired with Karlos Dansby on passing downs. On some of those downs, obviously you could have him put his hand on the ground and speed rush the outside opposite Wake...maybe pulling up Koa Misi from his spot at RDE to play as a true LB next to Dansby. In that situation, since you have two speed rushers in Wake and Moch, you probably want to have Misi play spy and make sure nothing comes out of the backfield. If Wake got hurt, Moch could fill his role as primary pass rusher on nickel downs. But how do you get this guy involved on 1st and 2nd down? I don't want him having to play the run, stacking and shedding from the outside at 3-4 OLB. And I doubt he has the instincts, physicality, or ability to shed blocks to play in the middle right away...if at all. I think an aggressive 4-3 defense takes him, put him at Will backer, and then find ways to have fun with him in 3rd down defense.
Nice points all around. I'd have to agree with you on going with Herzlich. And if we need a situational pass rusher, then your boy Carter would seem to be a better choice.
I'm with Chris on this guard class; Rod Hudson, Steve Schilling, you could kick Ziemba inside, Mike Berry the Auburn LG, Thomas Claiborne out at Clemson, Moffitt who's a beast, Ricky Henry the RG at Nebraska, Garrett Chisholm, John Bender at Nevada, Samson Genus at South Florida, Bryant Browning at OSU, the kid at Miami, etc. Lot of really good players. Disagree with whoever was talking about Jeremy Beal; not a great pass rush threat but watch Beal in two areas; change of direction and working in space because he's excellent in both. Also disagree about Tony McDaniels vs Jared Odrick. Odrick has proved nothing. McDaniels is arguably our best defensive lineman not called Paul Soliai. Soliai won't go but he's playing beyond a Pro Bowl level. Anyone go back and watch the 1 vs 1 match up against All Pro Nick Mangold last week? I'd say 75% of those battles were Soliai wins. And that's being generous to Mangold who's a terrific player. Todd - Rahim Moore is overrated. Why would you draft a free safety when you have Chris Clemons playing at a level not matched since Brock Marion in terms of his ability on the field and well above that if you look at ability to tackle? If Miami is looking anywhere in the secondary then it's SS because Yeremiah Bell is slowing down. We have 4 good corners in Davis, Smith who has been fantastic the last 6 weeks, Nolan Carroll who shows real flashes of ability and Benny Sapp who's playing OK at probably the toughest spot, the nickel. There's a lot of good players in this draft who will start to emerge in the coming weeks and months. I know that Chris, Richard and myself have watched many, many, many hours of games. Not 1st round guys necesarily, but guys you just saw glimpses of who end up being good NFL starters because they're put in positions to maximise their abilities. Guys like the aforementioned Bender of Nevada or Virgil Green his teammate, one of the elite blocking TE's in the draft. Or this gang of receivers with players like Blackmon and Ryan Broyles. Or a guy like Aldon Smith at Missouri who has legitimate top 10 talent if he can stay healthy. Or Karl Klug or Iowa or his team mate Brett Morse or Justin Boren or Damik Scaife of BC or Herzlich or Niles Paul or Brad Jefferson or Russell Wilson or Marcus Gilchrist of Clemson or Von Miller or Ugo Chinasa of OSU, Jeff Fuller of A+M, Kendall Hunter, Fairley or Chris Culliver, or Hankerson or Detron Lewis or Aaron Williams or the outstanding Mario Harvey or Baron Batch or Demarcus Love or Boling or Greg Childs or Ian Williams or Eric Gordon of MSU or Roy Helu or George Bryan of NC State or Owen Spencer his teammate or Titus Young or Winston Venable or Taurean Poole or Lee Smith at Marshall or Pernell McPhee of MSU or Zack Pianalto or Sturvidant and Carter or Pat Peterson or Paea or Tank Carder or Wayne Daniels or Akeem Ayers or Brandon Harold or Jonas Mouton or the QB's like Foles, Cam Newton who's been the best college QB I've seen since Charlie Ward, Andrew Luck and some of the younger studs like Geno Smith at WVU or Ryan Katz at Oregon State, etc..........there's been a whole tub full of cracking players. Some will make it, some won't. The Dolphins not having the second rounder hurts. They need to secure that OL. You're fine at LT. Can you get a Logan Mankins? Will Ireland get into a bidding war with the likes of Dallas? I can see Incognito being kicked to center. I can see Carey being kicked inside to G. You have Nate Garner coming back. John Jerry needs a lot of work. Berger is a back up. McQuistan is stop gap like Ndukwe was stop gap. We need speed at tailback and at WR and at TE. You'd have to get very lucky to hit all three. To me the defense is fine. I'd like another pass rusher and I'd like a strong safety. But the defense is in great shape. The players are there in the draft to be had. Can Miami get them?
I think at WR you can look at guys that will also be return/ST players b/c that WR we are looking for is most likely a burner and Jones is someone they can look at or a guy like Hurd from Dallas. People are mentioning Bradshaw and I like the guy but I don't see Miami giving 25 mill gaurantee to a RB. I'd put taht 25 mill into the package for Mankins who is going to cost some good $$, get a guy like Jones at WR or Hurd. Use the Draft to get your late round pass rusher in rounds 4-7 that situational guy. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried out R Jones at SS but I think he lacks the mental aspect of the position to align players unless Clemons can step in and do taht for him properly as Bell does. I think the TE spot can also be addressed in FA with Scaife, Daniels, Sheffler etc as options. Clemons has played very very well. I just hope he works on those hands b/c he coudl easily have had 5 INT so far on the year, they are just bricks like Smith apparently. I am worried Soliai is pulling a haynesworth (contract year).
I don't see either Scaife or Sheffler as TE options and if Daniels is healthy then he stays in Houston. It was always going to take Soliai time. He's already talking deal with Miami. This was a converted OG who played NG at Utah. It takes time. He was overweight and immature. Now he's one of the best 3-4 DT's in the NFL.
Personally, I think instead of ivnesting more money into that vry good offense they should invest it into some defense and let Daniels walk over to miami
I think Jernigan runs a 4.4 flat or under. His balance and body control are elite. I'm still liking the kid a BUNCH and would take him if he were there in the 3rd. Good nfl body for his height too. I think he's close to a Steve Smith type guy. Steve Smith: predraft 5'9, 184. Ran a 4.41. 3rd round pick.
Damn..... I hope is knee is ok. that didn't look very friendly. The kid's been sick the past few days. They shouldn't even have him playing the 2nd half of this blow out.
Is 2010 Moore overrated?..... or both 09 and 10? I liked 09 Moore a lot and that's who I'd be drafting, but maybe I'm being too optimistic. I think Clemons is doing a great job. I could possibly give our secondary a year for it to turn around as far as capitalizing on all the INT opportunities, but if by our next full season that doesn't happen, then someone's gonna need upgrading b/c IMO there's no sense having a top 5 defense if it's gonna rank in the bottom of the league in turnovers created. With all the pressure our front puts on QBs (not to mention 3rd and longs after stuffing the ground game) we need SOMEBODY in the secondary to step up and help put games away so that all this pressure sees its maximum return on investment. Right now, I'm not moving Vontae or SS, so my default guy is Clemons, whom I still feel can replace Bell b/c he's tremendous when the play is in front of him (see stuffing Big Ben at the goal line). If you'd rather upgrade SS, then I'd be all for DeAndre McDaniel even though you and Chris aren't greatly fond of him. lol. Glad you see that about Tony McDaniel too. Do you think we could fetch a high to mid 2nd for Odrick? I think he's shown enough in preseason etc to still be a hot commodity. I wouldn't mind trading him outright for a great back or Oline, but I'd rather go after Mankins and a back in FA instead. Odrick becoming Kye Rudolph has been in my mind a lot. That kills 2 birds with one stone--- gives us our #2 TE while providing an upgrade to Fasano in a few years. That's 1 piece to your puzzle. What's Cheeseburger Carey's trade value now? a 3rd? Last question: is this a draft that you would use a future 1st to grab a RT or even Wisniewski (or any of the key missing pieces so we wouldn't have to wait an extra year)?
He isn't as powerful a runner though TP. DE Massequoi though, he had the type of length and explosion coming from a small college that will see him drafted in the 6th rd or so.
you know he's a WR right? lol. j/k. Agree on Massequoi. He should catch a few eyes before draft day once the tape is on.
