I think that would be a waste and I wouldn't be happy with the pick. Getting good football players is one thing but pass rushing is the biggest strength of Koa Misi's game right now. I wish more people could see that. He's not there yet on the instincts and the real linebacker play, the ability to cover, etc. Just because he's not Cameron Wake, and he doesn't have that outside speed rush, doesn't mean the guy can't pass rush. You take Von Miller and put him at Misi's spot then put Misi inside, you downgrade at least one position and probably two positions. That makes no sense to me. UNLESS you're thinking along the lines of cashing in on Cameron Wake now, while his value could not possibly be higher, and getting something ridiculous for him. Just putting that out there. Makes more sense than moving Koa inside and taking Von Miller to replace his outside spot. If you think about it, right now, Miami could probably ask a 1st and 3rd for Wake. Maybe more.
Since he's such a hustle player (and by all accounts fairly smart) I'm curious as to how he'd do paired next to Dansby.
No im definitely not thinking of moving Wake. hes far to valuable. Me and you have differed on this issue for most of the season regarding Misi. I do understand and agree that if you move Misi inside, it may downgrade ILB, which is why I would keep Dobbins and rotate them. Misi can cover IMO, how much he can cover a seem is a different story. But he has the athletic ability to do it, hes already good at covering the backs and TEs in the flat. I would also let him play OLB in certain situations. I think Misi has a TON of potential, a TON. If he can IMO improve his pass rush, a lot, hes could to be a great one, but Misi had what 5 sacks his senior year? and 3 1/2 this year, with 2 of them off the top of my head being complete coverage sacks. Hes only gotten to the QB quickly on rare occasions. Hes got a decent bullrush(which would fit in at ILB also), but not much else. Im not sure he has the feel for the pass rush....Thats just my opinion CK.
The guy is Mike Vrabel incarnate. We'll be pretty darn happy with him if we just leave him alone and let him get better, IMO.
Well, the real problem with the Lb Corps is not the starters, especially at OLB and Dansby, the problem is the backup guys..err...lack talent, Q is not scaring anyone in any phase of the game, we need some better depth out on the edges and it would help if they could manage to play well on Special Teams. The waiver claim on Shawn Merriman is something that goes to that lack of quality pieces at OLB as he was the most stop gapish player I've ever seen Ireland chose to try to sign. Keep an eye on Phillip Hunt being worked out this December as teams are beginning to look at developmental guys to put on the practice squad in January.
Yeah, I agree with this. We're set for a while at our starters at OLB. I don't see the need to mess with that when there are other needs. They do however need depth guys that can come in and rush the passer. I wouldn't spend a pick in the first 2 rounds and maybe not even a 3rd on an OLB, but I think it will be addressed at some point.
With the offenses' problems though, it would make more sense to add there via the draft and look around for OLB depth via FA or even the UFL or CFL imho. If hunt could be signed for say the price of a 4th rd pick that could be a G or C or Te.
Besides, with respect to Von Miller, why would I want Von Miller in the 1st round when I could have Chris Carter in a later round? Carter is the next Cameron Wake.
That's a decent prospect right there. Watched him against Illinois for the first time a couple weeks ago and was a little impressed.
A 1st and (2)3rds I believe. If that's the case, I wouldn't mind using that on DaQuan Bowers and have him for years. I think he can play OLB at 270.
You want to be more than just a little impressed? Watch his Wisconsin game from 2009 or his Cincinnati game from 2010. You don't stop him. You hope to contain him. If he's used like an OLB in a 3-4, he will be a star.
Yeah I've got to watch more of him. I've got him on my list, just haven't gotten to him yet. I'll form my own thoughts on him pretty soon. I watched the Illinois game in realtime and saw him.
Yeah tell me what you think when you watch. He's Cameron Wake before Wake got as polished as he did this year. The most impressive thing about him to me is that here he is going against people that outweigh him by 70 to 100 pounds, and he is straight standing them up in the run blocking. Entire Wisconsin game I probably saw him on the ground three times, and one of the times he kind of put himself on the ground by slipping. And they ran at him some, too. Well I guess I don't want to get too far into him so you can form your own thoughts...but I like the kid. Like, more than a friend.
Well, is there a cost to playing time ratio with him though? Steelers would of course snatch him, you have watched the Dolphins all yr, would he be worth a high pick if he rarely played (assuming things go according to plan that is)?
About Chris Carter again, I kid you not during the Cincinnati game Trent Dilfer went over the 8-point plan that Cincinnati developed in their offensive game plan to try and slow Chris Carter down: 1) Change sets of tackle, 2) Tight End body presence, 3) Chip him with backs & tight ends, 4) Full slides to him, 5) Cut him, 6) Zone read, 7) Don't block him "jet sweep", 8) Screen to him. They did every single one of those, they weren't BS'ing. And he still had 3 sacks en route to a night when Fresno State had like 7 sacks total. Can you imagine? One player has you game planning all that, and he still gets 3 sacks on you, and the attention you give him helps the rest of his linemates get 4 more sacks? Now, Cincinnati's offensive line sucks...but still. My god. He's a terror. The NFL is reaching a point where those smaller pass rushers can play on the outsides, especially in 3-4 defenses, and wreak havoc, yet still hold up ok in the run game. You have guys like Cameron Wake, Elvis Dumervil, James Harrison, Clay Matthews, Robert Mathis...none of them fit the mold. I fully believe Chris Carter will be the next in that line.
If we hypothetically got a mid 1st and (2) 3rds for Wake, we could essentially trade back our 1st, grab Moch AND Carter with the 2nd & 3rd..... and still have the 1st and 3rd left over. How crazy would that be. lol. Then if we traded our original 1st back.... we could have: (2) late 1sts (1) 2nd (2) 3rds with Moch & Carter to battle it out or rotate at OLB Mankins in FA..... Blackmon & Wisniewski in the 1st..... Hunter in the 2nd........ Kendricks or Williams in the 3rd..... Little in the 4th. Our entire offense would be balanced & set for years. (Don't forget Jernigan with the other 3rd. ) (or maybe it's late and my Ambien is kicking in & making me loopy.... but hey, this is the kind of crap that the Patriots do)
Dontay Moch has speed. He's not quick off the snap, but steps 2, 3 and 4 are ridiculous. But he's not consistently strong and he needs to become more than a speedy edge rusher. I want to see a greater compliment of rush moves. I don't see that. Yep he can crush his hips and use that inside arm to get under and get leverage and he closes with great pace. But if you want to be really special, then get in the weight room and apply some other tactics to your game.
BTW I didn't mean to just ignore this but I haven't looked at Dontay Moch yet and Simon has so I thought I'd let him comment on Moch. All I can vouch for is Chris Carter, who is a terrific edge prospect.
This is an interesting topic because I think in Rounds 3-4 the Dolphins could look to add depth or a rotational player to go with the duo of Wake and Misi. * Dontay Moch has had a productive season with 20 TFL and 8.5 sacks but the level of compition he is playing against warrants some concern. Moch has great speed which will have him rise on draft boards after the combine. I believe he runs the 4.5-4.6 range. *I'd prefer Chris Carter who seems to be a pure sleeper in this draft. I think this guy can come in and make a pass-rsuhing difference immediatly. His pass-rushing skillset is impressive and has a great motor to go along with that.
This is a very important draft for this Miami Dolphins franchise. Their recent drafts and free agency periods have really bolstered the defense which has ebcome a top five defense in the league. The emergence of Chris Clemons, Vontae Davis, Paul Soliai, and Cameron Wake has really helped this unit turn the corner. The offense isn't too far off. Jake Long and Vernon Carey can anchor this offensive line but they most improve the interior play. Their wide receivers (Marshall, Hartline, and Bess) have been very productive. This draft needs to focus on the offense and I would say our needs in order are...QB,OG,RB,OC,TE, WR, OLB The Quarterback position is one we have to fulfill through the draft. The free agent crop is poor and Chad Pennington isn't making a recovery this time. Andrew Luck, Ryan Mallett, and Cameron Newton have no chance falling to us in the 18-21 pick range. Jake Locker has a chance and I think this guy is worth a serious look. He has not had a stellar season but look at what the guy is working with. His natural skillset is as good as any Quarterback in this draft. I don't buy the hype surrounding Christian Ponder or Pat Devlin. Ponder seems to play poorly in big games and people are thinking Joe Flacco when they see Devlin but that is not the case. Flacco was far more productive at Delaware and Devlin does not have the arm strength like Flacco by any means. One guy who I will refer to as the wild-card is Nick Foles from Arizona. After this I don't see anyone who can come in and answer our need for a starting QB. *I absolutley love the talent at the OG position in this draft. My favorite player being Marcus Cannon out of TCU. Despite being an OT at TCU I think he translates to a Left Guard at the next level. Next, I like Orlando Franklin out of the U. Mammoth of a man with great strength. Ben Ijalana, Clint Boling, Justin Boren, Steve Schilling, and John Moffitt are all other plays that come in and start right away. *Mark Ingram would be a perfect fit and if he is available when we draft please pull the trigger Mr. Ireland. I pass on Ryan Williams, Mike Leshoure, Jacquizz Rodgers, and Shane Vareen. Daniel Thomas is a power back that fits our system, Noel Devine is that speedster we currently lack, and Kendall Hunter is a little bit of both. Evan Royster is another guy that could slide under the radar who runs with a pyhiscalness I covet. *Joe Berger is fine but is a downgrade from the player we thought we were getting when we broke the bank for Jake Grove. Stefen Wisniewski is a the class of this position but I don't think he warrants a 1st round pick. It's a pretty weak OC class in my opinion. *DJ Williams is my favorite tight end in this draft. He is a good vertical threat and an above average blocker.Another guy I like is Lance Kendricks . Great blocker and reminds me of Jermichael Finley. *I don't know who we can grab in the 5th round range would could bring some speed to our offense but if Dwayne Harris was to some how fall to us I like that pick. *Chris Carter out of Fresno State is a baller to quote the great Deion Sanders. To me the pick has to be between Ingram or Locker or trading down to grab a Nick Foles and acquiring a 2nd round pick. The 3rd and 4th Rounds can find you a RB and an interior offensive linemen. It's way too early because we don't have a "declared" list but I think it's safe to say that a lot of underclassmen will break the bank and leave college.
I'll bite. The primary reason I wouldn't draft Jake Locker is because he does not see the field or make decisions in a timely manner. He lacks anything even CLOSE to the polish you would expect to see of a four year starter. I don't care that this is only his second season in a pro style offense. Many guys don't even get that much, and they still come out way, way, way more polished. Take the mile high view. Everyone acknowledges the guy is RAW as an oyster, right? Some people are cool with that. But, WHY is he raw? Does anyone ask that question? Not often enough, if you ask me. The guy is a four year starter. He's got way more experience than other guys out there. Andrew Luck looked ridiculously more polished in his redshirt freshman year, his first in any college offense forget it being his first in a pro style offense, than Jake Locker looks in his fourth year starting, his second in the pro style offense. What's worse is Sarkisian has clearly adapted the pro style offense he wanted to fit Locker better, by adding more of the zone-read stuff, and simplifying the reads so that Locker could get the ball out quickly off the snap without reading the field. So who is winning that battle, between Sarkisian and Locker? Locker is. He's pulling Sarkisian further away from a pro system as opposed to Sarkisian pulling Locker away from being an option quarterback. Pat Devlin is not overhyped because people think he's a Joe Flacco. He is hyped by people who have actually seen him play football, and so they know he's not Joe Flacco. After that, people that have not seen him play look at his rating, look at his situation, and then say "Flacco". Those are not the people that actually control where the people in the know rate guys, though. People in the know rate Devlin high because he has a super quick and yet fully over-the-top delivery, because he regularly reads the field down to his 3rd and 4th options, he shows a timing and a quickness while doing this, he throws with anticipation, he slides naturally and easily in the pocket with good feet and a feel for passing lanes, he's able to improvise and think quickly, and despite his being in a shotgun offense, his footwork is some of the best in the Draft. He knows how to look off defenders in order to free up the players he wants, and his arm is very lively when he's able to step into his throws. One big drawback is, when he can't step into his throws, he doesn't show a good arm. Another big drawback is, when you don't protect him well, he can take some sacks. But he's a leader, has active communication with his offensive players, can run an offense that features formation shifts and protection calls at the line, and right now he's got his team in the FCS Semi-Finals...we'll see how far that goes. His back story checks out, he was one of the best pro style High School QBs the state of Pennsylvania has ever seen, and that state has produced some Hall of Fame caliber QBs. He went to Penn State and lost the QB competition to Daryll Clark because the Penn State offense switched to their "Spread HD" attack, and Clark fit it better. Joe Paterno swore by Devlin's talent all the way to the end, and it's not surprising that in 2008 he had something like a 10.0 YPA and 4 passing TDs with 2 more rushing TDs, and 0 INTs...in relief of Clark. That year, Devlin decided it would be in his best interest to transfer, and he transferred to Delaware rather than another FBS school where he'd have to sit out a year by NCAA rules. It was a sound decision, Delaware had just produced a 1st rounder in the 2008 Draft in Joe Flacco, and Flacco had a similar story to Devlin's. Not to mention, Flacco was in the middle of a very successful NFL rookie season...when Devlin made that decision. I would probably rate Devlin in the 2nd to 3rd round right now. The Senior Bowl will be a big part of his grade. I don't know how anyone can watch Marcus Cannon play football and come away liking him. He's a big, dumb, soft, totally unathletic POS on the field. Firing straight forward is the only thing the guy can do. But of the names you mention, I do really like Justin Boren as a classic mauling Right Guard, and John Moffitt as either a Left Guard or a Center, and I adore Orlando Franklin. My previous studies of Daniel Thomas have not suggested to me that he has the speed or quickness to really be a threat at the next level. Mikel LeShoure absolutely does, not to mention the great size and power, but he's got a little hitch/hesitation in his short yardage work which suggests he's not a guy that has a natural feel for or the quick ability to diagnose the hole and hit it consistently. His cutback game is non-existent. On the other hand, it's hard to imagine someone being worse than Ronnie Brown at that stuff, and LeShoure does seem like a natural catcher. Kendall Hunter is wonderful. His gear up and direction change are superb. His vision and sense for the cutback are both top notch. The big weakness with him is, if he's working in Miami's style of ground game, then he's at more of a disadvantage than he should be. He's not JUST a cutback guy, he has the vision, speed and leg strength to do it all. But his BEST system is going to be the cutback system. And his instincts may always be to find the crease and cutback, rather than pressing straight forward. For pressing forward, he's not as great a tackle shaker and physical plower as you could want. He's a pedestrian blocker, and he's not used much in the passing game. Ryan Williams I rate above him on the field even though I love Hunter. Williams has the cutback ability, but he also has the straight ahead power and ability to shake tacklers in impressive fashion. He can break away from the pack and kill people with his speed. When I see a guy like him I also see a guy that is going to continue getting a little bigger and stronger. The only questions I would have about him are off the field, in the locker room, on the practice field, etc. Is he going to stay out of trouble and be a good teammate? Is he going to stay uninjured? Mark Ingram is a very solid back and I like him a lot, but I'm not sure about his top end at the NFL level. To me, he's too much of what Miami already has in Ricky Williams. Miami needs an infusion of youth, tackle breaking, and speed. Does Ingram have that package? I'm not so sure. I could go either way. Dwayne Harris is too similar to things we already have with Davone Bess. He's not the kind of player to stretch the field. He's probably going to work the slot at the next level, or be a half-slot player. I agree he's a good player and it's eery how often he's able to make that first guy miss after the catch or with the ball in his hands...but a lot of people are convinced that what we need is the down the field type that we hoped Ted Ginn would be...and that's not Harris' game.
Good information man. I appreciate the discussion. Locker certainly lacks the polish but can the Dolphins afford another year with Henne at the helm? I DVR'd the Delaware game from Friday night and plan on watching Devlin. I live in Washington D.C and hear a lot about him . I think we need to find a QB this off-season. I doubt the Dolphins will be aggressive enough to make a move for a Luck or a Newton. * You seem pretty sold on Devlin. Round 1? * I feel if we can find a QB in R1, a RB in R3, and an OG in R4 than we really have something, should we splash and get a Logan Mankins maybe take Moffitt in R4 to take over the Center spot from Berger. *Marcus Cannon is as strong as an ox. I think he could make the move from Left Tackle to Left Guard where he would play in less space. I think Cannon has struggled a but with the move from Right Tackle where he played last season to Left Tackle where he is lined up this year. Cannon has really long arms and can get to the next level. * I am going to name a few prospects and would like you to give me a round where you project the get drafted....Kendall Hunter, Lance Kendricks, DJ Williams, Orlando Franklin, Marcus Cannon, John Moffitt, Stefen Wisniewski, Chris Carter, Drake Nevis, Demarcus Love, Allen Bailey,
CK - you make Devlin sound pretty similar to Pennington (not a big arm, great at reads / anticipation, leader). Does that give some credence to this FO looking at him in the 1st? Also - would you take him in the first? Do you think he provides an upgrade over Henne?
What's the general consensus on Steven Friday from VA Tech, I know I watched him dominate against Boston College and a likely 1st rounder in Anthony Costanzo. He is going to be 25 I believe, but he has a tendency to get into the back field and I think that he can be had in the 4th. Also as far as Inside Linebacker is Casey Matthews worth keeping an eye on? He seems a bit undersized but he's such a playmaker, and the last Matthews that came out seems to be doing fine.
You don't know a guy is Chad Pennington until you sit him in a room and talk to him but he's got intangibles. He's definitely a leader. I guess I would say yes he does somewhat compare with Chad Pennington. I think he drives the football with better velocity when he gets his feet under him. Until the bullets start flying and you're asking these guys to deal with an NFL pocket, you don't know anything. I can't say he's an upgrade over Henne. I can say he's a good prospect that's worth investing in and trying to develop.
The point on Locker is, whether you draft him or not, don't count on him playing for you for a LONG time. Four years of starting in college and he's STILL raw. Two years in a pro style system and he STILL doesn't get it. How long is it going to take? It sure as heck won't be 2011. Sold on Devlin as a worthwhile prospect to invest in and develop? Yes, absolutely. Sold that he's definitely a pro quarterback? No. There's only one guy in this draft that has sold me on that, and Miami doesn't have a shot at him. Right now until I see more at the Senior Bowl I would have to say on Devlin, Round 2 or 3. His physical potential just isn't overwhelming enough to put an FCS guy in the 1st round...not unless he goes to the Senior Bowl and pulls a Phillip Rivers. I do not foresee us taking a QB in the 1st round. You find the prospect first and then you assign the round. Luck and Newton will be gone. There's such need at the QB position among the guys picking ahead of us, that I think Mallett will be gone as well. That leaves Jake Locker and I wouldn't touch him until Round 3 at the earliest. The thing that disturbs me the most about Cannon is he's so fat and slow that he looks lazy in whatever he's doing. That's not going to magically change just because you move him 5 feet to the right. I wouldn't touch the guy. Couldn't pay me to take him. Kendall Hunter could go in Round 2. Lance Kendricks I don't know, I'd only be guessing. D.J. Williams I don't know, same thing. Orlando Franklin could go in the lower 1st round or 2nd. Marcus Cannon should go in the 5th at the earliest. John Moffitt could go as high as Round 2, I would give Franklin the edge over him just because there might be a team that actually sees a Left Tackle in Franklin, which is what he's played all year (and played well). Stefen Wisniewksi I'd just be guessing. If Jerry Hughes can go Round 1, then Chris Carter could go Round 1, but I don't see him climbing beyond Round 2. Drake Nevis could go in Round 2 or 3, it's just a very crowded field at that position especially since I think Cam Heyward should play DT. Demarcus Love I would just be guessing. Allen Bailey had Round 1 tangibles and they're strong enough that I think someone will actually do that, not that they should, but they will.
He's not declared or showed any interest in declaring yet, and right now there are four guys that everyone are considering 1st rounders, looking to come out. I don't think Foles will get 1st round grade from the Advisory Board. I think he'll stay in school.
CK, I've seen you mention a few times that you like Orlando Franklin. Just curious, do you like him at G or T? I know he played both at Miami.
Fans are getting their panties in a wad about our QB situation just like they were with our Defense after least season heading into the draft. Everyone was like "Oh, the defense needs tons of work; the Defense is the weak link of this team; the offense is fine..... use the entire draft on defense.". Blah blah blah. People need to learn to settle down, be patient, and let youth develop under a good OC. We used a 1st round pick on a player we don't need b/c our Dline is clearly pretty dominant right now w/o him. We used a 4th on an LB who hasn't played a snap and we haven't missed him. Some members were already wanting to use our first on Dan Williams to replace Soliai (even though 3-4 NTs take years to develop)...... or a high draft pick on FS to replace Clemons (before he even "truly saw the field")..... and the worst one of all: drafting a pass rusher in the 1st b/c they were "unsure of Wake". You see where I'm going with this? Virtually ALL QBs need time to develop...... which is one of the reasons many teams don't like to rest their franchise on them in the first place. It's a given that 99% of the time they'll initially set your offense back (if they even develop at all, which half the first rounders dont). If you force the issue and drop a 1st rounder on a QB not name Luck, then we'll be set backwards a few years rather than being a year closer. Teams don't become contenders by spending picks on players that aren't necessary. They do become contenders by giving their young QB a good OC and proper talent/weapons to succeed with, as well as a good ground game to help alleviate the pressure of carrying a team on his still-maturing shoulders. I'd hate to see us go 3 years in a row inappropriately using a 1st or 2nd round pick (especially when NE gets so many of them). 2009: 2nd round QB...... 2010: DE....... 2011?: QB. We need to stop having such a hair trigger. We're not catching the Patriots by getting antsy like this and continuously jumping the gun while improperly evaluating our team's talent level.
Makes sense in a loaded QB draft. He maintains what he's done his first few years he'll probably be one of the highest rated QB's coming out next year.
Either. He could replace Vernon Carey at RT or play LG. Putting him on the right side might be unfamiliar for him, you'd have to feel him out on it to see if he's one of those guys that can play either side or if he's one of those guys that just feels in total foreign territory on one side as opposed to the other. The fact that he made a seamless transition from LG to LT is a positive sign. I think Jeff Allen of Illinois (I think Alen mentioned him) would make a good RT as well, if he comes out.
Nick Foles is more than likely returning for his Senior season from what I have heard. Seems like we stick with Henne and look at a Matt Hassleback. I would love Carson Palmer as I think he is failing because of his surroundings. I think we try to trade down and acquire a 2nd rounder again. If not I have no idea where we go. I don't think you take an Orlando Franklin that high... maybe we go after another WR to provide firepower. That is doubtful as well. I don't see any major needs on the defensive side of the ball. Totally baffled here. What are your thoughts?
