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Did Henne just take another baby step in his development?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by adamprez2003, Dec 12, 2010.

  1. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Cmon now. Attempting to throw a deep ball to non-vertical threats once every 2 games is not going to be consistent or productive for ANY QB. This isn't even debatable. There's so much more to it than a quick 1 sentence answer like you just gave. Anyone who's questioning Henne's arm (and intermediate to deep throws) doesn't know his strengths.

    Henne can throw short-intermediate passes, but that's not his strong suit. That's just trying to fit a round peg in a square hole and make him Chad Pennington. He's not Penny. He has a cannon that can fit passes in tight windows down field. Unfortunately, we do NOT have a group of players who allow him to develop any kind of rhythm or rapport doing so. Our receivers are POSSESSION WRs, not intermediate to deep threats.

    You cant just expect a guy to EFFECTIVEL throw ONE deep pass every few games to a guy who isn't a true vertical threat. It doesn't work that way. He needs someone whom he can trust and develop a rapport with. Hartline is NOT a vertical threat. I wish people would stop saying this. Just b/c he can make a move once in a while to beat someone, that does NOT make him a vertical threat.

    Hartline for the most part requires precise placement on deep passes b/c he runs a 4.5. Faster DBs can recover on him when they have 50 yards worth of a pass to buy them recovery time. This makes it riskier for a QB. It's easier to overthrow Hart b/c he lacks true speed; and as such it's easier to underthrow Hart b/c you're trying to drop it right into the bucket.

    HOWEVER, when you're throwing deep to DeSean Jackson (to name a few), no one is recovering if he has a step or 2. Once you're beat, you're beat. A QB doesn't have to worry about precise placement b/c Jackson can freakin run under it (which makes an underthrow less likely). Hartline couldn't run under a blimp. Brian is a quick slot WR playing on the outside. He's out of position IMO.
     
  2. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    This and this again. Excellent post. I wish people would read & heed some of these posts rather than skimming them in order to find points to argue against.
     
  3. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    [video=youtube;Yu3DAlwD5oc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu3DAlwD5oc[/video]
     
  4. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    He's in his 2nd year starting which is WHAT MATTERS. It's called a SOPHOMORE SLUMP for a reason...... and it does NOT get any easier with an OC that most all of knows needs to be canned, an ineffective ground game, injuries, and zero depth at WR & TE, or weapons to help open the offense.

    You can't just decide to selfishly ignore the typical developmental process of a QB just b/c you want the offense and QB play to be on a veteran-type efficient level.

    It's so true what Dilfer (IIRC) said on ESPN: that people love to give QBs too much credit when they win, and too much blame when they lose. What part of "team sport" does not register with you? You seem very intelligent, so I don't get it. To look at our offense and say that ALL the woes fall on the QB is dumbfounding.... as well as saying that the other 10 guys on the field, the bench (depth), or an OC have NOTHING to do with a QBs performance. We've seen FIRST HAND what happened with Manning when his surrounding talent was diminished etc, and he STILL had better talent and a better OC than Henne.

    So you're basically saying that it's ok for one of the best QBs in the history of the game to have problems with an inexperienced and inferior supporting cast, but it's NOT ok for QB who's in his 2nd year playing. That calls for a huge facepalm!!!
     
  5. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I never said Henne isn't part of the problem. He is definitely part of the problem, but to ignore the pathetic running game, injuries, and suspect play calling is not fair.
     
  6. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    To say QB play isnt a large problem with our offense is mind boggling. Yes, we are having other issues, some that arent helping Henne, but just because he isnt it the most perfect situation doesnt mean he has to be this bad. Henne is not in THAT bad of a situation. seriously, lets not act as if hes on the Bills...oops, that Fitzpatrick fella is playing much better then Henne has, on a even worse OL. McNabb has a worse supporting cast, all Detriot QBs are worse off, Kyle Orton, Jason Campbell, Jay Cutler, David Garrard, and possibly Aaron Rodgers whose OL and RBs are worse...all those QBs have worse supporting casts and are better and much much better then Henne.

    People are making an awful lot of excuses for Henne, and while I agree with some of them and disagree with some peoples hate of Henne, Henne is having issues that have nothing to do with supporting cast. Things like pocket presence, things like staring down wide outs, things like issues with zone coverage mostly because of his issue with his ability to anticipate throws and openings, things like his decision making. Henning is not putting him in the best situation, there is no arguing that, there is no doubt about it, but say his absolute awful QB play is on everyone else is just ignorant to say the LEAST!
     
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  7. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    He also stepped into a great offense geared to his play strengths & arm (Driver & Jennings). Henne's in his 3rd year. Right now, Rodgers would still be on the bench in GB.
     
  8. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    Read it and weep...

    http://forums.thephins.com/showthre...to-Henne-in-the-Future&highlight=alternatives

    Among the highlights:

     
  9. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I see you still have 1 rep point. Shocking.
     
  10. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not suggesting that Henne is the only problem on offense. However, I do think there is enough talent there that an above average QB would be performing better and we would liekly be a playoff team.

    And I certainly understand that for a young player there are going to be bumps and bruises along the way. However, I do not think it is unreasonable to expect that Henne should be playing better by now, in the areas he can control. Reading zone defenses, better ball placement, sliding in the pocket to buy more time, knowing when and how to throw to a guy who is covered downfield but with a chance to make a play rather than always checking down.

    We both agree that we need a new OC and a few better pieces. The only difference is that I am not convinced that those better pieces are going to make a huge difference in what you see out of Henne.
     
  11. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    But whose fault is it really that Henne doesnt throw deep more? I think people need to get it out of their head that just because we dont throw a straight go route that Henne throws to, doesnt mean we dont run deep routes. There are other deep routes other then the straight go, that I have seen us run, and Henne checks down. constantly. constantly. There are such things in this league as 4.5 guys that are deep threats.

    Also, I agree with that Henning is part of the problem...
     
  12. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    They've really gone out of their way to get him more weapons to work with..... and please do NOT say "but they grabbed Marshall". That doesn't cut it. We prioritized a stupid luxury project pick over finding Henne another player. We don't get him a TE. We take away his vertical threat. We give him ZERO depth at WR. We don't get him a COP back who can bail him out in the passing game. That's not acceptable.
     
  13. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Wrong..... b/c if Manning can have problems with inexperienced and less talented skill players around him (despite still having Wayne), then so can ANYONE.
     
  14. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree that we should've drafted Dez. But that's this regime's philosophy (defense/o-line over playmakers) independent of any evaluation of Henne. If Penny was still the starter we still wouldn't have drafted Dez.
     
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  15. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    And you neglect to mention that his TEAM & coaching got them to that SB. That "team" was already set for him to ride it. It was established with veterans and talent who were already pretty well gelled together.
     
  16. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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  17. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Yes but his problems are resulting in him having the 3rd most TD passes in the league and completing 67% of his passes. Yes hes throwing more INTs but hes still having a good season. And let me tell you, I forgot about him when I listed everyone with a worse supporting cast. His OL is much worse, has the worst run game in the NFL, and outside of Wayne is playing with much worse players then anyone on our team.

    So no, your wrong for trying to compare. He has a terrible team at 7-6. Henne has a good one there.
     
  18. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Yup... and the Falcons should've drafted someone last year to replace Ryan after his Soph season slump.
     
  19. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    The pats were what? 6-10 the year before Brady? your telling me they just all the sudden had such a great team, nearly any QB could have had success there?

    EDIT: 5-11 were the Pats before Brady.
     
  20. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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  21. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Brady didn't have a QB rating over 86 during his 1st 4 years. He wasn't exactly the Brady then that he is now.
     
  22. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Inexperienced? Davone Bess just got his second contract. Brandon Marshall just got his second contract. Anthony Fasano just got his second contract. So what are you looking at? Are you looking at Brian Hartline in his second year and saying that he is inexperienced? When exactly does inexperience leave and "prime" take over Mr. Soothsayer?

    ..........and why have you not answered the question of "What are Chad Henne's strengths?" You seem to have every other players PROBLEMS identified. It would seem to me that you have found Chad Henne's strength by now.
     
  23. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    :lol: He's only had 1 season.... :lol:
     
  24. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    [video=youtube;Yu3DAlwD5oc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu3DAlwD5oc[/video]
     
  25. FaninPatsyLand

    FaninPatsyLand The Truth

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    Its all in the link to the thread I posted. In fact, there was too much to quote.

    Hilarious stuff.
     
  26. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    QB rating is overrated! The biggest difference is his first 4 years he rarely threw the ball deep. He was less of a risk taker, thats the only reason he had a QB rating under 86 those 4 years. His completion % and TD/INT ratio were great for his first four years.
     
  27. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    [video=youtube;9t-r2HASo5M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t-r2HASo5M[/video]
     
  28. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    It is Henning's playbook..... which by default has Penny being suited for it. I used Penny as the example b/c we all know Penny's style of play etc. And Penny's style of play is different than Henne's. My point still stands. lol. :tongue2:
     
  29. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Saying that an offense that is clearly designed and player-constructed around a Pennington type QB will still maximize Henne's potential is flat out ignorant. Making yourself look silly just to maintain an opposing viewpoint of me is..... well it's silly.
     
  30. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jake Delhomme played well for a few years under that system, and he is no Penny clone.

    None of this argument is meant to defend Henning, but a good Qb should be able to play in any system.
     
  31. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    That's what happens when you have slow 4.5 guys who aren't fast enough to run under passes which, as a result, forces a QB to be even more precise with his downfield throws.

    With a 4.5, 4.55, & 4.6 guy (Hartline, Marshall, Bess), you basically have to drop it RIGHT IN their BREADBASKET b/c if you overthrow them, they're TOO SLOW to catch up to it..... and even if it's precise, their SLOW SPEED allows a faster DB time to recover b/c the QB can't afford to lead him as much. If you lead them, you can overthrow them or give the DB time to recover. If you lead DeSean Jackson, he's running under it and no DB is catching him when he has a step.

    When you're forced to "drop it in the bucket", then it's MUCH easier to underthrow a pass compared to airing it out to a 4.3 Mike Wallace when you can "let it fly" without having to worry about overthrowing him. I can't believe you don't understand these simple concepts.
     
  32. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Silly? Hellfire! Rapture will arrive. You will look at Satan and your last comment on this earth will be "Save Chad Henne!"

    Of course that will be one day after another 55 yard performance but who is counting.
     
  33. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Get him a TE who can threaten the seam, a ground game, and a WR who can stretch the field..... and see for yourself. He's a QB who can make ALL the throws downfield if he has the weapons to do so. We do not have those weapons.
     
  34. Auburn

    Auburn New Member

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    There aren't any top backs coming out this year and Ingram is not a top NFL back, at least I do not believe so. Imagine Cam Newton on this team? Ticket sales alone would sky rocket. Only question is do you use a 1st round pick on a QB, that not everyone is 100% certain is an NFL type QB. But I think Cam has the arm, athleticism and legs to be great, like Steve Young was. I know I am biased but I think the D is solid, the receivers are good, the QB is just not that dynamic and does not scare anyone. He is basically Drew Bledsoe light? I say if we can get Cam, we take him!
     
  35. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'm not sure I would call 75 yards "good" vs an Oakland secondary that was greatly injured, including Nnamdi. He beat a rookie CB on one play vs Cleveland... but was basically blanketed by him otherwise with zero catches. I'm not sure I'd call 70 yards "good" vs Chicago when 28 came with Marshall in the game. These type of games are certainly not the type of performances that I'd be "protecting" IMO.
     
  36. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    I feel the need to chime in solely because I was at the game and I saw first hand what it looked like. HENNE PLAYED HORRIBLY. No ifs,ands or buts about it. I purposely sat thru that terrible weather to see Henne for my self. What I saw was a QB who was very indecisive,who was totally lost most of the game and who also had zero poise in the pocket. Ok, it was just one game in terrible weather but that doesnt take away from the fact that this guy is NOT the real deal. I`m not coming to this conclusion based solely on yesterdays performance either it is now very clear to me that Henne will not be a starter for the Dolphins much longer. He`ll probably finish out the season then its see ya later. I honestly believe that.
    .There were open receivers on a lot of the plays but Henne either didnt read the defense properly or he was just very shaky in the pocket and chose to check down instead. It was very frustrating to say the least. I saw Sparano shake his head constantly as Henne was trotting off the field after yet another anemic offensive series.

    Folks, please realize the obvious once and for all. Henne just doesnt have it. I`m giving up on him. If you choose to still back him ,be my guest,just be prepared for a lot of heartache and frustration.
     
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  37. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    [video=youtube;dTOcAt44_QA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTOcAt44_QA[/video]
     
  38. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'm sorry but I have to respectfully disagree. The 08 team was more talented. Our backs have greatly lost a step. The Oline is marred with injury and inconsistency. We are lacking a seam threatening TE that 08 had in Martin (which is greatly overlooked). We're lacking a vertical threat (Ginn) to better open the underneath game. Marshall has missed 2.5 games, and when he's out, the talent between 08 and 10 aren't remotely close.
     
  39. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I don't think anyone believes Henne isn't "part of the problem". However, too many people IMO place TOO MUCH of the offensive woes on Henne...... and to many people don't understand what it truly is like for a 2nd year QB (or their developmental process).
     
  40. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    It's Chad Henne!

    [video=youtube;X2bpu3kIcpQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2bpu3kIcpQ&feature=related[/video]

    [video=youtube;9INzbx247zM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9INzbx247zM&feature=related[/video]

    [video=youtube;yYEhzCGHU_U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYEhzCGHU_U&feature=related[/video]
     

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