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Did Henne just take another baby step in his development?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by adamprez2003, Dec 12, 2010.

  1. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not 100% sure Tony Sparano will be our head coach next year...
     
  2. bg34

    bg34 Junior Member

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    Can blame the weather to an extent, but he should have been at least 10/18. Threw behind a few times on recievers crossing, and did anyone see that throw over Bess' head on sideline? WOW that was the final nail in coffin for me with Henne. He wasn't pressured, didn't get hit, Bess was open and just watched it sail over his head. Horrible. And it wasn't a throw away either.
     
  3. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    We were playing against a pretty good defense. The scheme is very questionable as always. Tom Brady does fine with crap when he has it. Marino had no running game ever and a crap line most of the time.
     
  4. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    The option to put up is on the table. Show me this talented team. Everyone, including our QB sucked tonight. But if you want to imply that the offense sucked solely because of him, I want proof of this. He doesn't run block, pass block, call plays, or run routes.
     
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  5. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    not sure. i would give him another year but would coaches whose jobs are on the line do the same? its a huge question going into 2011
     
  6. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    Did you see receivers waving their hands wide open while the ball was being tossed away? I'm the only one I guess.
     
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  7. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Barring an amazing finish to the season I don't see how anyone can justify giving Henne another year to prove himself. He has done nothing but regress in his second season. Good quarterbacks don't do that. They just don't. You don't risk/waste another year hoping he can get things right.

    The search continues...
     
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  8. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    i think the so called talent on the offensive side was seriously overestimated by our coaches and our fans, myself included. The offensive line has been the worst its been since 2007. Ronnie and Ricky arent running at an elite or even very good level. The QB is young, inexperienced and still learning and our TE is good for a #2 but he's below average for a #1. And we could use just one receiver who could run a 4.3 to stretch the defenses we face
     
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  9. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I can name one play in which that happened, the sideline route to Bess. Apparently that happened on every throw. Consider the four sacks. The rollout to the right on 3rd and 3. The Marshall, Bess, and Moore drops, Fasano never being open. Now try again.
     
  10. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    matt ryan did, joe flacco did. should they have been cut or benched?
     
  11. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    How has he regressed? I think he's made some progression in a few areas.
     
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  12. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I agree that it was overvalued. People bought the Marshall hype not considering he was in a McDaniels offense with Eddie Royal who ran a 4.3, and Knowshon Moreno who actually got near 1,000 yards. They also had Peyton Hillis that year and Tony Scheffler who can catch passes. This year he's playing with a number 2 that scares no one. A TE that can't get open, a weak RB stable, and a terribad O Line. I severely overestimated our offense. While some people want to place that all on Henne, I prefer to slather it on everyone from HC to QB to OC to everyone else playing on O.
     
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  13. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    Some drops, some poor throws. How can you tell who was not open on each play? I have to give 50% of the blame of this offensive poop to the QB. I give 30% to Mr. Henning. We suck on offense.
     
  14. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    think he meant statistically but i could be wrong. he's doing alot of things better than last year but he's facing better gameplans from defensive coordinators and he doesnt have the talent around him to get the spotlight off him
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    considering they passed on him in the early 2nd, I think perception is not reality in this case.
     
  16. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Well, I usually can tell because I don't watch solely for entertainment. I study all of the replays. I have never seen a QB throw to covered receivers and succeed. Think about it. That game saw us pass 18 times and run 30 times. Henne had to run for his life 4 times. And he was sacked 4 times. The ratio of Henne lead plays to run/broken plays not on him was 36:18. I would count the fumble but it's a wet ball.

    The run was 2x more important in this game but accounted for no scores and a fumble. Subtract a necessary throw away in the red zone early, three drops. Henne, as I can remember, is 5 for 14. Still bad. Now, factor in a top 10 defense in bad weather. The only team I see play better in bad weather is the Patriots. Most QB's will miss at least 4 passes due to bad weather. Look at the plays in which no one was open but he had to throw it away or take a sack. I mean Mark Sanchez was 17/44 for goodness sakes. I think with the playcalls, drops, weather, and caliber of defense we played, this is what we should have expected. Consider we also had Hartline the last game then the possibility of a good passing game just goes down even more.
     
  17. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    Thats reasonable. Has your mind crossed into a hypothetical argument involving a game we play with another teams QB under center, or just another QB drafted within 2 years of our that does not suck as much? Scheme or QB?
     
  18. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Really? We must be watching different games. I'm seeing turnovers in key situations, poor throws, not too many TDs.
     
  19. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Honestly, I don't see it happening. One common thread between Flacco, Ryan, and early 2010 Sanchez was the talent on offense. Every young QB in the NFL relies on two players to save their asses, a checkdown RB, and a big TE to catch passes. While Flacco had super professional veteran Todd Heap, Ryan had Hall of Famer Tony Gonzalez, and Sanchez had Keller, Henne had Fasano. This not only pads stats but it also helps with development as the QB becomes more comfortable making other reads knowing that in trouble, that guy can be relied on. Henne would have benefited greatly for the combo of Fasano and Martin of 2008. As for RB, Ray Rice came on for Flacco who also had McGahee and McClain. Ryan had an elite Turner with good backup Jason Snelling. Sanchez had Thomas Jones last year and has a HOFer in LT this year.

    Matt Ryan, by no stretch, looked like **** in year 2 with a much better supporting cast. Sanchez started off better with a better cast as well with the addition of Pro-Bowl caliber Holmes and a solid gameplan. Flacco looked bad in year two as well with a great cast and still isn't looking much better than last year. Wins have this crazy way of masking ineptitude. We did not have a system built for a young QB going through mistakes. I think with our system, we would fail any QB because we just aren't putting them in the right position to win. Hindsight makes us want Ryan but Ryan has an elite TE, WR, RB, solid Line, and good D. The decks were stacked in those players favor and only 1 of them has really taken hold of the opportunity.
     
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  20. finfaninilinois

    finfaninilinois Active Member

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    slowmo - were'nt you 1 of the ones bashing thigpen for having such a bad game and he was also running for his life and getting sacked and even more frequently than henne just did!!!!! and didnt thigpen pas for 170 or so yards????but he was bad, but it is OK for henne under the same circumstances. on one hand hand you use the weather excuse for henne and on the other hand you blame receivers for drops....get a f'in grip

    get a clue HENNE is one of the worst QB's we have ever had right now I would put him in ray lucas and cleo lemon status
     
  21. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I didn't comment on the Thigpen game against the Bears that much actually. I got so turned off from his bad play in the first half that I could barely watch the second. Most of my qualms with the guy is that as a starter he is 1-12. Oh wait sorry. I took you seriously at first because I hadn't read where you put him in Cleo Lemon and Ray Lucas territory. Either you don't know Ray Lucas completed more passes in a game to the defense than the offense and are pretty young, or you're intentionally not making sense. Either way that was a joke of a post.
     
  22. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    Flacco didn't regress. He's done nothing but get better.

    I'd love to have Ryan's second season. 22 TD's and 14 INT's? Sign me up. Henne doesn't know how to finish a season with more TD's than INT's.
     
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  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I wonder how much of his anticipation was because of scripted plays. I mean, the Dolphins are tops, or near the top, in points scored on the first drive. It seems that as games progress, Henne looks worse and worse. He was really looking good early in the game. But, as good as we apparently are on opening drives, we just really suck as games go on and on.
     
  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Has Flacco really gotten better? Up until about the halfway point of this season, Henne was beating Flacco in most every statistical category, including passer rating.
     
  25. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    He also doesn't know what it's like to throw to a HOF TE, elite WR (when they're playing elite), and have an elite reliable RB behind him. Part of development is having a cushion that won't magnify your mistakes and having other players help you out. From what ckparrot said, around 5 INT's weren't his fault. Which would give him 13 and 10 on the season. Supporting cast plays a huge role on what a young QB can do.
     
  26. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yup. Flacco has only gotten better. Ryan regressed a little, but since he had such a good rookie year, his regression is still better than anything Henne has sniffed.
     
  27. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    i guess statistically flacco got better but ryan regressed statistically in his 2nd season from a 87 to a 80 QB rating. Personally I saw all of them get better every year and I include Henne. The development process of QBs is far longer than any other position and it takes longer to see the fruits of the investment. People get hung up with stats but you could have a worse year statistically and have improved at the same time. So many factors. But I will say that there is very little seperating Henne and Flacco right now. Flacco has more escapability and is more aggressive and is more confident but the two are following very siumilar career paths. The main difference is the talent that surrounds them.This isnt to praise Henne necessarily since Flacco isnt that good yet but most believe he is
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2010
  28. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Jdang, when will you compare apples to apples here. Flacco and Ryan have gotten better as their TEAMS have gotten better. Roddy White has been on an upward swing these past 3 years, Michael Turner is still a burner, and Tony Gonzalez is a god to Anthony Fasano. Joe Flacco benefited from Ray Rice turning it on in 2009, another 1k season from Derrick Mason, and Todd Heap. If Flacco didn't get better with the addition of ANQUAN BOLDIN, T. J. Houshmandzadeh, and Donte Stallworth, he should be shot. You can intentionally block out facts all you want but come on.
     
  29. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    i wonder how much is confidencce. For the first time I'm worried that Henne is believing to doubt himself
     
  30. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    While I can appreciate that argument, I assume you are saying the problem is our scheme. We have an average TE, a couple of really good WRs, pretty good RBs, Decent line, (line looks a lot better when your play calling does not suck), and a really good D. You take a Marshall who gets a bunch of TDs in Denver and bring him here for very few. You take pretty damn good backs and don't give them the ball. I think the scheme sucks big time. I don't think we are that far off talent wise.
     
  31. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    We have one good WR. There, I said it. Hartline is miles away from Green Bay's number four, Jordy Nelson or Houston's number 3 Kevin Walter. Yes, I compared them because they're white. Or let's take a spin around the league to other number twos. Malcolm Floyd, Donald Driver, Pierre Garcon (or Austin Collie), Hakeem Nicks. The guy just doesn't stack up. As for RB's, no one could chastize me for saying they have all lost a step and lack elite speed. I would rather have Michael Bush and Darren McFadden. Oline, nope. Jerry is a rookie who can improve. McQuistan is a backup. Berger is a backup. Incognito is an okay starter. Our biggest differences come in how we evaluate the other pieces on offense.
     
  32. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Because he's had so many chances to do so?

    I mean, I'm not saying he'll do it this year, but it's not like he's at an insurmountable deficit right now or that the sample size of seasons is huge.
     
  33. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    not sure. you might be right. maybe henne felt more comfortable throwing before the break because he practiced those plays. maybe as the game evolves you start running plays that you havent necessarily practiced
     
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  34. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    IMO Henne had a good game with all things considered.

    It was raining; his protection was poor and untrusting; the ground game was weak; his receivers had very little separation from what I could tell; not to mention it clearly hurts us when we're reduced to 2 veterans at WR and 1 at TE (if you can even call them all veterans) when we're facing a "non-injured" secondary. He picked up a valuable 13 yards with his feet to set up the first FG that was a pivotal moment in the game...... and he didn't do ANYTHING stupid throwing it while our defense was dictating the game.
     
  35. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    i dont think i would go so far as saying he had a good game but he did a few good things and most importantly allowed our defense to win the game by not turning the ball over. baby steps, baby steps
     
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  36. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Adam, we all know offensive linemen don't carry win/loss records. We also know out of sight out of mind. The contributing factors of an incomplete pass are too often dismissed. The game was never on Henne's shoulders. He threw the ball 18 times. one score was all Sparano tried to get out of him. The rest of the game was basically receivers running around with DB's in their pockets. I'm just really disappointed by Anthony Fasano. I just don't know why we thought he was an answer at TE.
     
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  37. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I mean "good" by what the standards dictated. lol. I seriously doubt anyone could've had a "good" game with all things considered, so I had to lower standards to judge him to be fair. There was no room to really throw the ball, so I'll take 2 capitalized turnover opportunities for 10 pts & 0 INTs while playing it safe the rest of the game. Conversely, if this were a different game, there's no way in heck I call this "performance" good.
     
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  38. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize we have the measuring stick to one of the greatest quarterbacks to play the game. Ridiculous.
     
  39. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'm sorry, but I don't understand how you can say that. NE has built up that offense COMPLETELY AROUND Brady's style of game. It fits him like a glove. This offense was (and still is) built around Pennington.

    "Much Worse"? Do you even know who our #3 & 4 WRs were this game or who our #2 TE is? How about our pass catching backs? NE has a talented 3rd round WR who doesn't even see any playing time b/c of who's in front of him. We have 2 undrafted rookies who are forced into action b/c we have ZERO depth. NE has a #3 TE lighting up the NFL. Heard of Hernandez yet? We have...... we have...... we have...... crap, we don't even have a #2, and our #1 TE wouldn't start for half the teams in the league.

    There is a night and day difference between the guys who compliment Brady compared to the guys who compliment Henne. NE's skill players force defenses to defend EVERY BLADE OF GRASS. Our skill players don't come close to that!!!! At the end of the day, THAT is what it's ALL ABOUT.
     
  40. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    LOL. Doesn't know how to finish a season? He's had ONE season. Give me a break.
     
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