How are we ever going to compete with new england?

Or use other means to find a replacement for Ronnie B or Ricky or even Hilliard or Cobbs, the running back corps is in for a revamp one way or another but the Oline is a mess as well.

The odds of doing that through the draft only are long enough to make Ireland work overtime to land guys from other places who come cheaply.

 

Wait for Tom Brady to retire or get a QB at least at a Chad Pennington (2008 version) level and we'll have a chance.

 

Much respect for your dedication

 

The only way that a QB at Pennington's level will win games is if we again play the worst defenses in the league all year and everyone magically becomes afraid of the Wildcat again. Then to win a Super Bowl we need to play the exact same terrible teams in the playoff. You see where this is probably impossible right?

 

It's all just speculating at this point, but I think Miami has more offensive weapons now (Marshall, Hartline, a progressed Bess and Fasano) than we did in 08. In that playoff game our WRs were Ted Ginn, a Rookie Bess, and Brandon London. Nobody would beat the Ravens defense with that. Not with all the pressure they were bringing up the middle.

 

Oh, and I think our defense is better now too.

 

I hate to say it, but as long as BB is their coach almost any QB will look like Tom Brady on that team.

 

Who was BB? LMFAO! Please, do a little research on Bill Bellichick before you try and say that Brady somehow made him a great coach.

Go and look at how Joe Montana and that fabled 49er's offense did against BB coached defenses.

Actually, if you average all of Brady's seasons before Cassell played and compare them to the season Cassell had, they pretty much mirror each other. Meaning that Cassell's season in New England was comparable to Brady's average season. Cassell hadn't started a game since high school and he came into that offense and won 11 games.If not for an extremely weird season they would have made the playoffs.

"EDIT": Brady is not the best QB in the league.

 

Well, I am not a large fan of BB, however what sank him in Cleveland was his attempt at changing the culture of the organization, something that badly needed to be done, and something Mike Holmgren did accomplish when he was hired.

In Cleveland, fmr players like Jim Brown had input into player decisions, BB wanted them out of the loop, he lost and after making the playoffs went 4-12 and was g-o-n-e.

BB's one major flaw is, he will not pay players, not even proven veterans and the players know it.

 

well that's the point. They hit the lottery. We haven't



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Testy? I was laughing, not mad.

Anyhow, and as Padre just noted, BB would have succeeded in Cleveland had he been given control. Can you name another coach in your lifetime that turned around the Browns organization? I'll repeat myself, on this Patriots team nearly any QB would look like Brady. My proof? Cassell...

According to 13 out of 15 living Hall of Fame quarterbacks, Brady is not the best in the league. I think I'll take their opinion over yours.

 

“The greatest thing Tom has going for him is Bill Belichick — he’s able to take off a lot of the burden that quarterbacks feel in other places.”

---Troy Aikman

 

That is true in the sense until someone is the "next" Tom Brady it is impossible to say one way or another.

Now if people really want to stay up at night, think about this:

The patriots could trade their second draft (they have extra #1, #2, #3, and #4 picks) to the Panthers for Andrew Luck and STILL have enough picks left to have a normal draft, or trade some of their actual normal draft picks for..more picks in 2012..

Or they could offer 2 #1's and 2 #3's this year for the #1 overall..ie..Andrew Luck and still have 2 #2's and 2 #4's in Draft 2011.

To me that is the largest threat from the Pats mtn of draft picks, they can move into the Top 10 with ease but Belicheck is not known for doing so..but still..if they like Andrew Luck they easily have the firepower to move up and snag him even using the old Jimmy Johnson Draft Value chart.

I hope people understand what that means..and why Ireland HAS to scout the CFL, UFL the Italian, German and Swiss Leagues of American Football..the Pats are like the Death Star moving towards Draft 2011 and 2012..

 

Now who's getting testy? I'm smarter than you and know how to use google. In 2 seconds I pull up a quote that proves my point and you claim it's because I have no life. You're an idiot who does nothing but spew an opinion backed by nothing other than some media talking points and your ignorance. HAHAAAAHA!!

You're talking about "experts" and I've given you the greatest experts there are when talking about NFL quarterbacks. Hall of Fame QB's. There are 20 still living. All were asked who they would choose, Brady or Manning, if they were to start a franchise. Four refused to answer, 1 said he'd take Brady in the 1st half and Manning in the second, 2 said they'd take Brady and 13 said they'd take Manning.

You've once again been debunked. I own you.

Just for fun:

“He takes the talent around him and raises their level,” Moon said. “What he demands of himself, he demands of others. It’s scary what he would be like if HE had a Randy Moss on his team.”

---Warren Moon (HoF QB)

“Peyton has more leeway as to what he can call,” Len Dawson said. “He is as prepared, if not better prepared, than any quarterback in the league. And over the years, the Patriots’ defenses have been better than (those of) the Colts.”


Bob Griese agreed. “If you really push me over the cliff, I’d have to pick Peyton. He seems to be in such control at the line of scrimmage. Then you take away all his good players or they get hurt, change his head coach (Tony Dungy to Jim Caldwell), Marvin Harrison retires, bring in all the rookies and young players, and he makes stars of them,” he said.


“I love them both, but if you put a gun to my head and said which one do you choose, I'd say Peyton. Peyton has not had the players around him that Brady has had, but Peyton is a coach on and off the field.


And speaking to the importance of Belichick to Brady’s success, one Hall of Famer pointed out that last season, when Brady went down, Belichick had Matt Cassel, who hadn’t started at QB since high school, and he went 11-5.

 

Tom Brady did the same thing.

 

Who has Tom Brady made a star?

 

Deion Branch, Troy Brown, David Patten.

 

Really? Wow...you call those guys "stars"? I don't think I've ever heard anyone say those guys were stars. lol...

 

I also think the ones who have stated that he is a system QB should not admit to that anymore..

 

Staff edit. Don't insult other members

 

The fact that the players change and brady continues to have the best winning percentage should tell you something, During Mannings career he has been littered with first round talent..Brady makes mid round draft picks superbowl mvp's...

This debate of brady is funny...The man is the best at his position because of how incredibly accurate he is..and the fact that he owns the pocket, ive literally seen him go thru his progressions, relax, survey again, and deliver..unbelievable....In terms of his leadership, one of the best ever at the position...The man is brilliant on many levels as it pertains to his sport.

 

That's just not true...

Brady is smart. He has a winner's attitude and demeanor. He works hard too. All are great QB traits.

However, the system and teams that Brady has played on have been the biggest crutch for him. You don't have to take my word for it, ask 13 out of 15 HoF QB's that say the same things.

 

Sir, ex QB's opinions on personnel should be taken with a grain of salt...What confuses me about your position on this is that your insinuating that Brady has had special skillset players around him since his inception into the league...I dont believe that to be true relative to Manning....I would say corey dillon was his best back...

I evaluate him from the pocket...he's the best imo..

 

Are there still people trying to diminish the accomplishments of Brady? I hate him too and I hope Mo Lewis DIAFF, but the guy puts up the best numbers year after year. Outside of Randy Moss his WR/RB/TE corps has consisted of the B-shift from Burger King. System QB my ***

 

Well, that is a possibility, however I suspect that BB is not happy with his current Dline as guys like Ron Brace did not cut it (#39 overall in 09 was it?) and they are mostly using late rd picks on the Dline now when his D was rolling good he had #1 picks across the board at DE/NT/DE.

Good for him, but that also means the Dolphins should keep an eye on Ron Brace..as they only have so much roster room.

To paraphrase Rexxy "We are not here to kiss his ring (but we should be there to pick their pockets)"

 

Problem is, look at those draft choices, someone has to leave to make room for them and Warren was said to have been wearing down before he tore his hip up, but a 3-4 team only carries what..5 dlinemen and 1 backup NT?

Check out their depth chart:

http://www.patriots.com/depthchart.cfm

 

They played more of a 40 front this year.

 

Ahh, but as BB has said himself:

"They won't let you keep all of them"

Just glancing at the depth chart there are some areas that can use upgrading but still, as more come in, more have to leave.

We've watched 3 high picks released, there will be more of the same if/when TC kicks off.

 

Brace was having troubles digesting the playbook so imho he will be leaving NE, the only question is whether or not he is waived, or traded for..more draft picks.

That is one of BB's hidden keys to the Draft Pick Mtn, he manages to find suckers around the NFL front offices who will pay him value for that which he has devalued..inow Brace could end up anywhere from walking the streets or with the Texans for a 4th rd pick.

The Wr corps is interesting:

Welker
Tate
Edelman
Price

Etc, if he wishes to add another Wr via the draft, who is leaving? That is the other side of the coin of having all of those picks, a player like Edelman can end up in Detroit and become a star but his trade value is quite low.

 

Why, because they disagree with you? The facts are, a QB that hadn't started a game since high school came in and won 11 games on this team. The facts are, 13 out of 15 HoF QB's picked Manning over Brady. The facts are, below average and average QB's have won Super Bowls on great teams. The facts are, the Patriots Super Bowl winning teams were great.

When Aikman and Bradshaw were winning Super Bowls the media called them the greatest QB's to ever play. Some people bought into those things then also.

A few years after they both retired you'd be hard pressed to find anyone saying those things about those two.

The same will happen with Brady. He will retire. The hoopla will settle down (as it has the last few years when the Pats TEAMS weren't dominate). That doesn't happen to the true greats.

 

You are....