Never said I was smitten with Henne. He is what he is, a middle of the pack QB with a middle of the pack team around him and a subpar offensive staff teaching him, IMO. Some (most?) may disagree, I'm no QB guru by any stretch, but to say definitively (after 25 games) that Henne is or is not EVER going to be a good QB implies a level of knowledge and insight far beyond what 99.9% of the population have. So if 23rd or any one else comes in here proclaiming the guy's career DOA after 25 starts w/o any semblance of a logical or factual leg to stand on, I'm going to call their *** out. That's just me. If your'e offended, my bad. But the tone of the OP was not only condescending and naive, it was borderline ignorant. And me, already in a bad mood b/c of the loss, went on a mini rant in response. So sue me .
Peyton Manning was given the keys to the team. He was given Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Brandon Stokely, Joe Addai, Don Brown, Al Gonzalez, Dallas Clark etc. 1st round pick after 1st round pick spent on skill guys. We're talking HOF talent. PM was also given the freedom to go through his growing pains without the pressure of having to "win now" or having a back up QB breathing down his neck. He still threw 45 INTs in his first two seasons. What a bum. Colts should've gotten rid of him and gone after Tim Couch. Seriously though. Henne hasn't looked great, we all agree on that. But he hasn't looked like Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith or Heath Shuler either. He's played well at times, he's played poorly, and he's had quite a few instances of bad luck. He's in an offensive system that doesn't fit his skill set at all, which IMO, is the biggest problem. Henning is trying to make the guy into a Penne clone, and it's NEVER going to work. Henne isn't a Chad Pennington. He's not going to throw super accurate passes underneath coverages all game long. He's a guy who can attack outside the numbers and down the field. That's his game. It doesn't take more than 25 games to see that much. IMO until we have a coordinator who's willing to play to the strengths of the QB, we won't know what we have one way or the other.
This staff has taken an expansion team, made them competitive immediately and snuck in an AFC East title along the way. It was a 4 year deal and next year is year 4. I hope the reports of Sparano’s demise are premature. It took Payton 4 years and he has Drew Brees for goodness sake. Oddly or not, the Phins and Saints will have very similar records for the first 3 years of their new regimes. This isn’t the NBA or NY Yankees nor is it rocket science. The teams that win championships are the ones that have stability at the top and adapt their systems to fit the personnel. Not the ones who make wholesale changes after a season when the reality was – you were a .500 team to start with. As far as Henne is concerned, I think he’s in way over his skis this year. A lot of boneheaded plays for sure, but a lot of drops as well. When he’s on, he’s fun to watch. I’d like to see him back. Hopefully, Sparano’s luck continues and another coordinator falls out of the sky, they go all offense in the draft and should be ready to roll.
Peyton Manning led his team to a 13-3 record and the #1 seed in his second year after being 3-13 the previous two years. The man was great from day one. I don't know why this is so hard to accept. And yeah, Henne hasn't been as bad as Jamarcus Russell. So what? If that's all you expect or are looking for from a QB, then we just have a different view. Being better than Jamarcus Russell doesn't mean you're good (and it's not a tough bar to clear)
LMAO do you see what you did there? 13-3 & 3-13 = 16-16 (.500). Chad Henne's record as a starter? 12-11 = 1 game over .500. Henne is 13-11 if you count the Tennessee game, but Penne was in for 2 plays so I didn't count it. Not comparing Manning and Henne, one is a #1 pick and sure HOFer while the other is a late 2nd rounder still trying to learn the game. But its ironic that you bring up Manning's greatness and buttress it with a stat where Henne outperforms him. Amazing. I'm not comparing Henne to Russell either, nor am I setting Russell's performance as any type of bar. What I am saying is that unlike Russell, Henne has shown the talent, potential, and work ethic necessary for me to think he warrants a further investment of time and resources. I think that if we upgrade the guys around him, Henne's performance will improve considerably. If it doesn't, can him, but give him a fair shot before you run the guy out of town.
I believe Sean Payton had Drew Brees, Marques Colston, Reggie Bush, Lance Moore, Devery Henderson & Robert Meacham his first year. A mix of size, speed, quickness and playmaking ability you won't find anywhere else in the league. Philly perhaps, but no one else is even close. I attribute the 2008 AFCE title to luck and an easy schedule more than great coaching, but I'd still say Sparano's 08 season was more impressive than what Payton did in 06. And of course you left out that Payton followed up his AFCCG appearance by missing the playoffs in 07 & 08. C'mon man.
You've got to be kidding me bro. Please let me know when Henne leads a team to a 13-3 record and the #1 seed. Peyton took over the worst team in the elague and turned them into one of the best in his second year. Henne took over a pretty good team and has done absolutely nothing. And yes, Henne has not been a huge bust. But he also has not shown anything which warrants not looking for or getting an upgrade if one become available. I'm not willing to simply hand him the keys next year and hope he gets better. We're not a 3 win team. We're a good team that would be playoff good with competent quarterbacking
What part of Peyton Manning was the NUMBER 1 PICK IN THE DRAFT do you not understand? Chad Henne was the 57th pick in the draft. Obviously Henne wasn't considered a top flight QB prospect that could step in and perform at a high level right away. And yet you're drawing comparisons as if Henne is supposed to meet the same standard. its silly. BTW, Manning has thrown 4 pick 6s in the last two weeks, and 11 INTs in the last three games, with an 0-3 record. Just saying. Aaron Rodgers is IMO the top young QB in the league. He never played a snap until his 4th year in the league. He has play makers all over the field. Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson & Finley, all of whom would start for us. Rodgers was placed in a situation where it was relatively easy for him to succeed. And he has. Henne, was thrust into the lineup unexpectedly, in a 0-3 hole, and battled his way to a 7-3 mark before things started going downhill. He doesn't have any play makers outside of Brandon Marshall. He didn't have several years to hone his skills and learn the pro game. Hell, Henne is taking heat for a game he finished with Bess, Wallace, Moore & Fasano as his receiving targets. He has NOT been put in a situation where it's easy for him to succeed. If anything he's been set up to fail from day 1. Mark Sanchez, the #5 pick, just played equally poorly with Holmes, Edwards, Keller, Tomlinson and Cotchery as his top targets. That's what happens with young QB's, they struggle. If you haven't figured that out, then maybe you need to up your football IQ. We're not a good team. With the exception of Cleveland, we're not better than any of the teams that we've lost to. Actually, without Marshall and Hartline, we're not even better than Cleveland. Offensively we are big and slow, with no play makers. Probably one of the easiest units to defend in the league. Defensively we are better, but we lack play makers, our DBs couldn't catch a cold and we rely on one guy for pressure. Our ST unit is below average bordering on bad. Our offensive coordinator belongs in a Lombardi era NFL Films documentary, not a modern day coaches box. No, we're not a "GOOD" team. We're a middle of the pack team with a middle of the pack QB and a middle of the pack record. But if you want to be naive and blame it all on the Henne, knock yourself out.
My football IQ is just fine thank you. You are arguing that Henne will be better in another system based on no evidence. Perhaps this system doesn;t showcase his strengths, but it's not so restrictive that he shouldn't be able to play within it and still make plays. At the very least, Henne should be at the point where he isn;t out there killing us, but that's exactly what happened Sunday. And yes, Sanchez struggled yesterday. Henne thre 2 INT's against the Pats as well. Neither guy is a superstar.
Dude. Our "system" is a based on the power run game, which we don't have. We only have about 2 or 3 run plays, and our RBs have no playmaking ability. The run blocking is average overall, but even when it's awesome our backs still only make 7-8 yds. For a team that relies on the run, that's unacceptable. Not only is our run game lacking, our play action game is even worse. We fool no one with our half assed play fakes, we call play action in obvious passing situation, and we don't have a TE or WR with the speed to get down field anyway. Speaking of down field, we lack a deep threat. Hartline is a nice back up, but he can't be a flanker for this team. We need a guy who can consistently stretch the field. Not a guy who maybe, if the coverage is right and he runs a great route, might be able to get deep on a double move. Our problems on offense start at the top. Schematically we are weak and disjointed, our players don't fit our philosophy. We need a draft and FA period to beef up our skill positions. As for Henne, we're stuck with him. We're not trading up to get Luck, nor are we trading for another starting caliber QB. There are no FA QB's available, and after Luck there are no top flight prospects in the draft this year. We'd be taking another project that would need a few years to (maybe) become a solid QB. Not happening either. My wish list is to sign Deangelo Williams and draft another RB in the middle rounds. DW has homerun capability and is a credible threat out of the backfield also. Then go after after a WR either in the first round or in FA. There are several top flight WRs coming available, Sidney Rice, Santonio, Vincent Jackson, & more. I'd prefer a cheaper option, guys like James Jones and Brad Smith. Smith can return kicks, cover kicks and add spice to the WC. Jones is a legit #2 who can upgrade Hartline instantly. The TE class is weak and FA looks weak also but surely we can find someone better than Mastrud and Nalbone. Once we put some viable targets around Henne, then we can gauge him with a degree of certainty. Until then its pointless to try to come to any real conclusion.
FellowMember unluckyluciano: hate is a harsh & perhaps inappropriate word. the stress that is normal during these festive times is in many ways felt more deeply by most because of the pain & uncertainty of a bad economy & unresolved foreign wars. all Dolphin fans are disappointed with the 2010 season. all that can be done is try to enjoy the last three games & hope for a better 2011 season. Merry Christmas, the very best of the holidays to you, our forum & their friends & families I found verse that's worth a second look because it both frames & embraces the spirit & original direction of this forum: They drew a circle to shut me out Heretic, Rebel, thing to flout But Love and I had the whit to win We drew a circle that took them in by Steven Crane
Wow Lucky, you didn't even garner a "friend Lucky", but got "fellow member "instead. Did you pee in someone's fruit loops? Well you did get a poem quote ftw.
FellowMember unluckyluciano, in-flames & firesole: hate is a harsh & perhaps inappropriate word. the stress that is normal during these festive times is in many ways felt more deeply by most because of the pain & uncertainty of a bad economy & unresolved foreign wars. all Dolphin fans are disappointed with the 2010 season. all that can be done is try to enjoy the last three games & hope for a better 2011 season. Merry Christmas, the very best of the holidays to you, our forum & their friends & families I found a verse that's worth a second look because it both frames & embraces the spirit & original direction of this forum: They drew a circle to shut me out Heretic, Rebel, thing to flout But Love and I had the whit to win We drew a circle that took them in by Steven Crane no offense intended, I refer to those members that are friends as Friend so & so. all others are FellowMember so & so. I do this as a sign of respect, like 'yes sir' or 'no sir' or wearing a tie for your students if you teach school. nothing should be read into it, just another peculiarity in posting, a simple signature of respect
Merry Christmas to you too FellowMember the 23rd, wishing you well this holiday. I leave you with this Christmas Haiku.... Christmas Day Seven Swans depressed - Can’t go swimming Lakes are all frozen
thank you, very gracious of you. loved the Christmas Day Seven haiku liked it so much I've got a day eight for you: December 8th-The Sun The whirling white disc shown through the frozen window pane, opaque… crystalline. The translucent beauty of a white-hot sun in a winter’s sky and now I’ve entered you and a fever rages that cannot be contained. The whirling white disc shown through the frozen window pane, opaque… crystalline would love to see more of your work. maybe we could share. may miami be all over the jets like white on rice
Friend InFlames: my apologies, I just checked & we've been friends all along & I didn't realize it. won't happen again. Miami by 3
You completely ignored an important part of his threat regarding Indy spending high draft pick after high draft pick to make sure Manning has targets!!!!! Cmon now. Peyton's Manning's weapons during his career RB: Marshall Faulk- 1st round Edgerrin James- 1st round Joseph Addai- 1st round Donald Brown- 1st round TE: Ken Dilger- 2nd round Dallas Clark- 1st round WR: Marvin Harrison- 1st round Reggie Wayne- 1st round Anthony Gonzalez- 1st round Count them 8 first round skill players for Peyton!!!! EIGHT!!! That's not including using their 2nd & 3rd round picks on WR the year he was drafted. Then the year after drafting Dallas Clark, they used the #68 pick on a TE. Despite all the talent, they still used a 4th on Tamme and a 4th on Collie. How absolutely shocking it is to see that a HOF QB, one of the best to ever play the game, needed to be surrounded by 1st round pick after 1st round pick to maximize his potential. What do we do for Henne? WR: Patrick Turner-3rd round underachieving possession WR Brian Hartline-4th round possession WR Davonne Bess- undrafated Marlon Moore- undrafted Roberto Wallace- undrafted Ted Ginn- 1st round underachiever (but cut him) Greg Camarillo- undrafted (traded him) Brandon Marshall- he gets 1st round talent grade (wooohooo we went after somebody!!) TE: -Fasano: was a backup when we traded for him -Nalbone: 5th round project -Haynos: undrafted -Sperry: undrafted RB: -Parmalee: 6th rounder -Hilliard: 6th rounder -Ronnie: 1st rounder (riddled with injury) -Ricky: 1st rounder (showing age) -Sheets: undrafted -Cobbs: undrafted What a beautiful list!!! Lots of weapons for a young QB to succeed here!!
FellowMember ToddsPhins: I think Friend Schmolioot is right on the money & we have done everything possible & reasonable to facilitate the career of Henne. it is what it is: time for change
If you believe that, then you're definitely entitled to your opinion. If you wouldn't mind elaborating on why you feel that we've done everything possible, I'd honestly like to hear it.
In 3 years, we've gone after ONE premium skill player for Henne. Brandon Marshall is it. (we used 2 2nds on him) Compare this to the (8) 1st round and (2) 2nd round guys that Indy has drafted for Peyton. I'm sure they would've drafted even more, but they didn't need to.
he said: "If you believe that, then you're definitely entitled to your opinion. If you wouldn't mind elaborating on why you feel that we've done everything possible, I'd honestly like to hear it." FellowMember ToddsPhins: 1) we spent a fortune on an offensive line to protect him using our #1 overall to hold his blind side. the adjustment of the interior was justified by Sparano as "they won their positons" & the word was they were better collectively @ pass blocking. 2) brought in Pennington who schooled Henne like no one else could in the finer points of the NFL, a tremendous advantage. 3) was never thrown to the wolves but brought along slowly & carefully by the entire staff 4) had excellent receivers in Fasano, Hartline, Bess & Marshall 5) had an excellent ground game until the interior pass blockers screwed it up & much more Henne is a nice guy, but a mediocre talent. we need to go to a high draft pick in 2011 to resolve this problem.
Fasano and Hartline are far from excellent receivers. We do not have an excellent ground game either. Our RB's average 3-4 yards per carry, and rarely break big runs, rarely are threats out of the backfield receiving. Nobody, NOBODY fears our run game anymore.
23... I think the massive amount of debate on Henne just goes to show how much Phins fans have been waiting for someone , anyone to be a franchise Qb. I think there is danger in this...because patience goes out the window. Seriously...we disect and breakdown every throw this kid has made..and when he is looked at in such a way...its almost impossible to not rush to judgement one way or the either.. Myself..Im in the other camp...Ive been thinking franchise from the beginning...well, I didnt give it time. Time to see flaws such as reading zone coverages...poor play action passing technique etc... I think you really need three years to decide on a guy like Henne...because he has shown enough to offer glimpses of a franchise QB...but also enough to create some doubt as well. He needs another off season to work on things..and ironically, the timing couldnt be better...2011 doesnt offer much as far as upgrades go...2012 does appear to be stronger.
