How'd you all like that underthrown pass from Brady to his TE last night? The TE was wide open and Brady underthrew him by about 4 yards. The difference between that play and the Henne/Hartline play was the Pats TE came back for the ball and got the PI call. Also, did you see the EXACT same play from the Dolphins/Browns game from Sanchez to, I believe, Holmes last night? The WR had his man beat and Sanchez underthrew him and was picked off. Same thing Henne and Hartline did. I guess the Pats and Jests need to get new QB's, huh?
No one on this board, for the most part, would take Sanchez over Henne. And as far as Tom Brady, the issue here is that that's not common for him. That happens to every QB yes, but Henne has been deadly inaccurate for the most part on those long passes. I can come up with about 4 of them just off the top of my head that make me cringe when I think about how off target they were. That's coming from someone who is Pro Henne, and thinks that he still has a chance to be a serviceable starter with some gameplan changes/experience.
I'm not saying that Henne is or ever will be close to the QB that Brady is, but I see Brady underthrow and overthrow WR's every game. However, their WR's know how to go and get the ball, knock it down or draw a flag and rarely drop passes. Also, in all of my years of watching the NFL I have never seen a QB get as much time or have as big a pocket and clear lanes as Brady has. It's amazing what his O-line is able to do for him.
Maybe there is a double standard because Brady has three Superbowl rings? A QB like Henne is not going to get the benefit of the doubt when he hasn't won anything.
The double stardard wasn't really my point. I understand Brady getting a pass, but it doesn't make it right. If Henne played for the Pats he'd do as well or better than Cassel did and I bet they'd have pretty close to the same record they have now. If Brady played for the Dolphins there would be no way he has the stats or wins he has with the Pats. Brady is literally playing catch with his WR's most of the game. It's almost as if there is no one on the field other than him and his WR.
If you can remember all of Henne's deep misses, the he's probably not going deep very often. Which is kind of the problem. We don't have a single WR who is faster than the DBs that cover them week in & week out. So Henne basically has to be perfect or the WR has to make a play on an underthrown ball b/c our ability to air it out and let the WR run under it left with Ted Ginn. Henne threw two deadly accurate bombs to Teddy last year, both for TDs (Jets/Texans) though one was called back and a few more that were near misses. Point is, in order to have an effective down field passing game, you have to do it several times a game. You can't throw deep once per game and then complain b/c the QB didn't drop it in the bucket perfectly. That's unrealistic. Unfortunately, we don't have the players necessary to throw deep regularly with any realistic chance of success. Heck we don't even have the players to force a Cover 2 to expand enough to make room for the backs and TEs to work underneath. Bess gets his, but teams can easily bracket him and take him away whenever they want to. Same for Marshall. Our entire pass offense is lacking, scheme wise, talent wise, performance wise. People keep trying to dumb it down to just Henne isn't playing well. It's not that simple. Show me a QB who can play well with Bess, Wallace, Moore and Fasano as is top targets, AND no consistent run game, and I'll show you a Hall of Famer.
The Patriots run a modern offense that forces defenses to cover every blade of grass from the LOS to 50 yds down field, and they do it play in and play out. They run out of pass looks, pass out of run looks. They have a stable of targets who can get open quickly and get YAC. They have a QB who is HOF guy and is playing out of his mind right now. They have countless different personnel groups that all create different problems for a defense they and they have good players to man each package. There's really no comparison with our pedestrian guys, lack of scheme flexibility, lack of speed. We're one of, if not the easiest offenses to defend in the league. Even with Marshall we are easy to defense, without him, we suck. The Jets are going to...I cant even say it.
Winning forgives all. You have to win to be afforded that luxury. We haven't been winning so of course people will be pissed. But who has caused us to lose is subject to debate.
I tried to explain this to a few posters yesterday who were positive that play calling has no effect on Henne's accuracy. I even gave them a little hint as to why, but they still didn't get it.
Something I cant figure out with Henning, is I hardly see past successful pass plays re-appear. Since we did the TE throwback screen vs Packers has that been mothballed since it worked?
That and as soon as Henne has completed a few great passes and gets into a rhythm he pulls him out and throws Ronnie behind center.
yea, who wants a coach who shows emotion. This Sparano bashing for cheering for fieldgoals is one of the worst things I have ever read in Forum history.
I think it did. I try not to make repeat threads and will usually read through most of the first page before creating a new thread. I don't think I read one post that was comparing how Brady and Sanchez played vs how Henne played except for the comment I made in the AFC East forum.
One bad throw does not make a bad game. Multiple bad throws and bad decisions make a bad game. Look at the Vikings game. Tavaris Jackson's intercpetion was a horrible and stupid throw. He had an amazing game.
You realize that Henne has the Dolphins record for most consecutive completions in a row, right? You may not realize this because of the play calling, but Henne is a rhythm passer.
LOL @ this thread. and LOL @ the thought of the wild cat truely someone off rythem. we dont run it enough to throw someone out of their rythem. what if Henne completes 3 passes in a row, and the other team calls a TO!?? lol..were ****ed.
Did you watch the game last night? Brady's throw I'm referring to should have and would have been picked off if not for the play of the back-up corner and the reaction of Hernandez. In fact, Brady had a couple of balls that could have easily been picked off.
During that time was he taken out for any reason, time out called, end of half or anything else that can distrupt his rhythm? having many completions in a row does not make one a rhythm passer.
Great post, and I have no clue why many fans don't understand this, especially the underlined part. Too many fans think this is like backyard football IMO where "The receiver runs and gets open, and the QB throws it to him"........ so when plays are missed or the offense isn't clicking, they immediately throw full blame at the QB. Henne's having problems, but I expect him to b/c he's young and b/c of EXACTLY what you wrote above. This is probably the most UNFRIENDLY offense in the NFL for a young QB to develop in. Watching Thigpen in it, you'd think the guy had never played an NFL down in his life. Comparing NE's offense to ours is like calculus compared to basic math. Belichick is starting to make Sparano (and Henning) look like a High School coach. Thank goodness we at least have some brains and creativity with Nolan.
and according to my wife, I crap my pants.......... just cause I did it twice doesn't mean I do it all the time. i watch teams like the Giants and Eagles throw down field more times in 1 game than we do all year, and that has nothing to do with who we do or don't have at QB; It has to do with the personnel they have and the personnel we dont have.
LOL @ your great debating skills, awesome thought process, fantastic insight, and impeccable spelling and grammar. Anyhow, to further explain my post, to those who need further explaining, I used the WC as an example. Henning's entire play calling keeps Henne from being able to get into a groove. In fact, Henning does just enough to keep everyone out of a groove.
The quraterback has to make the throw. If the quarterback does not throw deep then it doesn't matter the play call. No matter who is on the team Manning threw deep.
Even though Henne says he likes it because he gets to discuss the next play with the coaches. If the WC hurts the groove, why doesn't any run play, end of half, 2 minute warning, any time out, injuries, and all of the other happenings that causes play stoppage?
So, I say Henne is a rhthym passer. You ask for proof. I give you some. You basically rebut with, "because you said so". Thanks for that.
You can also say that our WR and TE's are not as talented/skilled as the Pats group... I have made this statement on a number of occassions, that is that if Henne does not deliver a perfectly thrown ball to his receiving group, you can almost bet that the ball will either be intercepted or an incompleted pass... they do make the rare catches though... As far as the season has gone, BM has played like a #2 WR... Bess has played very well to be the #2 if not the slot in every team except the Pats... Harline would be # 3 at best, and the rest of the WR, would be practice squad material... Fassano is our # 1 but then again he is no Dallas Clark, Gates, Gonzalez nor the pair of rookies that are playing for the Pats... Also need to remember that our OL has only been playing with 2 good starters that being Long, and Carey, the rest are back ups and back ups to the back ups... if it was not for the OL injuries they would be either in the practice squad or out of a job... So Henne is a 2nd year starter playing with many subpar players, and an OC that for the most part has not helped him and we wonder why he is so inconsistant...
Link? I'm not saying that we should never run the WC. But when Henne is playing well and moving the ball well, as he has done many times this season, Henning ALWAYS pulls him out or calls for some other stupid play.
Our point exactly. LOL. Virtually all QBs need to develop a rhythm and then have the appropriate plays called that will keep him in it........ or get in a rhythm and then speed up the tempo while he's hot, which includes having the ability to audible and call plays at the line...... and definitely not taking him out of the game in lieu of a Wildcat. The WC can help a game, but at the same time it kills a QBs rhythm. When it comes to throwing and things like arm mechanics, you're not always going to be even keel. It's why pitchers in baseball can seem lights out one day and be all over the place another. This also reflects on GM's reference about throwing deep. It can't be done once a game and expect to be successful, especially when the throws need to be perfect most of the time b/c we don't have anyone who can outrun a defense. If Chad had a Jacoby Ford who could literally run under any long pass, and all Henne has to do is chuck it, then we'd see MANY more long completions. Have you heard Roethlisberger or Vick talk about Wallace or Jackson? I think it was Vick who was joking about overthrowing Jackson deep a few weeks ago b/c he didn't think it was possible.
