There's 10 other guys on offense besides a QB. Time to blame the FO for it's choices.

unless it's grits and eggs, I'll pass.

 

The 2nd replay shows him running for 16 yards while his eyes are fixed back to the ball. Yes, it was a laser down field, but it was still 50+ yards in the air. That's plenty of time to adjust (even slightly better than his half attempt). You're right, Haden was at full speed. That works to Hart's advantage b/c all Hart has to do is stop abruptly and let Haden run into him. He doesn't do that..... he takes 9 steps while looking back (with a few of those being nonagressive baby steps) and allows Haden to keep his inside position. That should've been a big catch or a PI call.

 

So Moore didn't drop the pass downfield? Wallace didn't run out of bounds then drop an easy TD? Does Henne have a lot of reps with these guys to be in sync with them or trust them completely? Would you completely trust 2 FA rookies when Cleveland is mixing it up a lot with Chad like he stated? How many reps does Bess see as our #1 to have great chemisty etc in such role (especially when being doubled and tripled)?

I haven't seen enough game tape to see all these "passed over deep opportunities" to comment either way on it...... but what I do trust are members like "Robert_Horry" who was at a recent game and specifically said he paid attention to the play-calling, routes, etc..... and he stated that we clearly were NOT running routes that attacked the deep parts of the field, and the times that we did were typically well covered. Not to mention, we don't possess the talent level to consistently threaten the deep part of the field. Hart is our fastest WR. He's quick and sneaky at times, but he's no Mike Wallace, Jacoby Ford, or DeSean Jackson whom you can trust will outrun everyone and make a great play on the ball. Bess is not a deep threat; Marshall has sub par long speed; Fasano isn't outrunning anyone; and Ricky, Ronnie, and Cobbs aren't blowing defenders doors off on wheel routes like Jahvid Best would.

IMO it's a little different "missing" a handful of different guys who occasionally become open down field than it is missing your "one legitimate deep threat" whom you have great down field chemisrty with. The timing etc is more difficult when dealing with throwing to multiple guys who run at different speeds etc rather than throwing to ONE guy whom trust more and have more reps (IE: 20 downfield passes spit up evenly between 4 players is more difficult to be accurate on than 20 downfield passes with 1 guy getting 15 of them). Do you not feel our vertical passing game would be more effective if Chad had 1 player as his go-to deep guy rather than trying to sneak a 4.5 WR behind coverage? A 4.5 behind coverage requires a more accurate pass and can be caught from behind while the pass is midair. When a 4.3 guy gets behind coverage, he's gone. No worries about anyone catching him. Throw it far enough and let him outrun everyone to it like we saw Jacoby Ford do.

Disclaimer: This post is not intended to make any excuses for Henne. If we get him a legit deep threat and he misses too many opportunities, then I'll have a big problem with it.

 

Dude, there's not even a thread with me on ignore.

 

I understand where you're coming from.... and I was slightly exaggerating for affect about the coaches ruining him etc. I believe it for the most part though, but it was meant to be taken with a slight grain of salt. However, we both know that there's no comparison between Henne and Beck. Henne, with an average offense came from behind to beat Brady and the Pats. Beck's not doing that. He's had games that displayed some serious potential like the Jets game this year, where the only reason we were in the game was b/c of Chad's play (then special teams ruins it for us). He played very good against a great Steeler team, well enough to give us a probable win. I'm watching Sanchez right now, and he looks further behind developmentally than Henne.

In the NFL IMO there are too many extenuating circumstances that can sway a QBs development and even future. I believe it's rare, but Henne wouldn't be the first QB who falls short of his natural potential through no fault of his own. For 1 isolated instance, I think the practice clock has highly affected him and is something that he will need to overcome in time (similarly to how a QB is pressured constantly and is forced to escape the pocket to save the play or make a throw..... once he does it enough, he becomes conditioned to escape the pocket even when the pressure isn't dictating so, as well as putting him in a bad habit of rolling out at times rather than simply stepping up in the pocket.

I watched this happen first hand to Cullen Harper at Clemson. As a Junior there were talks of him having 2nd round potential. As a Senior, he had the worst protection in college football and was constantly escaping the pocket as a last ditch effort. By the end of the year (even as protection improved), he was ditching the pocket when he didn't need to..... and I never saw him overcome it. He was never the same player he was as a Junior, and he went undrafted as a result. Just like the practice clock, this is all psychological/mental, and can be tough to overcome b/c the brain becomes conditioned to a certain response.

 

Weren't Theisman and Williams more products of Gibb's offensive approach rather than Henne's b/c Gibbs took a different approach than Henning does IIRC? Pennington was aided greatly by the WC and a schedule full of horrendous defenses so I can't give him a pass on this one considering Penny & Henning came out 0-3 in 09. I can't really answer on Delhomme but with Vinny Testicle it seemed like vintage Henning: Great first year then major drop off after that (21 TDs, 25 INTs, 55%, and a 69 QB rating in 16 games (one of the worst years of his career)

I understand his philosophy, but I think Gibbs version of it is more effective.

 

I'm all for crucifying him when it's his time. I just don't feel it's his time. Too many unknowns to the equation that need to be solved IMO before we need to worry about replacing Henne with a developmental guy who will be even further behind and set us back an extra year or 2. If our D plays well and we don't leave plays on the field, I think we can win even with Henne being inconsistent. We were without Marshall, Hart was on the sidelines for half the game, Cleveland played virtually mistake free, Henne was bad, yet we still should've won the game. If there were someone coming out worth replacing Henne with, then I might be singing a different tune right now, but since we're not getting Luck, I'd rather focus my energy, draft picks, and wallet on improving the rest of the offense that I know FOR A FACT will be easier to improve.

I'm merely trying to be practical about this rather than make an unnecessary, rash move that sets this team back. Using a 1st round pick outside of QB <this upcoming draft> will have a greater potential for improving our offense than drafting a non-NFL ready QB who will probably sit behind Chad and be lucky to challenge him for his starting job in year 1 or 2. I'd rather wait, make sure I know what we do or don't have in Henne before I grab a QB..... b/c if we go after one, he needs to be an apparent night and day upgrade over Chad from prior to the draft IMO (a potential top 3 QB).

I can't disagree with that..... provided he makes the catch. lol.

 

I'm not excusing his inconsistency by any means. I'm merely not expecting to play like a seasoned veteran when he's still young and developing.... and especially when has only 2 experienced WRs on the active roster (and calling Hartline experienced is even a stretch). I'm with holding some of my judgement until I feel I can accurately judge him (when the line is solidified, new OC who is better in tune with Chad, a #2 TE, an improved ground game & better COP back/ relief valve, and a legitimate vertical threat whom he can actually trust & develop some chemistry with.

I'll judge Chad's improvement based on the degree to which the offense is upgraded. If it's upgraded slightly, then I want to see at least slight and consistent improvement next year over this. If it's upgraded halfway, then I want to see very noticeable improvements by midseason next year to where he's on par with Sanchez & Freeman. If it's upgraded to the extreme, then I want to see a Matt Ryan-Joe Flacco type year. I think that's entirely fair.

Any rookie we draft will come in and most likely perform in the bottom 5 of the league (right there with any other rookie QB not named Luck)..... I really don't want to see that if I don't have to. lol. If some of us pulling hair out with Henne this year, then they're in for an ugly surprise if we see a rookie starting. After all, Thigpen has NFL starting experience and he's looked like an abomination in this offense (like an Arena League guy no offense to him).

 

Sanchez was ALL OVER THE FIELD vs the Pats, and he had his starting lineup at the helm. Mark played worse tonight then I've ever seen Henne play, even vs Cleveland when our #1 & #2 WRs were on the bench. Like Steve Young said: "Mark played like a 2nd year QB tonight". IMO, just b/c we want Henne to play better NOW doesn't mean we can forget that he's still a 2nd year starting QB.

 

This is one where we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree b/c our eyes are telling us 2 contradicting things. LOL.

 

By the way, I see you've finally achieved the 1 rep point status ...... Congratulations!! ........



Keep these great contributions up and you'll be at 2 before you know it.

 

Thanks SloMo!


can you quote one more?.... the one above?

 

Conch & Grits w/ fried fish sounds pretty good actually. Not so sure about the Grits and Tuna--- that sounds like you're trying to dupe me into something that'll cause some funny lookin faces.

 

I'd wait a few weeks, but I think this needs to be considered, especially at the RB position where some serious decisions need to be made.

Personally, I'd leave Henne in (and our WRs) b/c Chad needs as many reps/game experience as possible since he's most likely the opening day starter if there's a 2011.... but outside of that I think the young guys on D should be given more playtime.

 

I agree completely and think this is an excellent post. Like you say, the key is not putting the cart before the horse. IE: not calling for Henne's head when he's clearly yet to reach his potential (or display an obvious bust) and we don't yet know for sure if he's even upgradable based on who's available.

I think it'll take a legit future top 5 QB to make us think about replacing Chad at this stage..... and even that could be more of an afterthought, like discussed at breakfast while passing sausage links. If it's 2011 and we're in the same scenario, then I think they're calling a meeting about it.

I agree on Moore.... and Wallace too for that matter. Marlon made a nice play vs Oakland, but I think a lot of WRs could've made the same play given the exact same scenario. With little expectations from these guys, they're probably sitting on borrowed time right now.

 

The best I can do is meet you half way and say he could've at least pulled a PI call out of it.

 

LOL. Not sure if that's good or bad..... but I'll just go with "good".

 

Great point which I forgot entirely. I was too quick to judge him, and we really only need to let one guy go..... or at least move back to the PS.

If we get a legit #2 in, then we could probably buy a few years of time to let Wallace develop and hopefully reap some nice rewards.

 

I think Peyton Manning would like to dispute this with you.

I find it highly coincidental that Peyton Manning has been without Dallas Clark, Anthony Gonzales, and Austin Colllie during the past 5 games and has a bismal 1-4 record with 13 INTs. Anyone still care to suggest that one of the best QBs in NFL history can do it all on his own w/o being surrounded by quality talent & playmakers? Did you notice Peyton's unManning'esque stats when passing intermediate to downfield? Did he all of a sudden forget how to throw vertically? Did his arm talent dry up the past 5 games?....... or has he been unable to get into a true rhythm?..... or unable to quickly develop a rapport & trust with these less-experienced receivers whom he's had fewer reps with etc?

Not trying to sound above anyone at all, but this is what I was referring to when speaking of getting Chad a full arsenal to work with. Manning's skill players are still more talented with these 3 guys out than we are with only missing Marshall. Does anyone still feel that Manning can undeniably come in here and succeed in the Browns game with only Bess, Wallace, Moore, and Fasano at his disposal?

 

I'm right there with you on this too. I want Greg Little in the 4th....and I don't think the draft offers much this year as far real speed.