There's 10 other guys on offense besides a QB. Time to blame the FO for it's choices.

Henne throws too many interceptions.

 

Nice try. They played cover 2. The last series (you know, the last Henne interception) was straight up cover 2 zone. The coverage that your boy hasn't defeated all year.

 

I think (out of all that's been said in this thread) that may be the most astute commentary of them all.

 

All good and well researched points. I especially like the part where you compared scenario A with scenario B and came out with an intelligent and objective conclusion. Where would this forum be without you and your brand of intelligent and respectful debate?

 

I'll diverge from you here in that I want that throw to be made more than I want Hartline to stop running his correct route and go for the ball.

 

QBs role is to hit the open wr. Hartline's role is to get open and catch a ball. Anything else is extra credit. Marvin Harrison was infamous for being soft. That INT is on Henne and I don't see how any credible argument can be made otherwise. Hartline is making his run totally smoked the DB and when he realizes the ball is SEVERELY under thrown, he stops and comes back to it. Shouldn't have had to. Henne underthrowing the ball - that's like Aquaman drowning in a bath tub (credit to Chris Rock). He may have tracked the ball for 16 yards but you are trying to argue It's Hartline's job to recognize the under thrown ball the millisecond it leaves Henne's hand. That's just unreasonable.

 

Although I believe Todd is too much in Henne's corner, I'd take the words of the guy who called Henne's Tennessee game, the "worst" he had seen him all year, with a grain of salt as well.

 

I implore you to watch it again.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010120501/2010/REG13/browns@dolphins#tab:watch

he totally adjusted to the ball. Watch the fast replay. You see the ball go up and immediately come down. You see Hartline like a bat out of hell. Then you see the ball just sinking (underthrown) and hartline converging two obviously separate routes together. Unfortunately the ball was thrown to Haden's route, not Hartline.

 

Henne missed 3 deep balls all with open recievers when with a ball placed in a position where his recevier had a single step at minumum and yards at maximum to successfully hook up. Hartline in the EndZone on opening drive (short), Hartline down the sideline (INT) short, and Bess deep middle (overthrown).

Wish it was only one throw and one scenario...its was bad yesterday, very bad.

that doesnt account for the 2nd INT where he tried to force it into triple coverage when Fasano had beaten his man on the under middle route. Or the last INT while tipped was still thrown short and would not have been a 1st down to begin with.

bad day at the office for Henne

If its not the less then STELLAR deep throws, its his reads vs where he decides to throw (like the 2nd INT). I see to many better options when he seems to either not see them, or doesnt trust what he should see.

 

I wholly agree with this statement.

 

Zod, as someone who routinely goes out of his way to tell us that he knows what he's talking about, you should know better. I believe you know football, and though we've had heated disagreements which boiled down to petty name calling, I acknowledge and respect your football acumen. In this instance I feel you're being disingenuous as you absolutely know that a player running routes into zone coverage will always be risky players to throw to. Read that as everyone running a route in a Dolphin Uniform. In a Cover 2 zone, notorious for being difficult to throw in especially for this offense, the only way to beat it is to throw to the curl, underneath middle, seams, or DeSean Jackson.

Would you agree that including an audible package that allows the QB to change to one or two plays that defeat cover 2 zone would help? What our offense does is call a pass play and if the Defense is in a coverage set that works against the offense, we can kill to a run. When we're down in games, it is absolutely imperative that the right pass play is called as killing to a run is not an option and clearly fans and coaches alike hate to see crucial timeouts burned. I think you would agree with me that the ability to kill to certain other pass plays may help Henne's deficiency in Cover 2 (which is also our coaching staff's deficiency). If not, please give your opinion on what can be done to help Henne throw to 3 UDFA's and Anthony Fasano at the end of the game. Disregard the tipped pass INT as well because that was on Henne.

 

As can the argument be made that the system is hurting the development of this QB.

 

What pedestal? I have not started one thread about anyones performance from yesterday. I'm not the one deflecting attention from WHAT REALLY HAPPENED in the game yesterday. Go look in the nearest mirror. You are the one with the holier than thou posts in the past 24 hours. You are the one trying to educate us about how poor our entire roster, front office, and coaching staff have been. Geez! You have reduced yourself to attacking someones avatar! An avatar?

No, you pulled up some of the greatest names in the sport. Then you pointed to how they had nothing and then had something. Could it possibly be that the "greats" were not that good. No, no.. It couldn't possibly be that they played poorly and made the people around them look bad. That could not be the case even though if you ask each one of them (that you listed) to a man they would say that THEY had to learn the game. THEY had to go through the bumps and bruises.

I have said NOTHING about the potential for Chad Henne to become a star. What I have said is that YOU throw mud on everyone within the organization to deflect attention from the poor play of Chad Henne. THAT IS FACT. It cannot be denied.

Me, I'm looking at the year 2003. It's the year that "Marty Ball" was becoming foul language in San Diego. The record of his budding star? 2-9 as a starter. He threw for 11 touchdowns and 15 interceptions. I'm fairly certain that there was more than a few scmuck Chargers fans that cursed the day Marty Schottenheimer was hired from the very day that he was hired. Just as there are those here that are cursing the day that this regime brought Dan Henning back out of retirement. The fact is that it is YOUR GUY that is inconsistent. It is YOUR GUY that can't put the team on his back. It is YOUR GUY that has not won a game in the fourth quarter in 2010. But you want to burn the house around him just to save him.

Pedestal? People in glass houses should not throw stones.

 

Fantastic post!

Zone coverage is the hardest thing for a new QB to learn. If Henne were not improving I would be on the side of people who want to get rid of him. However, he has improved from last year. And if you throw in the fact that most QB's have that sophomore slump (without having a ******ed OC, no run game etc etc) then I'm inclined to give the guy more time. Look at that 6 for 6, 80yd TD drive he led them on. That throw to Fasano was a thing of beauty.

 

See the previous post. I've become a pariah with some for my defense of the organization. This guy is NOT Tom Brady. This guy is NOT Ben Rothlisberger. He is not those two for reasons of physical stature. He is not those two because he did not step into a team that just needed a quarterback.

The closest thing to a quality quarterback that this guy can be is Drew Brees. And I have watched, read, and listened to the exact same things said about this organization as was said about the Chargers in Schottenheimer's first three years. The fans gave him no time and there were Drew Brees haters throughout his ENTIRE San Diego career. The fact of the matter is that Drew Brees was NOT a good quarterback. He developed into a good quarterback through "Marty Ball". They ran and kept the team competitive the best they could while Brees learned on the job.

Chad Henne is no better than Drew Brees. The thing that drives me nuts is that some have chosen to disregard that fact in leau of throwing everyone around him under the bus. I'll wait on this kid. But I'll be damned if I'll sit around as someone attempts to recreate history after placing skidmarks on every other persons back.

 

he can make throws TP because he has a wonderful arm, however, I ask you in all seriousness, do you want to move forward in offensive philosophy with a player that has 0 escapability talent, limited skill improvisationally both mentally, and physically, bottom line, do you want to move forward offensively with a player that can only execute from a perfect pocket?

It was an excellent post and thread because it makes me think even harder about my own analysis and breakdown...but my conclusions are that I do want a QB that can do the things that I mention, which are things that Henne cannot, its important for my own personal vision for the right offense.

 

Henne looked bad yesterday. But Henne has also looked good. Honestly, I expected to hear that there was some sort miscommunication on that first INT, it was so bad. Like he threw a back shoulder stop route while Hartline ran a stop and go. It was strange, Henne overthrows when he misses long. Regardless, Henne has the rest of the season to show improvement and (hopefully) some consistency. This debate is far from over.

 

What I've seen with Henne is that he does the same things a lot. What is just infuriating is that we know that, he knows that, and FO knows it, but they won't meet him halfway. Certain QB's you don't have to baby for them to succeed (Ryan, Bradford). Certain ones, you do (Flacco, Sanchez). If we're not going to meet him at his needs, let him go. But a certain part of his development has to land on the people tasked with putting him in the right position to succeed.

One thing I see with some of the good Young QB's is some combination of a great TE and a great WR, and a great RB. Sanchez had Keller and Jones. Ryan had Gonzalez, White, and Turner. Flacco had Ray Rice, McGahee, McClain, Mason and Todd Heap. Freeman has Kellen Winslow, Antonio Bryant last year, Mike Williams this year, and a surging Blount. They also had pretty solid Defenses. I just think we got in too late. We got Marshall in Henne's year 2, our great TE combo of 2008 wasn't there in 2009, and 2009 saw the injury to Ronnie. Although I place a lot of the blame on Henne, I still think we missed on getting his development together. I look at him sort of like Alex Smith. He had Gore, got benched, came back and had Gore and Davis, then just got Crabtree. I think it was just too late for him to make magic by that time.

I still think there's an ability for the guy to get good but we need to go in full help mode with him. Draft great offensive pieces for him, stay away from Cam Newton, and let him show his medal. If he doesn't make the leap, we can at least be 9-7 or 10-6 and trade some draft picks away to get that QB in 2012.

 

This is such a reach bro.....

 

I feel bad for Henne. I watched his presser and he looked like he was going to cry. Should he start? I don't know, I think he is doing the best that he can with his many tools, but it just isn't working out. It's not that he can't throw the ball or that he can't lead the offense, that's not the problem. If it were; the answer would be simple - bench him, but it's not that simple.

You can't have a QB be that inconsistent with his accuracy and make bad decisions and win ball games. If he would take the sack instead of throwing the pick we would have won this game and a few others. His pass and completion ratio is pretty good, but it's the turnovers that will kill you every time.

I don't know if they should do this or not but if it were me, I would bench Henne and start Thiggy the rest of the season and fully evaluate him to help with the many decisions during the off season. I would also probably play our depth and let the starters sit most of the rest of the games. The season is lost, and there is no scene in getting anyone hurt.

We may as well treat this like pre-season and try some new formations, new talent and new plays. Anything that would help us during the off season to get a handle on this I would do. I would still do some unbalanced lines and things to win but for the most part I would start the off season this week.

The QB draft this year is very strong and worth looking at. I want to see Henne on our team next year, just not starting. Not for another year or so.

 

I have a tough time agreeing with that though. We're not seeing those guys make the poor decisions that Henne is making. I don't know whats causing those poor decisions, I'd love to find out, for example, why isn't he being coached out of them? He's continuing to make them though, we aren't seeing those other guys do that. Maybe still once in a while they do, but its not several times a week in some cases. I think at this point, we'd want to see Henne reducing those mistakes.

I agree, he's shown some great flashes of brilliance. That pass to Fasano for the TD was a beauty yesterday. As was the one to Cobbs last week, and several others this season. Thats what we need more consistently. If this staff, the way it sits goes out to find another QB, its going to be a Pennington type player. It probably will work for us as we probably woudlnt be trying to fit a square peg, into a round hole.

I would love to see us get a deep threat, no doubt about that. Id like to see an explosive, speedy back in addition to Ronnie for next year, but... who knows. I dont want to look that far ahead, I want to see the issues we're having right now, with the players we have right now fixed first, if possible.

 

He is actually worse than last year. He is worse because he has learned more. How can that be? He is not throwing deep. Throwing deep into cover 2 made him unpredictable. That is why Brett Favre was so hard to defense. This year is the reverse. Chad Henne took the underneath routes versus EVERY cover 2 he faced. I have said it since the beginning of the year! He has to take shots when they are there. If not, the defense will squat on the underneath. THAT is why you see no run after the catch. It's simple math.

They have five guys that flex 5-12 yards from the line of scrimmage. The two outside guys are always looking back at the QB. They will be the players that break off to cover the underneath on the outside. The two deep have the two deep. Now if you go to the Devone Bess batted ball at the end of the game, you will notice something on the replay. There is a safety behind Devone Bess. There is only one other safety! There were two receivers on the other side of the field working against that safety. Devone Bess had nowhere to go even if he made the catch.

Now watch that replay with me:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010120501/2010/REG13/

Count the men on the defense presnap. Two safeties are not in the picture. The defender that follows the motion and subsequently bales tells me that this is man under. So it's a man under, two deep. Now go to the replay. You can see number 43 approaching Bess from the endzone angle. Why did eHenn go to Bess? On the other side a decision had to be made by the other safety. He either drived on the low route or ran with the high route. Either that or he split the two receivers running deep.

For all the critism of conservative offense, you can see that this guy CHOOSES the safe route. We saw yesterday that he is hesitant to throw it deep to a guy running WIDE OPEN. These are decisions. They are decisions made by the quarterback. For all the conservatism talk there has been this year, this guy has CHOSEN the majority of it. It's what has led to the batted balls. It's what has led to the interceptions on the underneath. It's what has led to the barrage of field goals.

Versus Cover 2 there ARE places to throw the ball. It's the deep middle and the deep sideline. We have run those routes all year. He has chosen not to throw it. It's made him a smarter quarterback but it has made this a dumb offense.

 

Someone link this presser for me. It's the second time that I have seen it referenced and I cannot find it.

 

.......and just for the sake of reference. If anyone wants to see what Chad Henne MAY be or what he MAY become all that you need is one reference.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BreeDr00.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HennCh01.htm

Contrary to the time of Elway, Montana, or Marino alot of us actually know what was being said about Drew Brees thanks to the small world of the internet.

 

That is only true if his name is Chad Henne. THAT's the problem with all of your excuses.

 

he sounds confused as to what is the right thing to say in that situation after yesterdays events..he pulled out the whole life or death cliche, which tells me someone has told him that a few times..

whats funny is Sparano in his presser all but claims that those int's are killers....lol..

 

The truth is it's difficult for us to know anything. I sat here the other day and watched a smidgeon of that Michael Vick interview with his former coach. What did he say?

"Stacks of those DVDs you gave me in my car that I never watched."

Wow! You were paid millions and you decided the fate of the man's future. Even if you did do it, don't tell him you did it. It's honest but it's like insult to injury.

I've given some thought to varying degrees of perspective. One of the common things I've noticed about this forum is that we look at this game through 30-40 year old eyes. We've been watching it for years. I think we all could give a damn fine post game interview. These kids are learning TO DO what we've been watching. It's a totally different perspective of the game.

Now throw in the fact that you have a pocket full of cash, people pulling you every which way but loose, and you are 24. At that age, I think I'd be knocking boots with someone that looked like Gisele on a yacht about 50 foot in length. Football? WTF is that? I'll think about that in August.

 

I am rooting or Henne, so lets get that straight. But I hope you can find common ground and agree, he has NOT to date, scanned the field clearly and found the BEST guy to though it to. He has failed to trust what he sees - especially on deep routes - and like the 2nd INT yesterday, thrown into TRIPLE coverage to Bess vs attack the softer middle when Fasano had beat his man.

Henne is making decisions that are contributing to his lack of success. I can accept that. I expect him to improve. But for me, right now, as a FAN the growing pains suck.

 

I couldn't agree more. Our offense is completely devoid of playmakers. Completely devoid of any speed. Brandon Marshall is our only playmaker, of course our senile, idiot of an OC doesn't use him as one however.