Everybody is missing the point. Ireland was worried about Dez Bryant's character issues, yet he gave two second rounders to Marshall. Marshall has now proven to be a headcase which he has a history of doing while at the same time being outplayed by a rookie who gets half the snaps. The egg is on Irelands face.
the egg is on every owner/GM face that passed on Dez not just Irelands. Yes the kids a beast wish he was here but he isnt. So time to move on and work with what we have currently. And i wouldnt call BM a headcase IMO atleast. Yes he's done a couple of dumb things during the game but far from a headcase like TO or OchoCinco blowing up on Palmer. Im not giving up on BM yet he's only been here for 12 games.
Are you really coming on here sharing a belief that Dez Bryant wasn't drafted because of his mom? LMAO..... it takes all kinds. He wasn't drafted because other positions were seen as much more important to address. This is one of those threads for the ages. Started off silly as hell and continues veering off into more absurdity.
Nah I just enjoy saying it. I just think Ireland is not a good talent evaluator. I would of been just as happy with Earl Thomas. We had a top pick and had a chance to get a true game changer. Im sure Odrick and Misi are servicable role players but that is not what this team needs. Also for someone who is so concerned with a players past Ireland decided to ignore Marshalls. Marshall is completely naive as to what the real world's like. He acted like a complete child in Denver and got rewarded for it. In his mind all he has to do to get his way is act like a jackass.
Rick Speilman is a genius for drafting Adrian Petersen and Harvin. Talk about acorns dropping at his feet. We all know he is not a genius but what he did learn is that you have to draft explosive players to make a difference. The good ones go in the first round usually.
Dude, the profession of Dez Bryant's mom wasn't the deciding factor in us taking someone else. Perhaps his answer to that question or more precisely how he reacted to that question was a factor, but that's not why Dez Bryant isn't here. He is with Dallas because we didn't need a WR having just traded for Marshall...that's why Dez isn't here.
the character concerns aren't going to show up his rookie year when he feels he has to prove himself after dropping like a rock in the draft. If they show up it will be year three or later, once he has established himself. Then we'll see what type of ego he has. No one ever doubted the guy's talent. One new negative on Bryant that bears watching however is the minor injuries he suffered this year. We'll have to see if this is a rare occurance or if this will be a yearly problem. Also, he only has three games where he caught more than 5 passes
Realistically, I'd say the bar is probably hitting around 35% of your picks. 50% on higher round picks.
You seem way more interested in Marshall's numbers ( catches and yards) was my point here. Some of us care more about TD's. Take that back to the Club Level. I'm sure they will agree.
First - it's too early to judge. Second - hindsight is always 20/20 and one can always pick areas where they were right and the FO wrong. On every team. Third, the real culprit here is not that we don't have Dez Bryant. Given the OC, the OL, the RB situation, and the injuries on the OL, the DL, and at QB, there are just fundamental flaws in this team. To say that Dez would do here what he is doing in Dallas is simply not realistic. Look at Marshall - more productive at Denver (in terms of TD's) even while being a bigger head case. Sure he's messed up here a couple of times but the big issue is not about the WR position. It's coaching. We have the ability to take very good players and make them mediocre. Finally, Dez Bryant should thank Ireland and the rest of the league for passing on him down to Dallas. As with so many other players, that was a warning to him to get his act together on and off the field. How long with that last? Who knows. But, it doesn't mean he would be the same player had he been a top 10-12 pick and walked in like a prima donna without being knocked down a notch.
i was just pointing out he's still producing 2/3 of the major WR stats while being doubled/tripled teamed, taking away the deep threat. Yes i agree the TDs are low but are those his fault or the bad offensive play calling? I dont remember every RZ play but i dont recall seeing every play called for BM and him dropping them.
In" your opinion" it wasn't a need. It clearly was a need and many of us here realized it. Did Dallas NEED Dez? No they, didn't but that didn't stop them from taking a guy who will become one of the top WRs in the game which is tremendously more valuable than a DE or LB whose likes can be found in virtually every draft w/o having to use a 1st round pick on such. What happens when Marshall goes down? Riddle me this. Now we're left with Hartline as a #1 who isn't good enough to be a 2...... and 2 FA rookies as our #2 & 3. "Not needed"? A 1st round DE was more of a luxury pick for us than Dez would've been. When you have a guy like Brandon, you should prioritize acquiring a quality WR opposite him who can take FULL advantage of the single coverage he'll be seeing...... or who will draw some of the coverage so that Marshall isn't blanketed with 2-3 defenders at times. This isn't flag football where Brandon is always in 1 on 1 coverage. Gheeeesh. For your last comment---- a team doesn't go anywhere by continually drafting for need. All that does is make you average while other teams like the BUCS are grabbing Best PLayer Available every round (and now look at them). If you want to be elite, you need some elite talent. Dez is an elite talent that only comes along every 3 or 4 years. If you get an opportunity to nab an elite talent, then you do so! A 1st rounder for Dez is a bargain. He'd probably net 2 1st rounders in a couple of years.
The whole idea of going into the draft prioritzing reclaiming a second round pick, rather than simply using wat you have and taking an impact player was an error by the front office, one driven I suspect by Bill Parcells. We moved down so far in the 1st round and got a 2nd round pick and Dobbins, who is nothing. I would rather have had Dez/Earl Thomas than Odrick and Misi. Our problem isn't not having enough solid players, our problem is not having enough elite players.
Marshall is a great WR, he is better then Dez at this point. The problem with him not getting into the endzone lay elsewhere. Having said that... Not sure I care for the crap marshall has pulled over the last couple of weeks either.
The problem with that quote IMO is that you don't know if either Misi or Odrick are going to be elite players. Can't judge players on ten games or less... BTW, Odrick showed flashes of being just that.. dominate... in his short stint before he got hurt. I am not saying that he is going to be but he could be... have to wait to see on that one.
I think it's a valid question. You go into a draft and you'd better come out with good players. We don't know if Jared Odrick is a good player yet. We do know that Dez Bryant is a very, very good player. When there's too much focus on value, as if draft picks are currency, I think you do make mistakes. There's a very big and important difference between currency and draft picks. Currency is relatively constant. At one given moment, every dollar bill is worth relatively the same amount to every person that possesses one, with relatively little in the way of significant differences in value regardless of what they spend it on. Draft picks aren't like that. When you draft, you're picking a human being. The process should therefore to me be more human-oriented rather tha value-oriented. I think therefore schmolioot brings up a valid point when he talks about heading into the draft with the idea that you're going to somehow re-acquire that 2nd round pick you lost with Brandon Marshall. That's treating a human-oriented process like a value-oriented process, I personally believe it leads to errors. I know there is another school of thought out there that says that you have to make sure you don't focus on a player so hard, rather that the value, that you overpay, because that is how other draft mistakes are made. I am not a subscriber to that school of thought. I think rather, just don't be wrong about your player. Go with players you have conviction on, players that you have a clear vision for, and if you're GOOD at what you're doing...you'll do fine in the long run. Back to Dez Bryant, I had a clear vision for how good this young man would be, and I had a lot of conviction in him. For some reason, everyone in the universe decided that this was going to be this year's whipping boy, not because he deserved it but rather because the public needed someone to fill that role. This industry is entertainment, after all. I had a lot of strong arguments with people about this guy. My urgency to draft him waned a little bit when we traded for Brandon Marshall, but on the basis of making sure you get a DAMN GOOD player with your draft selection, he was still at the top of my list.
I am more and more convinced that during our undefeated season of 17-0 our current forum and fans would have been pissed and livid that Garo Yepremian failed to kick the FG which would have made the score 17-0, and instead had it blocked, tossed it in the air and watched as Skins returned it to make the final score 14-7 instead. threads upon threads would have been created back then about how significant a 17-0 score would have been, etc, and what a horrible organization and team we have to not do that. shheeeessshhhh what a "fan" base we have here.
I understand the sentiment but I don't see how it applies here. We're 5-5 and on the outside looking in for the playoff hunt, in the third year of this regime's reign. Dez Bryant probably would have helped us be...not 5-5 and on the outside looking in for the playoff hunt. Hence the second-guessing. There's nothing wrong with accountability.
I don't know that Odrick flashed "dominance" but frankly he played so little I don't even remember. Maybe he will turn out great. My point wasn't to bash Odrick and Misi, but to show that I felt the process that led to their selections was flawed. Parcells/Ireland said it before the draft. "We need to get that 2nd round pick back." Their zeal to do so led them to take a below market value trade and pass up several highly rated guys for two lower rated guys plus a backup linebacker. I would rather have one dominant player than 3 average guys, when our biggest problem is that we don't have enough elite playmakers.
WR wasn't a need, nt, olb and fs was more important at that point, there's a reason we traded for Marshall and Hartline showed some promise last season that he could be the #2 guy.
Odrick was good in the preseason. But, we've seen guys look good in preseason before and then disappear during the regular season. We still don't know if he's going to be good or not.
There are always what ifs....... So there is absolutely no way to tell if Dez would be good in Miami.
Dez Bryant isnt here and we all understand that. The issue at hand here is Ireland and his philosophy.
Sorry but you're wrong..... and you're seeing the results this year. We let Ginn go.... We knew that Cammy was replaceable and weren't sure about his future after his knee injury.... and we had a 3rd round bust at WR still on the roster. So give me a break with this "we didn't need a WR garbage". We dropped 3 of our WRs from last year's roster (including our deep threat) and replaced it with 1 receiver (Marshall). We basically have 3 WRs on this roster. A reliable #2 WR IS a need. A deep threat to open up the field and draw the safties IS a need. A return specialist IS a need. You're just trying to place more emphasis on other positions b/c you think these other positions are more important. By your philosophy I could just as easily say we didn't need another OLB b/c we had Wake, Dansby, Crowder, and Moses. Dez is a much greater upgrade over Hartline than Misi is over Moses by the way. You also have to take into account how much the draft pick upgrades the position he'll be assuming. We were short an important #2 receiver/deep threat plain and simple. We also were short a punt/ko return threat. Try and argue against that. We didn't need a FS b/c they wanted to see what Clemons had to offer. We weren't hurting on the Dline evidence by their play thus far (even without Odrick and Merling). We needed an OLB, but there is no way in heck that Misi is more of a dominant force at OLB than Dez is at WR. Not to mention Moses is actually playing well for the limited time he's seeing on the field. You're also leaving out 1 important ingredient: which is the development of your franchise QB, which trumps ALL!!! If you get someone with potential, you surround him with weapons to ensure his success. LBs and Dline are abundant this year. We could've very easily drafted Dez last year, had our offense set to score points, and then grabbed our OLB and whatever other defensive need in the 2011 draft when our needs become more apparent as our defense will have had a year under Nolan to show itself.
Huh? You hike the ball...... Henne throws it to him..... Dez runs for a bunch of YAC.... end of story. It's not that complicated. He's doing it in Dallas after missing the beginning of the year and now with a backup QB. I seriously doubt he wouldn't be good here with Marshall playing opposite him drawing more of the coverage. Dez would thrive here b/c he's tremendous and catching short passes and making plays out of them. That's what I was preaching before the draft. You find simple ways to get the kid the ball and let him do the work. It doesn't get any easier. If he were a DeSean Jackson type, then you could have a more valid argument.
Everyone is supposed to thrive in Miami according to the fan base... then they show up and lay an egg. Wash, rinse, repeat. It is all speculation.
i can't believe people are actually arguing against us drafting an elite Andre Johnson caliber WR over a DE converted to LB who may only be good to average..... or a DE when we already have Starks, Langford, McDaniel, and Merling. What's next? Passing on a Chris Johnson 2.0 so we can take a LG? Seriously. Elite WRs do NOT grow on trees. Good LB's and Dline, however, are more abundant.
Yeah, they lay and egg b/c there's no one playing opposite of them to help them out and draw some coverage from time to time.
