Ever so brief, but I've been saying this for over a dozen years. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/videobeta/?watchId=eaf94a43-ef38-46ba-8bf0-9327e0d20e0f The current stadium simply does not compare. It can't because of the way it is structured. It is sad that Joe Robbie just did not have the vision of what a stadium could and should be. He was on the cusp of a new era of stadiums built specifically for their sports and he went the way of the old era. The present stadium is easily 30-40 yards too wide and too gentle of a slope. The OB, while in some respects not as fan friendly for those in seats - with its steep sides and overhang - was nevertheless a tight, on-top-of-the-field, rocking place. I remember it shaking in the upper deck in the Dolphins '85 playoff win against the Browns (trailing 21-3 entering the 4th and Miami won 24-21). Incredibly loud. You could see and feel the intimidation factor on the Browns. I also think that a stadium that rocked with noise would bring more fans in, in spite of the heat. Perhaps it's just that we fans (though I don't live in So Flo and don't have the opportunity to attend games as often) have become soft in an era of convenience, comfort, general societal softness, and big screen LCD TVs. Obviously there are also economic issues. But, there are stadiums around the league that are full even in bad weather - and even with teams that are 4-4 or 5-4 and struggling. Whatever the innumerable reasons - when a team is 4-4 and has a big home game and the stadium is full of so many empty seats (as the game against the Titans) - something is amiss. The crowd noise from TV was like an afternoon July baseball game. I do think that a stadium that was geared toward crowd noise; that had great acoustics (along with all the other bells and whistles) would be a bigger draw. It would be much more of an event that people wanted to be a part of and feel as though they are a true factor in the game. It's like a Bruce Springsteen concert. When you are there you feel as though you are part of something incredibly special and that you, the audience, are totally involved. I really think that experience could be so powerful from a noise factor that more fans would feel they have to be there and be fully involved; rather than being blase as many, not all, fans are. Even if the seating were reduced to 65-75k fans it would be a better situation for the Dolphins (which is better - to have a rockin' stadium, sold out, at 68-72K, with fans clamoring for tickets; or 60K in a stadium that hold 80K and is relatively quiet?). I almost feel, though the money simply is not there, that the best thing is to scrap the present stadium. Either way - for this franchise to be successful, major improvements (not just the trite, superficial external ones of "fan experience" outside the stadium). Maybe they can and will but it will be tough to bring all the fans closer and tighter in - short of a complete rebuild. I also think that the players will respond better. Here's hoping that good things happen for the Dolphins vis-a-vis an improved stadium.
Deej in 5..4..3.. Agree, what they are doing with Sun Life now is a classic case of throwing good money after bad, Wayne H dumped 250m into stadium improvements the year Ross bought the team, now Ross wishes to sink another 180m into the stadium to make it more palatable for the NFL, though they do not mind having a SB in the Frozen Northeast in the outdoors, anywho, that is 440m, which to me would have been better spent on a new facility rather than the lifeless current one. Joe Robbie envisioned a multi function facility that could host world cup games, but there has not been a single match played there in 24 yrs..ooppss
Gotta admit that old s%#@-hole of a dump was alot of fun when it got loud.Too bad the newer version is so wide open and distant from the field.The team will continue to lose that advantage it once had.
Da'Fins....your inside me...lol.. Thank you, and I will not partake in this discussion for fear of being redundant or annoying.... I wish that you would send this link and your response to Mike Dee, I think he's on our level, and get's it.. Quantifiable proof... The oregon Duck's rise to the top of college football..The brand.. 52 game winning streak. 3 Hurricane college football championship's.. 2 Miami Dolphin's football championships.. Sun Life..0... OB2.....A financial superstar... I can go much deeper with my reason's, but I digress..
I bet one of the reason Seahawk stadium always sells out is because of the noise. It is an amazing place to go for that reason. So much energy. The Seahawks also have a good home record.
Oh boy, if they have the horrible season it is shaping up to be, if they don't make a late season run to reach say 7-9, that place will be a tomb.. Massive inside with no people..ugh...
Their problem is they make their money on the luxury boxes, which are sold out, next season though, who will pony up 2 million a year?
Didn't hurt them last year when they went 6-2 at home (11-5 overall). Didn't hurt them when they had their 1st playoff victory in 13 yrs.
I go to alot of games, and the inprovements they've made there are great. The Club level is awesome, and the areas surrounding the 400 and 100 sections are a nice addition. There's plenty of room to move around and there are TV's all over the place, so you never miss a play of the game. As far as crowd noise, blame the people in the stands, cause I've been to games where that stadium is loud as ****. Also, the idea of getting a new stadium can pretty much be ruled out, they're too expensive and Dade County is already financing the Marlins new stadium. So, love what we have, it's our stadium, we don't have PSL's, and it's constantly being upgraded. It's convienent to major highways and easy to get out of. I for one, like our stadium, more than the Orange Bowl, that place was a **** hole.
Well if you want modern crowd noise look to Seattle and the Louisiana Superdome in NOLA. I think when the Marlins leave and they change the seating and move it closer, Miami could get some of that back, because there have been times when the current stadium has been pretty loud. Qwest Field opened in 2002 so modern stadiums can get that noise. One of the reasons it is the loudest stadium in the NFL is there are metal bleachers in the north end zone [Orange Bowl had metal too, right?]. Maybe when the Sunlife seats are moved closer, they will use metal, though I doubt it. Someone should start a petition for metal bleachers somewhere in the stadium! Even just one section, like that "deep end." Even Buffalo when they were good, and Green Bay because of the old school stadiums close to the field there have good advantages.
TP, I couldn't quote you cause I just couldn't see that photo again, lol...I set that one up for ya.. funny story where I got that from, one day my best friend had some gas issues, if you know what I mean, he let one out that just crippled me, he looked over at me, and in the calmest voice said, '' iam inside you right now.''...I laughed so freakin hard man..
Couldn't agree more. The OB was a piece of ****, especially during the latter years. The crowd noise is what it is, people just need to be louder. If we really want to blame someone for it, we should blame the dumbass season ticket holders who sell of their seats to fans of the opposing team (where they make a nice profit I'm sure). That's really what kills the atmosphere IMO. But that opens up the "transplant" debate and I'm tired of having to explain that to people who aren't familiar with the South Florida demographic.
Oh, and the Hurricanes beat the **** out of everyone at home because they were flat-out better. That place was no louder than the Shoe, Death Valley or the Big House. Miami was just a badass team who refused to lose on their home field.
the point of what Da'fins is saying XXX, is that the stadium itself motivated the fan to have more energy, the group energy because of the stadium configuration enriched the experience, gave the players an extra edge, and unquestionably became a distraction to the opponent..our current situation does nothing of the sort, except make it very comfortable for an opponent to play in.
I know what he's saying, it's been a gripe amongst fans for a lot of years. I've been to too many games to count at Joe Robbie/Pro Player/Dolphin/Sun Life Stadium. I really don't think it makes as much difference on the field as we fans think it does. The design of the stadium isn't the reason the fans aren't loud. It's the fans that are the reason the fans aren't loud. Take the Monday Night Game last year against the Jets for example. That was arguably the loudest that stadium has been in years. That place can get loud when the people there want it to be.
I highly doubt our HoF coach has a negative opinion on Jerry Jones' stadium, and even if he did I doubt he'd say that's a reason why they are like 2-7 this year.
A look back at crowd noise: http://www.miamidolphins.com/video?bcpid=585645507001&bclid=260803762001&bctid=671194402001
I've watched nearly that entire game on YouTube. That was probably the worst commentated game of MNF History, and that's taking into consideration the Dennis Miller/Kornheiser days. Frank Gifford and Joe Namath were practically distraught every time the Dolphins scored. It's saying something when OJ was actually the best guy in the booth.
Deej..is like that bug from "A Bug's Life" that flies right into the bug zapper when it comes to this one. "A new stadium, it is so beautiful..."
when you say it can get louder in there if people want it to be, then it tells me you are not getting what dynamic I am talking about... Put it this way, the orange bowl itself and the noise and energy it could create could inspire fans to take their noise and cheering to another level, our stadium now inspires most to sit on their ***, because, they are too far away to make the difference that they want, so in turn, they become passive... It takes a lot of variables for fans in our current stadium to reach their optimum level, and even then, it cannot make the difference relative to what the orange bowl could...Fans had crowd noise and impact on their mind when they walked into the orange bowl, which in turn, we have proof that it made a difference in the outcomes of games and player performance.. what does our current stadium do to help our team perform?....nothing, it only benefits the opponent because of its comfortability...If that's fine for you XXX, ok, i understand, no biggie, its just something that I feel has hurt our teams morale, and our franchises reputation.
if you dont think it made a difference for both programs, then obviously were in different ball parks on the subject....its ok, no big deal, to each is own..
From 1997 to 2002....In this stadium that makes opposing teams "comfortable"... While playing in a division that was pretty damn good... The Miami Dolphins were 37-11 at home, not counting the playoffs. 39-12 counting the playoffs. Was it the crowd noise that helped us? NO. A good team did. Crowd noise would not have won ONE more game in that period.
All us oldtimers know that there is a TREMENDOUS difference in Home field avantage we lost moving to Joe Robbie Stadium. I never liked the concrete condo from the first time I stepped inside. The OB rocked and without thousands of overpriced "club seats" it was filled with many thousands more of your regular Joe blue collar fans. That played a part in the rowdiness of the stadium as well.
Look Sec.... I know you've been around this team a LONG time just like myself. I know you attended games in the Orange Bowl. You must remember the experience. Crowd noise won't ever win a game for you. I don't disagree there. You have to have the talent. However, you simply cannot deny that a deafening loud home crowd presents problems to teams. They can cause forced TO's, delays of game, penalties, confusion of players on plays and there is a bit of intimidation involved. Crowd noise won't win games but it can certainly help the effort greatly. I can name game after game where I witnessed teams clearly shaken by that closed end of the Orange Bowl. Chicago in 85 was just one of them. It's not just dizzy fans being silly thinking noise can be an issue. You have Don Shula flat out stating that it was a big advantage. It's not the end all but it is a great advantage that our current stadium does not allow us and that's a damn shame.
Comfort and instant gratification is the name of the game in stadiums today.I wont be surprised if all stadiums will be domed and air conditioned in the future.The digital consoles in every seat is already being tested. They may even be digitally fed crowd noise in the stadium in the future . TV shows run canned laughter all of the time .Football is a show after all . Not while while most of us are alive but thats the trend IMO.
Sadly you are correct. It sickens me but it is what it is. As for the fake crowd noise that's already been tried by some teams and If I'm not mistaken the NFL has specifially addressed this and outlawed it.
Arent they still renovating the stadium when th marlins leave to hold more people and bring the fans closer to the sidelines?
we have heard things and read things that Mike dee has recognized the issues with our stadium and wants to do something about the disadvantage.
I don't know why people think the solution to get more crowd noise is to build a new stadium. Of new stadiums, the Seahawks have the only one that has good noise. The trend is very much toward stadiums like the Colt's Lucas Oil, Jerrah's Pleasure Palace, the new Giants stadium etc. Places that emphasize comfort and luxury boxes, bringing in the higher dollar fans and squeezing out the lower dollar ones that scream all game. I don't see any reason to think Ross wouldn't follow suit if a new stadium was in the plans. If you think the noise is bad now, it could get worse. The biggest issue is just smaller and quieter crowds. In general they just don't seem that raucous.
To be fair the fans have had nothing to cheer for recently. 1 playoff win in 10 years, late season choke jobs, this franchise has sucked. Even when they made the playoffs from 97-01 it was a lock that they would get embarrassed in the divisional round every single time. Can't blame the stadium for that. We're basically the Minnesota Timberwolves of the NFL. The Dolphins sure put me to sleep tonight, but I'm lucky and got to change the channel to TBS so I can watch The Office reruns instead of this team. The poor fans in the crowd dont have that luxury, I feel bad for them almost.
I've been to big OB games and JR games and there is no comparison, imo - the OB was louder and rockin. And i've been to other stadiums that are much louder. I don't think fans all of a sudden stopped cheering. When I went the Rob in the early 90's, the Dolphins had Marino and a team that everyone thought primed for a SB run. The fans cheered loudly but it just did not have the noise factor. One can even hear the noise difference on TV between the Dolphins stadium (even in the Jet MNF game) and other stadiums. But, even if the fans are not cheering as loudly - I think a big part of that is the nature of the stadium itself. It's pretty clear that some stadiums have much better acoustics than others (Seattle is a prime example!). The current stadium is not a great stadium from that perspective - seats are spread out; they are WAY too far from the field relative to other stadiums (that makes a big difference); they are also sloped more smoothly in the lower deck than some other stadiums. I also agree with DJ that when you make it too comfortable that can detract. And, the Seattle stadium argument is exactly the point. It's a great stadium. It only holds around 67,000 (13K fewer) but the seating is closer, the noise rocks b/c of the shape and the overhang of the upper deck - it as much more acoustically sound than JR (or Sun Life - or whatever it will be called three hours from now). Even on TV, it's a great game to watch just b/c of the stadium! That's a great stadium. The Dolphins is not, imo. And, the attendance is atrocious - certainly Seattle is not that much better than Miami the past few years. Yet, they rock out. It's not the only team that way. It may seem artificial, but, get a stadium where the seats are 30-40 yards in closer on each sideline, reduce the seating to 65-70K, making it tighter all the way around, get some overhangs over the upper deck (and even darken the seats when you do that - since they'll be protected from the sun) and get a sense of real closeness to the field for the fans - rather than being 8 miles away b/c a) the stands don't start for 25-30 yards from the field; b) they are sloped to gently ... And you will have a rockin', loud, exciting fan experience that will draw bigger crowds and more exciting crowds. I've been to big B-ball venues and I've been to Cameron Indoor at Duke (holds 9,314). Cameron is far more intimidating b/c it is loud and fans are right on top of the court. Other places with plush nice settings are not near as loud or intimidating b/c fans are more comfortable and the seating pushes them further from the court and slopes away much faster. JMO - but I think those arguments are significant and I don't think the present stadium is anywhere near one of the louder ones. Even when full and rockin' at its peak.
Who cares about any of this, really? There is not going to be a new stadium. there is no point in talking about this, or getting nostalgic for something that is long gone. If this current team moved back into the Orange Bowl tomorrow they would still suck. I don't know whay that is so hard to accept? I get that people are frusturated and are looking for some esoteric reason for the mediocrity to general suckitude over the last 20 years, but pining away for a stadium that was torn down 3 years ago is just counterproductive. The Dolphins haven't won a Superbowl in nearly 40 years because they sucked for most of those years. Particularly the past 20, we have been poorly managed, poorly coached, drafted average to terrible players, made ridiculous trades and have failed to find a competent QB despite trying 15 of them. This organization sucks because they have failed to find good football players for the better part of 2 decades. Not because they moved out of a stadium.
Well the reason the OB was such a dump in the latter years was the City of Miami. They had promised a number of times to upgrade the stadium, but failed to do so. That's the reason the U of Miami left. Some even think there was a conspiracy between the Marlins and the City to not upgrade so the U of Miami would be forced out. Who knows if that is the truth, but I find it interesting that even though the City promised to upgrade, the U chose not to force them to court to get those upgrades and left rather than fight to keep the home the Hurricanes had played in for 72 years. I would also like to say many of those "season ticket holders" are phantom people, but actually brokers who bought the tickets years ago and sell them on a game to game basis. If you'll notice the same seats often times are with those opposing teams fans. Online places like Stubhub have brought out the worst of these people. Now it easier than ever for them. But many of these tickets have never been in the hands of DolFans, but were sold by Joe Robbie to ticket profiteers years ago, and have never been available to DolFans most likely. The people that own them have no alligience to the Dolphins whatsoever, but have only an alligience to their wallets.
