Thigpen could be the best fit down the stretch (and an interesting Henne stat)

And thankfully he was trying that yesterday.

 

[MOD]Not Needed[/MOD]

The offense has no true vertical threat (hence needing to use a flea-flicker to go deep), a conservative OC, 3 possession receivers and a possession TE, yet it's our cannon armed QB who "limits our offensive box to a 10 yard section of the field"? Oh gheesh. And I bet you blame McDonald's coffee for being too hot when you spill it on yourself.

 

Henne does have a cannon arm, but anybody who's paying attention can see that his longstanding tendencies below are having the opposite affect on his ability to throw downfield:

1) lock onto receivers (this dates back to his college days; look up the scouting reports yourself)
2) be abnormally hesitant to trust his eyes and make throws into tight quarters and/or into zones where the receivers are going to be and not necessarily where they are (i.e. he's great in man coverage, but horrendous vs zones)
3) Due to 1 and 2 above, a tendency to become predictable in the eyes of safeties coming over the top...if you need proof, just look at the film on him vs. zone coverage, or ask Ed Reed what he thinks of Henne's predictability

Now, I could go further to provide mountains of empirical data to support what I'm stating, but something tells me you won't engage in any fair, logical debate, and when I make my point with a resounding level of clarity and supportive evidence, you'll retort with some stupid dick joke. So, I'll save my time and breath and spend it on a poster who is willing to look at different points of view. I'm done with you pal. Not worth it.

 

Kolb is arguably not a better QB than Henne..... He has more weapons and a wide open offense to work with. We're not paying starting QB type money to bring in a guy to back up Henne, especially when Thiggy has a chance to show that he deserves the role. We've invested time in Henne, and you don't just drop all that for no reason when he's shown that he's still improving (especially considering he's had to face the toughest first 9 games in the NFL w/o the aid of a reliable ground game).

 

From listening to alot of football talk shows.....

The Eagles plan on Keeping Vick and Kolb. I think they are both signed through next season now as well....

 

There was an entire thread a few weeks ago in which we were discussing the "small box offense" Miami was putting on the field. Many thought it was because of Henning's play calling, others felt it was Henne's fear of throwing to anyone who isn't wide open and throw to spots in zone coverage. I won't restate the entire discussion here, as you can look it over when you have time. Suffice to say, I'm not the only one who noticed that as the year went on, and defenses rounded off their gameplans for how to attack Henne, his achilles heel vs. zones became so blatanatly obvious that we just couldn't attack the deep part of the field. Each game Henne attacked the deep zones less and less. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But that's what I see to be evident to me.

 

Exactly, now depending, one can say "Henne was peeved at being benched for Pennington and was letting it fly downfield" or "Henning finally called downfield passing plays"

For me, could care less why he was doing it, as long as did it, and keeps on doing it.

 

I'm arguing with him limiting our offense to 10yd boxes this year. I don't know how someone can say that and not apply the same opinion to last year when we're doing better in chunk passes then last year. That's what I'm getting at. If someone thinks Henne limits us to 10 yd boxes in general, fine, whatever. I don't know that I want to take the time to argue, but suffice to say I do disagree that Henne is the problem.

 

I think once again it was a little from column A and a little from column B.

 

I respec that you don't think Henne is THE problem. We disagree, but that's fine. I do however disagree that we're better at "chunk" yards this year than last. I'll look up some stats, but off the top of my head we have been VERY limited in that department this year it seems to me. Maybe I'm wrong and I've just gotten the wrong vibe from watching the games. But I don't think that's the case. I recall Henne attacking the deep middle MUCH more last year than this year. And the reference to "small box" offense was for this year, not last year.

 

i'm ok with Thiggy starting on THU ... not to 'bench' Henne, especially as in accordance with my posts - i am an ardent Henne supporter and still believe him to be our ABOVE average starter for the next 8-10 years .... HOWEVER, i would like him to not play on THU IF Long is out --- as he will get crushed by the CHI OLBs ...

we have NO ONE to replace Long .... Carey blows at LT .... and if he is the best option - it will be a turnstile at LT, and our pass protection (a strength thus far this season) will quickly become an achilles heal.

Sooo, i would rather have Thiggy play because he is mobile and provides us an opportunity to extend plays. He will cost us plays as well, but it is worth the risk - at least initially (say the 1st half) to see how it goes. As long as Long is down, keeping Thiggy in there just 'might' be the right answer, unless we can come with a better option along the line.

oh, and of course, we'll see a revitalization of the WC to boot ....

 

He did not just get popular because people like to follow people around here. He is very good at providing some of the best evaluations around. This site has some damned good football savy individuals so they know something good when they read it. I would think you're a pretty smart football guy. Even though you're new within the last couple of seasons. It's obvious you're no dummy but it kind of strikes me the wrong way when you say he has to show you a more in depth reason. That's fine and I may be totally wrong here but by saying just because he has a large following here is not good enough for you, well that kind of slaps those people in the face who really like his stuff and trust his hard work. It kind of smells like you think you may know better than his friends who thanks him constantly for taking the time to write so many contributions to this site. Not saying that's how you meant it but it comes off that way a little. Just saying...

Your question is really quite simple to me. So far we've seen two really good college Qb's this year. The rest are way behind those two. There might be some diamonds in there but to waste a 1st round pick on? I don't know about that....

 

Right, I know that. I'm saying Henne isn't putting us in a small box this year, especially if he didn't do it last year.

And we're better at chunk passes this year, I am not sure we're better at chunk yards. Our running game has been relatively poor for majority of the year.


And for the record I've said numerous times that Henne has been part of the problem with the offense all year this year. But he isn't the only problem or even responsible for the majority IMO.

 

If he plays well I think he has a right to challenge for the starting spot next year.

 

I love how you "attempt" to exert your dominance by using big words to seem more credible.


Here's a few scouting reports for you:

 

Thats his biggest problem.

I have preached this more than anything on here.

He needs to get better Mental Toughness.

Its one thing to want to protect the ball and not throw INTs but to be MR. Checkdown to the HB because your scared of that throw to Marshall (that isnt 5-7 yards in front of the LOS) or holding back the TE all the time for max protect, its an issue.

Because the problem is that when you make that deep throw to Marshall (like he did) and your head is screwed up, your going to mess that throw up and BAM .....INT.

He needs to get some swagger and confidence.

Saw how Thigpen reacted after that TD throw? Dude went crazy.

Saw how CP was dancing around to Eminem?

Things like that inspire people to follow you to the pits of hell and back.

The 'robot' thing needs to die a quick death and he needs to get his head straight in order to reach his potential.

I am sorry, but if Thigpen goes crazy and we go on a streak, Henne needs to sit. You cant stunt the growth of one QB 'just because' you want to shoe horn Henne in there for better or worse.

I WISH BB did that back in the day to Bledsoe vs Brady though LOL

If he is average however, then Henne needs to get back in there and continue to show signs of progress. Unfortunately for this season, his time is running out and he is still making some key mistakes (locking on Top Gun style, weak mental state, questionable field vision). BUT the good news is his pocket awareness has improved and this last game he did show some willingness to get it to the TE and push it. He must keep it going and not take one step forward and then two steps back.

 

Mr Checkdown? To the RBs?

Our RBs have 38 catches on 56 targets (and that's including passes where RBs weren't outlet passes, since I can't differentiate with the stats I have available). Even if all 56 targets were from Henne, that's only 18.3% of his passes going to backs.

Chargers backs have 73 catches on 92 targets. That 27.96% of all Phillip Rivers' passes.

Patriots have 35 catches on 52 targets. 17% of all the Patriots' passes.

Saints have 59 catches on 73 targets. 19.5% of all Drew Brees' passes.

Ravens have 55 catches on 73 targets. 24.56% of Flacco's passes.

Falcons have 53 catches on 58 targets. 17.1% of Ryan's passes.

There are other teams with higher % of targets to backs than Henne (Steelers), and some with less (Colts & Packers). The point is, Henne is hardly Mr. Checkdown. He's likely right in line with the norm.

 

I love Jake Long, but this is evidence that the LT position is highly overrated. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, a leak can spring from any of the 5 OL positions.

 

How many of those were on 3rd and Long and the pass 5 yards or less?

 

I'll go through the play by play I guess, and if it's to a RB on 3rd down I will assume it's a checkdown (though I know it isn't always the case). What is "long" though? Over 5 yds?

I'm not about to do that for every other team, but I think it would be a pretty misguided assumption to think other teams' percentage of 3rd down "checkdowns" will wind up being much different.


And I love that now I have to prove anything about 3rd downs, when what I replied to simply stated checkdowns. Not to mention, I'm actually providing some tangible proof to go against someone's claim, as opposed to someone just saying "oh he's Mr. Checkdown."

 

I would draft him.

I wouldn't play him at quarterback. He is a great athlete.

 

I sincerely hope that we don't consider a first round QB this year mainly b/c I don't see it as a particularly good QB year. I also don't agree that Henne is the problem. I think that people who keep claiming that Henne is staring down his receivers haven't been paying attention. That really isn't an issue for him anymore. IMO he stares down receivers about as much as the average NFL starter. He hasn't developed that ability to move the coverage around with his eyes but neither have most starters not in the top 5 or so. I don't know if Henne will ever reach that level. A year ago I would have said no way. But he has clearly improved his eye control, his progressions and even his accuracy. I would even say his touch is better, although its still pretty bad. Now I'm willing to admit that he might reach that level. I still wouldn't say its likely, but I will no longer claim its impossible.

 

3rd and 5 or longer with Henne: 65 instances that were called pass plays. 27 conversions. 8 passes to RBs (12.3%), 13 passes to Marshall (20%).

Just for reference that means on 3rd and 5+ Henne has 41.5% conversions, which compared to the rest of the NFL over all 3rd downs would put us at 9th in the NFL (we're currently 3rd with 45.7%, 59/129).

So yea, I'm thinking 3rd and "long" isn't a problem for Henne, nor are checkdowns to RBs on 3rd and "long."

 

Good job Stitch ...

 

Keep in mind, Thigpen's history, and when he performs the best, is in the spread offense. He can make all the throws, has a good arm and is mobile. He is fairly unknown to me and I don't have much on him. But....From what I saw, I liked.

 

Yesterday was the first time he's ever played without having to worry about Penny over his shoulder and waiting for the hook.... he had already been benched and embarrassed by the little fistpumper, so he's finally out there thinking "Screw these guys, I'm gonna let it rip and they can all kiss my ***, I got nothing to lose"

 

I love how so many fans now seem to think Thigpen is the next coming of Marino. It seems many have forgotten that he was third string before the injuries to Pennington and Henne. Yes, he is able to run better than either of the other two QB's. But he doesn't have the mental grasp of the game Pennington has, nor the arm Henne has. He will be expected to play the games and commit no errors. It will be up to the defense and special teams to keep the games close as it has been all year. If Thigpen was the answer on offense. He would have been the starter from the beginning of the season. Not the third string QB. I certainly hope he is a success in his new role as the starter. I also accept though that not many teams are able to play winning football with their third team QB having to play the entire game. As diehard Dolphin fans. I certainly understand the desire for many on here to see the glass as half full instead of half empty. The Bears, unlike the Titans will be able to game plan for Thigpen. If the Dolphins are not able to run the ball any better then they did against the Titans and have to rely on the passing of Thigpen to win the game. The Dolphins may be in for a long night Thursday. I will be there rooting on the Dolphins and Thigpen Thursday. I hope he has a great game. I also realize that I should not get my expectations too high because whether fans want to admit it or not. There is a reason Thigpen has been holding a clipboard all year and not playing QB on Sunday's for the Dolphins.

 

yeah our hope resides in stealing a game while he's the starter. i think he's good enough to win a game or two if we can get our running game going somehow. but there is a reason he's 3rd string

 

The ball just sails on him at times, will be interesting to see if Henning pushes him down into the Henne/Pennington style offense or if he allows him to create out on the edge of the formation.

What I do like about him is the situation has never seemed to big for him, the Steelers game in 09, the Titans game in 10, he acts as if he SHOULD be making plays downfield.

Thigpen seems not to realize how difficult this here NFL quarterbackin' thingy is supposed to be..

 

I am not saying he is the next coming or he should of been etc etc. I will say he is capable, a gamer and can sling it. As a 7th round pick from Coastal Carolina he didn't get invited to the combine and was always the other guy. He went through a coaching change and turnover in KC and wasn't their guy. He could surprise some of you. He isn't a dink and dunk QB. He always looks down the field, the game isn't too fast for him, he is smart and loves to throw it. If Henning is willing to open it up, the kid can play.

 

Interestingly enough, managed to get a question to Coach Sparano this evening on his regular Monday radio appearance asking him why he compared him to Tony Romo, Sparano went with that for just a bit then compared him to a Aaron Rodgers type of Qb who can move outside of the pocket and throw the ball downfield.

 

Not buying that argument...... nor do I think any NFL QB would either. True, a leak can spring from anywhere, but the reason the LT is paid more is b/c that's not always a leak that a QB can see. W/o a left tackle, there is no chain period. I think you should have this discussion with Matt Stafford.

 

Nice. I asked some friends about him. PM me and I'll share.

Seems like he has all the tools, good on the run, ability to reload and clean release. I would think he could have some plays devised where he is lining up as a wide receiver in the WC, as he can catch....believe it or not. Anyway, he can be a slinger and force the ball too much... but the offense shouldn't slow down at all.

 

Thigpen can play, and his best asset is when the play breaks down and he scrambles around a little. As you say he does keep his eyes down the field and he will attack the defense. At the same time, he does take risks and can be a bit emotional out there in that he can get a bit hyped up and make some bad reads, or he can simply hold the ball too long; looking to make a play. In KC that was one thing he did often; hold the ball. If he starts doing that he can struggle. If he can play under control a little he can make some plays. People should remember that game against us 2 years ago when he carved up our defense and I think we won 44-38 or something in an insane game.

One thing I think gets overlooked about Thigpen is that he has a quick release and he doesn't need to settle down and wind up to throw. That release can get him out of trouble.

 

Good stuff.

 

http://thefinsiders.com/category/podcast/

right at the top.

I finally made the Trifecta, Parcells, Ireland and Sparano, now if I could hit up Brian Gaine with a question, then I'd have the front office and Staff as well.

 

Whats somewhat ironic is that the gunslinger label was used to describe Henne, which is a little off IMO. Thigpen is a gunslinger. There is no way I would expect this staff to be able to hem that in. Thigpen may actually add fuel to the fire about whether its Henne or Henning affecting this offense. You'd expect a somewhat limited play sheet for Thiggy. Not a rookie version by any means but the guy hasn't exactly been getting tons of reps. If there is a somewaht limited play book we'll get a better view of whether there are truly receivers downfield on a majority of routes as I expect Thigypen to throw to a few of them. He is a vertical passer.

 

When the season started, I'm pretty sure Henne was the back-up (hence him playing in Arizona).

 

Well unless that's an absolute guarantee, I don't see how this a good reason for drafting a QB in the first round. I could use that logic to say we shouldn't have drafted Vontae Davis in the first round because we drafted Jamar Fletcher in the first round. It turned out pretty good for us just as it could turn pretty bad for us drafting a QB in the first round.

 

We have our 3rd QB--- Tom Brandstater. With Henne, Thiggy, and Brandstater, drafting another QB would be useless overkill IMO (at this stage at least). You could take a flier to give Tom some competition at the #3 spot, but even that might not be necessary.