I still support Henne

Yeah, well Henne's on crutches and Thiggy is up to bat...

 

I swear some of you Henne lovers don't actually watch the game. He made a couple good throws bit for the most part he was typical Henne.

 

define " typical Henne".

 

I feel the the way.....except the towards Henne Haters.

the majority of mistakes that he makes are really no different than the other 31 qb's in the league make

you guys need to relax abit

I could understand if he was going 11 for 25 for a 140 yards

but he's passing quite accurate and getting good yardage

 

so he has accuracy issues on 3rd down, and in the redzone
on out routes and on deep throws, but yet he still has a completion percentage thats in the top 10 in the league (64%)?

and his 7 yards per attempt is still pretty good, putting him ahead of guys like Matt Ryan and Drew Brees....

I don't think alot of you guys give him enough credit

 

Sorry haters. I'm still a Henne supporter. I think Thiggy will fill a backup role just fine behind him. Sad to see Penny out, may be a career-ender for him.

 

Henne doesn't throw a TD to Fasano in the red zone like Thigpen did. He would check down to the RB or throw it away.

 

when was Thigpen "terrible" in the game yesterday?

Not only did he not cost us the win, but he sealed it with an 85 yard TD drive that was nearly perfectly executed.

Henne played pretty well, but let's not pretend that he was some kind of all star out there. He's hurt anyway, there is no ahrm, and no choice, in being excited about what Thigpen can potentially bring to the table.

And although I'm usually not big on "intangibles" Thigpen brought a spark, an energy, a jolt, a "something" to the offense that has been missing. It was just a different, better vibe. Whether that manifests over the course of a full game or 7 games is another story, but I'm curious to find out.

 

Here is what bothers me, Thigpen has a large body of work, he will be the Qb for 3 or 4 game maybe longer, why haven't the folks who are Henne Fans done half of the work on Thigpen's play that they have on Henne's?

I think he had a fine game, but his knee cap is off to the right at the moment, you kinda have to go into games with the guy you have, not the guy you'd like to have..you know?

I mean 4 games from now, what difference will it make how Henne played on Sunday?

 

why four weeks? if there is no ligament damage he will play in two weeks at the latest. Its not as if he needs mobility to play his game. As for thigpen, he's very exciting when he comes in without having teams gameplan for him. he's very mobile and a playmaker. the thing is he's erratic. maybe david lee coached out some of that and he'll be more disciplined when he plays. dont know yet. his body of work suggests he's a 2nd year tony romo but who knows maybe he's ready to be a fifth year tony romo. won't know till we see him play

 

Well, you may laugh and probably should dismiss this "but":

I heard Henne's voice in the locker room after the game, he sounded exactly like he did last Monday on the Finsiders, normally a straight talker when his voice wobbles a bit, that is not good news.

YMMV

As for Thigpen, who knows?

I do think he can easily run this offense, I also think he is occasionally erratic maybe 1 in every 7 or 8 throws sails on him, or did, remains to be seen.

 

well drew rosenhous is saying he doesnt believe either jake's or henne's injuries are season ending so who knows

the thing with thigpen isnt that he throws an occasional errant throw IMO its that he is inconsistent from series to series. He seems like a streak thrower. He gets hot for a series or two and then gets ice cold for a series. and his problem has been that when he gets cold his passes sail like you said which leads to picks. who knows, would like to see him turn the corner finally and start getting something close to consistency

 

Thing is, his real starting experience was with Chan Gailey's spread style offense, in Miami usually we do not ask the Qb to do nearly as much as that system requires.

I do think that his style fits our weapons the best of the 2 Qb's, Henne is very methodical, Thigpen will throw the ball to anyone at any time, one leads to more completions the other to longer plays.

sunny point #2 is, "if' we sign 2 new Qb's, say Ramsey and Brennen, someone will have to be waived to make room, as Henne won't be Ir'd unless absolutely he will not factor this year, which means a roster slot has to be kept open..someone is leaving as Pennington being Ir'd only creates one hole.

Ireland will really have to earn his pay, not only does he have to find guys who can reasonably be plugged in, he also has to create roster space for them.

 

Lessons in forum Posters, November: The conjecturist. This forum poster usually has a feeling, an inclination, or an intense desire for something and thus posts it as fact. They then become insulted when someone calls them out on it and pretend as if it's Nazi Germany silencing debate. The conjecturist would usually be debated if he backed up his points but they're usually incapable or unwilling to do so. Approach responding to conjecturists with caution.

 

Thigpen played well, albeit on only one drive worth of plays. 4/6 is good in relief but I need to see him in a full game. I's like to see him start against the Bears although I'm afraid as I believe their D leads the league in turnovers forced. If he goes out there and lights it up, we have a competition on our hands. Competition is always good.

I don't think anyone can claim Thigpen is God-tier yet because of 1.5 series of action and Henne still has room for improvement. The thing about Thigpen is that it looks to me that his ceiling was reached in KC and he isn't going to be improving anymore. If Thigpen gives us the best chance to win, Henne is injured, and we still want to retain him, I say let Thigpen play for now. I'd still like to see Henne get it done. That game was bizarre though.

 

yeah its a double edged sword. a pocket passer like henne can basically attack the entire field on any given play so depending on how many receivers are sent out on any given play thats how many threats you have but the negative, if you call it that, is he becomes more predictable. A scrambler like Thigpen will basically cut off half the field when he goes running to one side or the other thereby cutting down his options but he poses a challenge due to his unpredictability. I think with Henne its either going to be that he plays in two weeks or he's put on IR so we'll know today whether Ireland is signing two QBs or one.

With Thigpen its just waiting to see if the light ever goes on for him in terms of consistency. He has the raw tools. Can he harness those tools to become a dangerous weapon. The real key I think is all the other injuries. I dont know how many starters are going to be missing the next game or season. We can probably handle one or two but more than that and this season is basically done. You cant run the table if youre missing 20% of your starters and almost 100% of your impact players

 

Holy crap!!! Henne made it on Conan friday!

 

Have to disagree. Don't want to, but have to. I'm no Henne basher, I wanted nothing more than to see him shed his fear of throwing to a guy who isn't wide open, throw caution to the wind and just let it ride, after all, what's he got to lose? He already lost his job and was only playing because of injury to CP. And make no mistake about, Chad Henne's biggest problem has nothing to do with his arm or his feet, his hand size or his receivers. It's in between his ears. He's playing scared...STILL. You could see it in the way he danced around int he pocket as soon as he saw the rush close a little. You could see it in the way he "saw" something downfield only to double clutch and eat the ball before checking down for a 2 yard gain. He's lost his mojo. He's spooked.

And to make matters worse, he's lost the confidence of his teamates. The first glimpse of this was when he missed Fasano wide open in the end zone and Fasano vs Ravens and FAsano basically looked straight at Henne like "WTF...are you F-ing kidding me?" I didn't put too much into it at the time, as it was the first I'd seen of that, and had no idea of the benching that was to come later on. Once he was benched I sort of wandered just how much of that decision was affected by a more deep rooted problem of possible decension within the clubhouse with players beginning to lose faith in Henne and possibly even were at the point where they didn't feel like they could win with him. Again, at that time, it was just a thought in my head but had little to support it. And with a tight lipped group run by a tight lipped Coach in Sparano, I didn't think I'd ever get an answer to that sneaking suspicion. But yesterday, I saw numerous players exhibiting the same tell tale looks and body language directed toward Henne after an errant throw that I saw from Fasano last week. You could see it with Marshall on numerous plays after Henne came in, but non more apparent than when Henne just flat overthrew BM in the end zone, putting the ball where NOBODY could possibly catch it, and the one that got picked where even Fouts pointed out that that route is intended for the ball to be lead toward the middle of the field where BM can run TO it and make a play instead of having to basically stop in his tracks and try to make a circus catch over his head. Immediately after the closeup shots of his facial expressions should have told us alot. I saw similar body language from Fasano and Hartline after Henne missed them. These blatant "WTF" expressions, while we'll never be told anytime soo that it is in fact the case, are IMHO, a damning indictment upon Henne from his own guys that he's lost the most important trait a QB must possess, the faith and respect of those whom he intends to lead. And if my suspicions are right Maybe I'm reading into it, and I hope I'm wrong. But, those gestures toward a QB are unmistakable in my view. If you've got a problem with a QB you respect, you talk outside the huddle or on the sidelines where nobody can hear your words, and the LAST thing you do is act out for all the world to see that you're frustrated with your QBs play. And yet, it's right there on tape for all to see.

So, in all, not only did Henne continue to show a tendency to play scared by only thorwing deep when the player is WIDE open, but it looks to me like he might have lost the respect of his own players, if not his coaches too. Nothing short of a miraculous bout of enlightenment will change the path Henne has started down. Apparently, being benched in front of the whole world didn't have an affect. Will sitting at home watching Thigpen lead his team to more wins do the trick? We'll see.

 

I know, it's confounding, but the reasoning can be found in one word. HOPE.

Henne represented a ton of HOPE because of his physical abilities and because of what he's shown his first year. So even though his play was costing this team in a big way, particularly in the confidnce area, people still have HOPE for Henne. I'm quickly running short on my supply of Henne HOPE.

Thigpen on the other hand suffers the opposite problem, no body feels themselves swell up with HOPE when he's on the field. He's not big. Doesn't have a cannon. Isn't a supremely gifted runner, etc. etc. He doesn't wow you when you watch him play. BUT, he does play well with what he has. He kind of reminds me of Doug Flutie. Nobody wanted the guy as their "franchise" guy because he just didn't look the part. If Flutie has been 6-4 he'd have been everybody's favorite. But he wasn't either. Thigpen is sort of in the same boat. He played very well in KC, particularly when they played us in 2008 and we eked out a win in that frozen tundra weather. And yet he was available for a 5th rounder. Good move by us. Then and now. I don't know if Thigpen will turn into the next Phoenix story like Kurt Warner, but I know he'll give us solid play for the next 7 games. I know he's not afraid to throw the ball deep. I know he's going to be emotional and give this team a spark when it needs it most. And from what I've seen of him so far in his career (all of it), his play on the field gives this team and all of its players enough reason to have HOPE that the season isn't shot just yet.

 

If it's a dislocated kneecap, I can tell you from multiple painful personal experience, he won't be ready for a while, and even if you get him into a uniform and stick him into a pocket, that knee is going to be in the front of his mind and he'll be quick to go down/throw it away/etc. to avoid another hit. It's going to be weak physically, and it's going to show in his mind.

Aside from that Adam, I'm curious to know what you thought of his performance yesterday. Not his final line, but what you SAW in each of his drives. I'm sad to say I saw a Henne that was the same/worse in terms of his timid decision making. I found myself screaming at the TV that "for god's sake throw the ball down field". He seemed scared to me and I just coulnd't shake it. To make matters worse, my wife, who knows little about football, remarks while watching Henne "why won't he throw the ball sooner?"...."why doesn't he throw the ball where he gets more yards, seems like the other guy (Thigpen) does without any problem?". If a non-football fan can see what I've been fearing, and we've discussed ad nauseum on this forum, it must be pretty blatant, and if DolFans dont' see it, it's because their glasses are just too tinted.

 

I really felt good about all 3 QBs we had on this roster. There is something that each one brings that helps this team win. Rather than looking for that franchise QB that will be ours for 10-15 years, I just want one to lead us to the playoffs this year.

 

One thing is for sure, you can fault this regime with a lot of things they do boneheaded things on. But they bring in people who want to play football, and want to prove themselves.

As for the title of this post, I support Henne, Pennington, Thigpen, or whoever the named player is for the week. You could march Tom Brady out in a Dolphins Jersey, and I'll root for him too in between trips to the bathroom to throw up.

That being said, I think the reason a lot of people want to still see Henne is exactly what you described, hope. He's been named the heir apparent, has shown he can play very good/borderline elite at times. But he's not consistent, and the excuse of him being young and not having enough starts won't last much longer (for some its already lasted too long). I for one would like to see him get the job back and give it one more go next season. But I also have a higher tolerance for pain than most

 

I don't know if "great" is the proper adjective. Until Henne connected on that flea flicker, he was getting real close to losing this team altogether, and I'm still not sure he hasn't already. Until that play, we were utterly toothless. And even with that play we only netted a FG where a well thrown ball would have been a TD without question as Hartline had four or five steps on the safety. Let's take a look at how drives ended where Henne had anything to do with it whatsoever (not counting the first drive; that was more Penny's drive and Ronny just fnished it off after a fumble gave us great field position):

Possession 2: 3 & out
Possession 3: 3 & out
Possession 4: 3 & out
Possession 5: FG (this after a 54 yard flea flicker)
Possession 6: 3 & out
Possession 7: Interception (poorly thrown ball by Henne to Marshall; should have led him over the middle)
Possession 8: FG (Henne had some nice throws on this drive; looked very, very good...until he hit the red zone)
Possession 9: TD (this was after the VY fumble; 2 play drive; good pass by Henne; great effort by Cobbs)
Possession 10: Henne leaves game

In total: That's 8 drives, 4 3&outs, 1xInt, 2 FGs and 1xTD

I wouldn't say this was a "great" effort for any QB, don't care who he is.

 

many around here still support a Dan Marino comeback with more validity than Henne as starting QB. get over it

 

I don't know if you could say that drive was all Pennington. Henne converted a 3rd and 11 on a nice check down to Polite.

 

Get out. No seriously, Get out. You don't make any sense. You post nothing of value. All you do is post conjecture all the day long, pretend like your opinion is the word of God and act as if you're some oracle. Get a clue. Now where are my points?

 

Polite was standing still...staring straight at Henne...Henne threw the ball about 5 yards...that doesn't qualify as a quality check down. That qualifies as Polite was the only guy Henne was willing to throw the ball to and Polite made the play from there.

Having said that, I'm not trying to take away from Henne's stats, because all QB have there share of yards/TDs in their favor that were due to another playe'rs actions. But the point I was aiming for was to isolate the drives where Henne was responsible for driving the team down the field for points. I didn't count that first possession because quite honestly we started with excellent field position, Pennington's beautiful pass in stride to Hartline for 20 yards set up the score, and Henne's only contribution was a dump off to a FB standing right in front of him. The second TD we had Henne at least contributed with a nice pass to Cobbs. Just keeping things in perspective.

 

I didn't see the play but was Polite the only open player? I can imagine he was against the Tennessee secondary. And, for some reason you guys hate Henne's checkdowns but you're so biased that when it scores you still can't give him credit for the throw. A checkdown to a fullback is a staple of redzone offense in the NFL. You are apparently so biased that you'll say that he only threw a 5 yard pass that Polite ran with when that's the point of the YAC stat. A QB has to read the D and figure out which pass could do the most damage. It's not even possible to you that he saw an open field behind Polite and said that's my best option? Geez.

 

Again, not knocking Henne for that play in particular, I just wasn't going to put that drive into the "pool" of drives being evaluated for Henne's day because he really had very little to contribute. I never said it was a pass Henne shouldn't be praised for, I just said that it was such a pedestrian play on Henne's part that I wasn't willing to throw that particular DRIVE into the pool for consideration. It wasn't HIS drive. Pennington started. Pennington got them to the 10. Henne dumped off to Polite who ran to the two, and Ronnie finished. ONE THROW DOESN'T MAKE A DRIVE, ESPEICIALLY NOT A DUMP OFF TO A FULL BACK. it's a matter of statistics more than anything else. Using that drive to represent Henne's day would be statistically incorrect as it just doesn't fit the population. If he had thrown zero passes on the drive and we got no points out of it, I wouldn't shoulder Henne with the responsibility for that either, because it wasn't his fault.

I don't hate Henne. I would love nothing more than for him to be our guy. That's the honest to God's truth! But, I've seen red flags over the last two to three weeks that have me seriously doubting his abilities to progress FURTHER than he already has. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Well, for me that dump off to polite is the problem in a nutshell, why is Polite catching the ball and not a Darren Sproiles type of back?

I did take notice that Cobbs is playing much better now than earlier in the season and Henne was money to him on that TD, but to me, Henne needs more of that and less of throwing to guys who are not going anywhere after they catch the ball.

 

Count me in too as a Henne supporter. I don't feel he and Henning are a good fit. We need an OC can make better use of hus talents.

 

Unfortunately, StLouis, I agree with you.

I held out a lot of Henne hope.

He may still become something, but my gut says "No" at this point. He just doesn;t have the mental swagger. Being stone-faced isn;t the same as being confident, apparently.

I just don;t see the intangibles he will need to be a consistent, great starter. He will always flatter to deceive us, playing with flashes of greatness, but lots of mediocrity, hesitancy and so on.

I HOPED he'd become more, and he still may, but if I were asked to bet my pile of money on Chad Henne at this point, I would refuse to do so. how many here would honestly place a month's wages on this man becoming a Pro Bowl QB? To me, it's a longshot barring a miraculous life-change for the boy.

 

It's clear as day you don't keep things in perspective...look at the way you describe Pennington's pass to Henne's. One is a beautiful pass in stride, the other a dump off to a guy standing in front of him. That was a great pass from Pennington, especially considering his shoulder was out of place or whatever happened.

I was a supporter of the Pennington move, so this isn't coming from a guy who is all hyped up on Henne. He made the correct play and doing so allowed Polite to run ahead and the get the 1st down. He was WIDE open. It was the correct read and throw--and because of it, we scored a TD. I think Henne should be given credit for some of that.

 

Great thing is Bpk, there is plenty of time. Also, Thigpen can only drive up more competition. Sometimes it takes years for QBs light to go on, or different schemes, etc. I still have great hope for Henne and Thigpen. I think we've got two good ones.

 

SO henne makes a check down pass that goes for a first down and doesn't get any credit for it
but when Flacco...or ANY OTHER QB does a check down to the RB/FB open underneath they are praised for it for making a smart play

some of you guys hate Henne so much that your logic is being exposed

 

i think there is no doubt that he is still unsure at times in what he's seeing. But I will say that he did attack downfield a little more. not a huge aerial assault by any means but he made some plays downfield and more importantly he was looking downfield more than in games past. I think he took the right message from his benching and realized he's gotta open it up. Its going to take him some time though to do it comfortably. he's not there yet. I think he still has flaws. He needs to speed up his reads. He has to get more certain of what he's seeing since he still gets confused at times. He still is going to have work on beating zone coverage and work on his red zone passing. His deep accuracy did alright yesterday but he's going to have to improve the consistentency. His short passes arent pinpoint. would like to see him lead a little more. to me he's not a pinpoint passer though, he's more of a guy that gets it in a general area. Kurt Warner or Peyton Manning he isnt. More like Big Ben.

But the main thing to me is I dont see any reason to think he's plateaued yet. He's improved in alot of areas from last season and he's even improved on some areas this season so I dont see any reason to suspect that he wont keep improving next season. Next year he definitely has to be more of a complete QB however. This season he seems to me to be on the path to that. We will see. But I dont think you'll really know till next season what we have. For his second year starting I would give him a B-. The grade snt reflective of his current ability but rather where I expect 2nd yr QBs to be