Don't tell that to Favre, Montana, or Young. None of them were pure pocket passers. Look, all I am saying is that we either have to get a QB taught to move a little or have an offense with enough deception that keeps the LB's out of coverage. Maybe they could keep a RB in the backfield to double as a blocker / trouble receiver? Maybe they could do shovel passes? Anything to keep the S's and LB's from being so deep in coverage when the realize we are not running the ball. With the talent on this team we should be scoring 30+ each game and we are not because our offense is too slow and obvious. A little speed and deception work wonders. read on.. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/503410-dolphins-offense-lacking-speed
To a point I understand where you are coming from. I don't think that the type of QB makes or breaks the team as much as the team around them does, and I think you just said the same thing. Henne is OK but needs to get his "Sea Legs" this year, but Henning is totally out of whack with the type of offense he has Chad running. You mentioned many possible solutions to the problem that would all work; in fact Shula used them in the past to elevate the one dimensional issue that Marino had in his last years, but ultimately the fix needs to come from Henning and really no where else. I have noticed how slow and boring our offense has been prior to the Pittsburgh game and it seemed to be missing a spark. It is really a testimony to Henne that he had thrown the ball as well as he has with the coverage problems that you mentioned. One dimensional offenses typically struggle in the red zone and that's where we are having our troubles as well. Sometimes to run a good red zone offense you need to have a QB that can excel on broken plays. We might be a little ways off with Henne, but by the end of the season he'll be there. Football is a game of inches (....and patience), that's frustrating as hell for people who need to win OMG RIGHT NOW!! but building this offense fully may take a little more time than we expected.
Marino was hard to sack because of his quick release, not his footwork, and my comments were made regarding the end of his career which would be after his Achilles injury. After that injury Marino went flat footed and threw more interceptions, that is my point. I used that reference because we look very flatfooted and slow in this offense. My intention was not to bash on Marino at all. I was just using him as an example. Henne has got to be lighter on his feet and Henning has to draw some plays that will give this kid a chance in the redzone.
Come on man. 2 points per game from the entire RB corp is a much bigger concern to me than the play of Henne.
Just to settle this argument once and for all; Marino was more interception prone than other QB’s of his era and length of career, he couldn’t out run a duck and he was very flat footed in the pocket and when you can't flush the pocket you throw INT's. Marino was indeed a great QB but there is an obviuos correlation between QB mobility and superbowl wins. Many pocket passers win the big game but they at least have the ability to move if they have to. Someone had better start teaching Henne to move out of the pocket asap or we are in for a long, disappointing ride. Joe Montana 15 years active 139 career INT’s 1676 yards rushing 20 TD’s rushing won 4 super bowls http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MontJo01.htm Steve Young 15 years active 107 career INT’s 4239 yards rushing 43 TD’s rushing won 3 super bowls http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00.htm?redir Dan Marino 16 years active 252 career INT’s 87 yards rushing 9 TD’s rushing won 0 super bowls http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MariDa00.htm
I agree, but they are connected. When a QB takes a little longer with slower feet getting the ball to the back, he can't get to the hole while it is fully open and it begins to close. When it begins to close its tougher to get big gains. This is a factor but not in every game, it depends on defensive skill too. The NFL has an old rule; its called the 2 second - 4 second rule. In 2 seconds the RB needs to be in the hole and in 4 seconds the pass needs to be in the air. We are much slower than the standard set by NFL coaches. We need to work on ball mechanics, agility and speed to improve. Henne is a great young QB but someone needs to work with him on his footwork. If I sound like a coach, it's because I am. (not in the NFL obviously)
Or another target to get the safeties out of range, because we don't have that. When you run the ball and keep the pass short, the safeties serve two roles. It takes longer for the receivers to get open underneath in the 10-20 yard range. Open it up with a burner, it may change. Try Wallace at least.
Interesting theory. Last year the RB corps scored 23 TDs and this year they have 2 after 6 games. So you're saying Henne has slowed down so much this year, even though his stats are way better than last year, he is affecting the running game in a negative way. Can't wait.
A part of that is Chad Henne is singularly bad at executing play action passes. If anything I think you have who is doing what reversed, Ricky Williams is hitting the hole in 2 seconds, possibly in even less time, Ronnie Brown, is not, RB has reverted to his pre 07 form. Henne has the ball in the air typically much faster than 4 seconds, too fast imho as he is not seeing the whole field as he just wants the ball out of his hand. 3 Receivers in a pattern, he glances at the one downfield, if they are not wide open, he hits the checkdown that is a part of the reason why he has not been sacked very often this year, aside from the Bills game, Henne has been relatively clean most of the year,.
you have no idea what you are talking about. I won't regurgitate the counter arguments that have already been stated, but they all show how absurd this statement is.
your mistake here is comparing two QBs entrenched in a west coast offense, consisting of mostly short passes. you need to look beyond the stats, understand the context. Marino might have been slow, but he had excellent footwork in the pocket and was not flat footed at all. I think you must be focusing on his last few years when his legs were robotic. [EDIT] I just saw your comment that you were pointing towards the end of his career, so strike my last point
I guess the writer forgot about the Offensive output of 31 points against the Bills last year... Henne's first game as a starter... Kind of stop to analize the story after that... not well covered with facts... and the writer seems to try and shove a point without basis, as to what style of Offense the Phins are running...
Marino had great footwork in the pocket and great awareness in the pocket. I'm not sure what you were watching. Yes he also had a quick release.
Some sillyness in this thread. The NFL named Marino one of the top 10 most mobile QBs ever for a reason. http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story...emplate=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d801f9781
Also, Marino blew out his Achilles in 93 and limped around for the rest of his career. (4k+ yards, 30 TDs, with a 2.8 INT% in 94 the year after his worst leg injury) As stated previously in this thread it was his shoulder that did him in.
Soooooo, you're theory is that QBs with good scrambling ability are not only favored in the modern game but they hold the key to the promised land? Vick: Best QB scrambler in the history of the game IMO: 0 SBs Cunningham: Second best QB scrambler in the history of the game: 0 SBs Steve Young: OK, I'll give you that one: 1 SB (two more as backup) Culpepper: Good scrambler pre injury: 0 SBs McNabb: Good scrambler/play creator: 0 SBs Doug Flutie: Great scrambler: 0 SBs Vince Young: Great scrambler: 0 SBs Do I need to continue? On the other hand, let's look at the statues: Brady: Rarely leaves the pocket: 3 SBs P. Manning: Slow as molasses running uphill in January: 1 SB E. Manning: Ditto: 1 SB Rothlisberger: True keeps plays alive but doesn't attack the LBs like you suggest: 2 SBs Warner: What, 50 yards rushing in career?: 1 SB Aikman: Quintessential pocket passer: 3 SB Montana: Nifty feet kept plays alive but again never attacked the LBs: 4 SBs I think you get the point: Let's see that's....two...carry the one....15 SB victories for "statues" and 1 SB for QBs who are capable of attacking the LBs with their feet enough so that they can't "sit back in the hole" waiting for RBs. Case closed.
