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Chad Henne's Downfield Passing Game: An Objective Analysis

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by shouright, Oct 26, 2010.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The coaches disagree with you.
     
  2. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    I think this is one of the most well thought out and best written posts I've read on this forum in quite some time. Kudos to you shouright! :up:

    I think your data and analysis support the argument that Sparano & Henning are playing smallball. They have Henne on a short leash. Question is...is it warranted? Has he developed to the point where they can confidently take the leash off? Or, at the very least...give him more slack? But, there is more to it IMO. There always is.

    First, how about this running game? I watched the last quarter of the Phins/Squeelers game last night, and using my DVR (in super slow motion) I broke down several plays. Now, I can't cite down and distance, but I saw at least 2-3 running plays where there was a huge whole, and in each instance the RB (both RW & RB) simply ran between the tackles, instead of bouncing it outside (or running where there was more green field). Why? Is it because they're so disciplined they only run where the play is designed to go? Or, do they lack better vision and decision making? Or, do they not possess the speed to run to the perimeter? I don't know, I'm asking. Regardless, I see a real problem with the running game. And, the more I see, the more I see a problem with the backs, not the O-line.

    Defensively, this is a much improved unit, as compared to last year IMO. But, it's no Pittsburgh/Ravens/Jests. Not yet. The run D is pretty stout (which is a testament to the front seven). But, pass D is still a liability. Could it be that Sparano thinks his team cannot afford to make any mistakes offensively in order to have a chance to win?

    And, I won't even get into special teams play. We've all seen it. We all know how bad it is. Has it gotten better? Some. But, giving up 48 yards on a kickoff return with a one point lead, late, against a team with the offensive capabilities of Pittsburgh is, well...it's just bad. You simply cannot give that kind of field position to your opponent with the game on the line.

    OK, so back to Henne. Fact is Henne is still developing, so he's gonna make mistakes. Are we willing to live and die with Henne at the helm, learning as he goes? I am. I think the reward is worth the risk. And, the notion that Pennington could have played any better is simply preposterous IMHO. There are throws he just cannot make anymore. Besides, his role is pretty clearly defined, by his own admission. He is here to mentor Henne, and is an insurance policy. Period. He is not our salvation sitting on the bench. Moreover, and more importantly...he is not the future of the position. And, for a coaching staff that is as concerned with playing mistake free football offensively, Thigpen is not an option either. He's wildly inconsistent throwing the ball. Hell, I don't think he even knows where the ball is going when it leaves his hand.

    Bottom line, IMO we've gotta see what we have, both in Henne and in this team the rest of the way, so we know what pieces we still need to be a contender. So, Mr. Sparano, please tell Mr. Henning to please open up the play book this weekend against the Bungles. It's time. It's time to take some shots, and it's time to see what we've got.

    Just one man's humble opinion.

    Go Phins! :marble:
     
  3. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wait... the SuperBowl is still a possibility in 2010?

    But you told us here: http://forums.thephins.com/showpost.php?p=1301058&postcount=18 That the season is over, and we won't contend?

    Bro, I used to find your posts interesting and of value, lately... I'm not so sure what on earth you are even thinking or trying to tell us.

    To think Pennington, or Thigpen are the future of this team, or even the future of the rest of this season is just completely offbase. We are not loosing games right now because of Chad Henne. Its poor execution as a whole. I'll agree with you slightly if you want to put the blame on Sparano, because failed execution should and may have something to do with coaching, but things are nowhere near as bad to go there yet. So I'm not going to. I think ya need to just chill out, relax and see how things play out.

    We have one of the younger rosters in the league. This team is going to be dangerous when these players all develop and become even better, you have to be patient in getting there. I'm sorry if you had visions of contending this year. Of course we'd all like to contend for the superbowl every year, however that doesn't happen. By year 3 in a turnaround as epic as ours has to be after finishing 1 and 15 you'd like to see progress for sure, and progress to getting to that next level. We've by far seen that in this team. Every position is vastly improved from what it was, although the jury may still be out in the defensive secondary. Its pretty damn tough to contend for a superbowl title 3 years removed from almost going winless.

    Relax, take a deep breath and remove your own head from the sand. This team is vastly improved, has a core of young players and is going in the right direction. Rome wasnt built overnight ya know.
     
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  4. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Penny is NOT the answer....... unless the question is "Who was the most overrated QB of 2008?"
     
  5. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    The "sand"? I beg to differ on the location. :shifty:
     
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  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    coaches use film
     
  7. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    You're damn right I used the playoff game. It was 1 of 3 games (all losses) played vs a team that actually made the playoffs.

    "Inflated stats" my a$$!! That playoff loss means a hell of a lot more than bull$#!t victories over a 2-14 Chiefs, 2-14 Rams, 4-12 Seahawks, or 5-11 Raiders.

    You're such a Penny homer it's astonishing. Say hello to the poster of him above your bed for me will ya. :tongue2:
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    So do I.

    Hence my saying that the Dolphins have faced more Cover 2 in six games than they probably faced all of last year.

    And you disagreeing with that.

    And the coaches disagreeing with your disagreement.
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I was actually agreeing with you.
     
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  10. madeinmiami2010

    madeinmiami2010 New Member

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    Yet another Chad Henne thread.

    Jesus Christ dont you guys ever get tired of talking about the guy?

    Geez. So many pages cant even read em all till I get tired of it

    To me you guys just keep saying the same thing over and over

    Same ****, different thread,

    There should be a Henne thread where all henne discussion falls under, cuz this is just too much
     
  11. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    Take it from a guy who watched Pennington his whole career. I love the guy. Heart of a lion. But before the had his shoulder mangled 3 or 4 times, he had a hard time against big time defenses (Pitt, NE, Oak back in the day). He became very easy to defend after all those sugeries. He just doesn't have the arm strength to challange a good passing defense. Did you not see what happened to him against Baltimore 2 years ago?

    If your goal is to make it to the playoffs and get blasted by the first decent defense you face, then maybe Pennington is the way to go. But if you want any shot of doing something in the playoffs, Henne is the better choice. I can't comment on Thigpen, as I really haven't seen him play much.
     
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  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm dumb.
     
  13. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The first two words of the thread title are "Chad" and "Henne's", you were expecting this thread to be about what when you clicked it open?
     
  14. madeinmiami2010

    madeinmiami2010 New Member

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    SooooooooooooooooWow. everybody thinks they are a professional analyst on this forum. He's done well. He can run the offense. Alot of his failures fall on playcalling, and tight coverages because nobody is stretching field. It would also help if R&R get it going. You know what they say, a great ground game is a struggling quarterbacks best friend. As soon as Mcquistan is out, Jerry's in, the run game should be functioning better to take less responsibilty off henne.

    Henning is a failure. For some reason he thinks we are a finesse passing team, and calls the plays accordingly. Dolphins look like power running team to me. And run LEFT goddammit incog & long open massive holes, but they keep trying to run behind PAT FREAKIN MCQUISTAN and Carey
     
  15. madeinmiami2010

    madeinmiami2010 New Member

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    Lol obviously I know its about Henne.

    Im just saying it seems there is a new thread on him like every other day. And in all of these different threads, everybody just keeps on repeating themselves.
     
  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's right, that's what we do here, we analyze, and we try to figure out our team's direction and find the best way to achieve our goals..If you don't like long thread's of analysis then take your *** somewhere else where your lack of it, fit's in.
     
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  17. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    maybe he hoped it was about cupcakes. Everyone loves cupcakes
     
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  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Chad Henne cupcakes? Ewwwwwwwwwwww.
     
  19. madeinmiami2010

    madeinmiami2010 New Member

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    No. Its just that most (not all) of the analysis here is mediocre speculation at best.
     
  20. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    agree about pennington. one of the most overrated QBs and that was when he was in his prime. couldnt beat a good defense to save his life. he's very savvy though and a great mentor for henne.

    as to thigpen he's like the tasmanian devil on cocaine and amphetamines. the ball moves when he's in the game. you just dont know if its going to be a touchdown or an interecption with him. way too inconsistent and turnover prone to rely on. a brett favre or tony romo type of project where you hope someday the light goes on for him and he learns how to keep the ball away from the opposing defense
     
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  21. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    I like cupcakes. I especially like those little sprinkly things they sometimes put on them. :yes:
     
  22. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    A. Thank you Bickety!! :knucks: A quality voice of reason..... and from someone who knows Penny much better than we do.
    We can't take his 2008 11-5 record and Divisional title at face value in this circumstance..... and people are so quick to ignore his 0-3 start last season as well as the ridiculously beneficial schedule he faced.

    B. There's a reason you haven't seen Thiggy play much, and that's b/c he's entirely too inconsistent to be starter material right now, and it's unknown if he ever will be (although he has some nice tools and looks good against 2nd and 3rd string defenses).
     
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  23. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    Henne is doing fine and will be our QB for the foreseeable future ....

    he is transforming from being a 'thrower' to a passer -- and he is coming along just fine.

    would i love to see him throwing downfield some more .... sure .... just like i would like to see us not be in 3d and long so often ...

    i just don't see anything to gain by putting in CP .... i would like to find a way to deal him to the 'BOYS somehow and get some return on him.
     
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  24. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    We need 2 OC's if we're keeping Henning. Dan can stay to call the plays when we're trailing a game until we reach the redzone. Someone else needs to take over when we're ahead, tied, or in the redzone.

    How about this? Let's move Carey to LG and run behind him and Jake with Jerry at RG..... and since we barely use our TE in the passing game, we can put Fasano on the weakside to aid whomever is at RT. (Dumb idea but just thinking aloud.)

    Otherwise, I hope we go after Carl Nicks since we've dumped 2 big Oline contracts in Smiley and Grove.
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    child please..you aint brought sh#@ to the table...
     
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  26. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    And what exactly have you provided of any value?
     
  27. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    hello/goodbye:
    I can't guarantee Pennington will make the difference. I can, however, guarantee you Henne hasn't made the difference.
    I can tell you Pennington is better suited for this offense & is a superior QB to Henne in every aspect of the game, with the lone exception of the seldom used & much over-rated deep pass. yes, RoboArm can throw the ball further down field than Pennington but Pennington is hands down the better passer & QB. the only thing keeping Pennington out of the game is an incompetent coach.
    only makes sense to give the better QB a shot @ the start while the season is still salvageable.
    insist, protest, excuse, blame whoever, whatever but the bottom line is Henne isn't getting it done & its time for change.
    got no more to say on the subject. you girls enjoy the thread. I'm through with this one.

    GoFish!:dolphin:
     
  28. MarinePhinFan

    MarinePhinFan Banned

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    Horrible...just a horrible post.

    If Henne has been our only QB how can you "guarantee" he hasn't been the difference? If you look at all the objective facts he has been playing very well this season.

    The real facts are, you're clueless and haven't written one legitimate, objective, helpful, insightful, or intelligent post on this subject.
     
  29. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Friend MarinePhinFan:
    what part did you not understand?
    nothing complicated here, everything very straight forward & correct...


    hello/goodbye:
    I can't guarantee Pennington will make the difference. I can, however guarantee you Henne hasn't made the difference.
    I can tell you Pennington is better suited for this offense & is a superior QB to Henne in every aspect of the game, with the lone exception of the seldom used & much over-rated deep pass. yes, RoboArm can throw the ball further down field than Pennington but Pennington is hands down the better passer & QB. the only thing keeping Pennington out of the game is an incompetent coach.
    only makes sense to give the better QB a shot @ the start while the season is still salvageable.
    insist, protest, excuse, blame whoever, whatever but the bottom line is Henne isn't getting it done & its time for change.
    got no more to say on the subject. you girls enjoy the thread. I'm through with this one.

    GoFish!:dolphin:
    the repeat is a courtesy to you. hope you get it this time. as for me, like I said: I'm through with the thread, I have nothing more to post on the subject
     
  30. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Davie
    You're acting like Henne is Derek Anderson or Matt Leinart. You don't bench a guy whose playing well.
     
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  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    23rd...you makin me laugh man...

    The man has conviction about his choice, that's all there is too it.. he might have a point...I just think we have to let Henne develope this year so we can project where his ceiling is during the offseason.

    Henne's QBR is at 87 at this point...pretty good while he's developing presence in the pocket....

    I believe he had some breakthrough's during the steeler game in terms of not panicking after his first read wasn't available..To know that he still has time and that he trusts his line and himself to go to his 2nd and 3rd read was big for his development.
     
  32. hugoguzman

    hugoguzman New Member

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    You make some good points overall, but it's hard to give your fourth point any credibility considering that Henne is top 3 in the NFL in terms of converting on third down.
     
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  33. hugoguzman

    hugoguzman New Member

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    Thank goodness.
     
  34. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    :amen:
     
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  35. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Well let's see.....If you're not completely satisfied, guess we could refund every penny you spent on our analysis and you can try taking your business elsewhere...... let us know, we're here to make you happy.
     
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  36. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well... I hoped you would have read what I was saying to you earlier in this thread. However, it appears that wasnt the case.

    I don't know what it is that you dont understand. I dont know why it is you dont like Henne, you give no reasons ever. Just little one liners.

    Pennington or Thigpen is not the answer. Neither one of them at this point in their careers are nothing but back up QB's. Pennington soon to retire and become a coach. You can't bench your young QB who you are trying to develop when he's playing well. Just because the team isnt winning every week, does not mean your QB isn't playing well. Sparano isn't keeping Pennington out of the game, Pennington's weak shoulder, and Pennington's acceptance of him being brought here as a back-up only to play if Henne was to fail, and Pennington's value as a knowledgeable mentor are the things keeping him out of the game. That and the fact we have a coach, and a GM, and an entire staff really that is smart enough to not bench a guy playing well, who is developing, and who clearly see's the big picture where you fail to. A QB with a 95 or so rating, good yardage totals, good completion percentage, way more TD's then INT's IS playing well. Whether you want to like it or not. It is, what it is at this point, and it's not the main reason we are loosing games.

    After reading this one from ya though... I can't take anymore. Never thought I'd say this around here... I'll consider it more... but I fear its time...

    Iggyville... Population... 1
     
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  37. Phinatic425

    Phinatic425 MIA State of Mind

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    :lol: You are the one using pink text!!
     
  38. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Don't believe I am being impatient. Does the guy have it or not? We have now been evaluating him for almost an entire season. I say he will be mediocre at best. So if the intent is to field the best QB/player you can and the goal is to win a championship, the search continues. I am not saying don't continue to allow him to develop. I am saying I know this fan base and his days are numbered lest something big begin to happen.

    The goal is to win the superbowl....you seem complacent with maybe second place in the division, while shrugging your shoulders and blaming the reason we are second on we are developing our QB. Been hearing the same stuff for a long time. I want to matter now. I want to win a super bowl now. I been waiting 37 years, since I was 4, and yea man I'm tired.
     
  39. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    :sidelol:

    I love how he doesn't EVER respond to posts that have real insight and facts/stats etc in them...... but rather uses the lame, repetitive "Penny's better b/c I say so" argument and expects credibility for it. :lol:
     
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  40. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    well Socks my friend, to be honest, you're gonna wait another 37 years if you're not patient enough for a young franchise QB to develop. Henne's not at fault for any of our losses; he should be 5-1 based on his performance.

    We've spent the past 10 years sifting through weak veterans, and we've yet to actually take the time to develop a QB, so I'm not sure if you just don't realize how long it takes to develop a young QB into a premium NFL player. If you look around the league, you'll see that virtually every top QB took a few years of starting to achieve full potential. Henne is far from a waste of time like that bum, Beck.

    We either let Henne continue to develop (which he is doing) or we keep hoping that some random washed up veteran (or QB with injury problems) turns his career around. Teams lock up talented QBs for a LONG time, so it's unrealistic to think we'll find anyone of value who's career isn't on the decline.

    Henne's probably one of the top 3 QBs drafted over the past 5 or 6 seasons, and he's proving so on the field compared to them. I guarantee you there are teams who would happily give us at least a 1st and 3rd round pick for Chad b/c he's a franchise QB. We can either endure Henne's growing pains and then bask in his awesomeness for 8-10 year or so..... or we could have a roller coaster at QB with lots of ups and downs for the next 12 years (mostly downs b/c what you're suggesting is exactly the mindset that the Dolphins had for the 7 years prior to drafting Beck). I hope you don't want history to repeat itself. Look at all the SB teams...... very few of them won it on the back of an average veteran QB. However, the most SB wins came from teams who drafted and developed a talented QB while enduring his growing pains early on in order to reap the full reward.

    Patience is warranted in this case. If it were Beck 2.0, I'd be looking for any vet to lead us while drafting a new QB to replace him.
     

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