All I am saying is wait till you see a real game before you jump in someones ***. When you really have something to piss and moan about then fine let it out. BTW we don't even know if WA will come back healthy so all you are doing is speculating which holds no water. I need something real before I would say he replaces Smith. So far nothing.
what do you expect Friend Killerphins? this is a Dolphin Forum & most people are concerned about the season the games are played one @ a time, Buffalo is up next a victory would be a step in the right direction we need the Quick Start' to contend this year, game one is important having said that game four is the crucible. lets see what the fix looks like...
That's perfectly fine, and I'm willing to do that. I agree with W Allen possibly never being the same again. We'll see. I feel like I'm one of the more level-headed fans which is why I kind of took offense to being labeled a SS-hater. Maybe I come off like that, but I'm not. More concerned in reality. And I always try to backup my concerns with valid reasoning.
THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!! You guys need to take it easy. I think it will all be okay once a gameplan is put in place. Even Smith and Clemons.
Completely agree, KP. First of all he IS a 2nd year corner that played CB what, 2 years in college? It's preseason and we have been playing extremely vanilla defense. Also the fact that we have been playing vanilla on D has had a lot to do with the lack of pass rush; which obviously directly effects secondary play. Lets wait a few weeks into the regular season (at least) before we start crucifying an incredibly young secondary. And yes, every CB gets burned, even the IMMORTAL REVIS. (T. GINN LOL)
spin it as you will; it is what it is & nothing more: with twenty-three bottles of beer changes a bleak spectrum to cheer not much in Buffalo to fear just kick back, have another beer game four will be the crucible... we play one game @ a time this my last post on the subject. got no more to contribute to the thread. hope you have enjoyed it.
Fiedler doesn't belong in the same sentence as Beck and Ginn. Fiedler played hard, and did the most with what he had, physically speaking.
Damn right Fiedler gave us more wins than any qb post Marino. I loved Jay that dude was a fighter. Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
KP...I spilled spot remover on my dog and now he's gone. This preseason did look bad. SS didn't show any improvement from last year. I think it's funny how people say we played a vanilla defense and that's why he looked bad. That arguement can work for the front seven, but not the CBs. They are always against the WR. Getting beat by a WR who is 5 yards behind you is not caused by a vanilla defense.
Smith played a better CB last year than Davis, so should Davis be benched? We have no idea what they are doing, maybe Nolan is trying different coverages to see what works, who know's? The Lions went 4-0 in preseason than 0-16 in the regular season. I'm not worried right now, but you can ask me again after two regular season games.
IMO these fixes are a horrible idea. Thomas has looked poor on offense. He's a bubble player who may not make the team. I see no logic in starting him over a player who has completely outplayed him all preseason. Benching or not benching Henne would depend on how he played, not the record. If he played great but or defense was losing games then benching Henne would be a ridiculous fix. Smith has struggled playing in Nolan's zone. He played better than Davis last year primarily in man to man. I don't know which they'll use more this year. IIRC Nolan tended to favor man in Denver. The part most fans don't see is that Davis was targeted more than Smith last season. IMO that's b/c Smith does a better job getting his hands on the receiver early and taking him out of the play. Unfortunately when he misses the fans see him beat by a lot. That also is part of the reason he struggles more with zone. I think you need more information before you advocate that fix, like what defenses you will be using and tape of the plays that weren't on tv.
I still dont buy that Smith played better than Davis last year. They had Davis on the #1 receiver most of the year no? Ofcourse teams are gonna target the rook on their #1 receiver. If you are saying Smith is more aggressive at the line than Davis please show me. I havent seen anything from Smith other than a few (really nice) int's during preseason games. Im not saying Smith is horrible. I dont know why people feel the need to critique Davis vs. Smith when thats not even the arguement. Davis has shown a sh*t ton more than Smith, end of story. If our new defense (we havent seen) happens to fit Smith better so be it. GOOD! Right now hes getting beat. I feel like sometimes all these articles people read, interviews people listen to, or knowledge of said players background etc etc cloud the judgment of whats going on....Smith being beat. EDIT: I dont mean to solo you out Raf, happened to fit my point.
Partially because Davis can follow a WR anywhere he lines up. Smith can't, so it's easier to move someone away from Smith. Hence another reason why Davis coulda been targeted more.
Actually, Davis wasn't always on the #1 WR. Everybody remembers Davis on Moss but they forget that it was Smith on Andre Johnson and that he limited him to 2 catches for 39 yards. Smith also had one PBU on Johnson in that game. The only success that Johnson had that game was when they put him in the slot against Nate Jones. That game kind of highlights my point. Johnson is unquestionably the #1 WR in Houston yet he was targeted relatively little when Smith was covering him.
Neither Davis or Smith play in the slot. They are both boundary CBs at this point. IMO Davis has greater ability to one day play in the slot but they don't have him follow the receiver when he goes in the slot. At least they haven't yet.
I see your point, but I didnt say always. There are always exceptions, and strategy to who matches up better with a specific player to keep in mind. That was one game. I just dont see the "special qualities" in Smith other than his size and length, and ability to catch the ball. Honest question tho....Why do you feel the need to stick up for S. Smith and at the same time try to knock Davis down a notch? I'm pretty sure i've seen you do it before. No flames intended...
Yeah, but that's the only game where he matched up vs a number one, and he had plenty of safety help, so it wasn't like he was one one one. Sean got roasted all year long, plain and simple. He didn't make any plays, he sucked in run support, he has no business being mentioned in the same breath as Vontae Davis at this point. VD made plays, he gave up a lot of plays, but he dished out as much as he took. He had INTs vs Lee Evans, and Randy Moss (twice). He had big hits, a couple forced fumbles, was great in run support, saved a TD on kick coverage vs Nawlins, and was generally good on special teams. His TDs allowed were to Moss twice, Steve Smith, T.O., Kenny Britt and Nate Washington. Meanwhile Sean is getting roasted by the likes of Maurice Stovall and Sam Aiken, with 0 INTs, 0 big hits, 0 FF, 0 special teams play. Sean was the beneficiary of alot of bad passes as well, passes that would've gone for long TDs had they been on target. Two vs Steve Smith in Carolina, 2 more in the opener vs Roddy White. In fact, White burned him on the same out and up move this preseason as he did in Week 1 last year. I don't mean to dump on the guy, but on the field, he's closer to Jason Allen than he is to Vontae Davis or Will Allen.
Wow...quoting yourself ?? Friend 23rd, you are definitely a glass half empty sort... I know, I know...you don't have to answer...I'll guess " you are what you are ??" Right ?? LOL
Mostly b/c I see the praise and criticism as unbalanced. I really like the potential for both of these guys, but the fact of the matter is that Smith was the better CB last season. That seems to be ignored or just denied. And while Davis has clearly improved he's still getting beaten this preseason. In fact, he's probably been beaten about as much as Smith has. The fans just seem to give Davis a pass b/c he makes some more dynamic plays, even though Smith does have an INT this preseason. I see both of their futures as bright but they're not there yet.
There is no way that Davis dished out as much as he took. Davis on per play basis was the worst starting CB in the league. That's my issue with this. I love Davis' potential but to say that he was as good last year is just wrong.
I just don't see how you see that. The praise and criticism is unbalanced because the quality of player, or play, is unbalanced. How was SS the better CB? I dont get it. I like to look at games with my eyes, and to me its plain to see. I see VD making plays all over the field, and see SS giving up big plays. GMJohnson just put it plain and simple. Is Sean Smith one of your favorites or something? I can understand you disliking the "hate" but cmon...Im just trying to understand how you can say this stuff.
B/c you can't see everything with your eyes unless you have the coach's tape. You only see the CBs when they make a play or when they give up a play. All the times they cover their man so well that the QB throws the ball elsewhere you never get to see. Look at these numbers which CK had posted in a different thread: Sean Smith allowed 753 yards receiving to Vontae Davis' 835 yards receiving, according to PFF. But he was out in coverage 532 times compared with Davis' 387 times. That means that while Sean allowed 1.415 yards for every time he was out in coverage, Vontae allowed 2.158 yards for every time he was out in coverage. Will Allen allowed 0.772 yards for every coverage snap, Nate Jones allowed 1.073 yards and Jason Allen allowed 1.089 yards. New guy Benny Sapp allowed 1.072 yards for every coverage snap. These numbers give you a glimpse at what your eyes can't see.
I hate those break downs sorry. Who is our #1 CB the coaches have decided on? I knew some sort of super computer stats would pop u p. Id rather watch the games.
Benching Henne for Pennington for ANY reason would be an admission we are content with being average. Its Henne or bust. If he crashes and burns early, see if he can pick it up, learn and recover. If he just fails miserably all season, we should be in a good spot to draft a new QB in round 1. I think people are getting some big expectations, and rightfully so, but in reality this is probably not a contending team yet. We need a little bit of time to learn how to win as a team. Check out the Packers from the last few years and I could see us following a similar arc.
That's just ridiculous. You do realize that you're relying on something you can't see. When the coaches grade the players they grade every play. They don't just consider the plays where a ball is thrown in the CB's direction. That may be why Sparano himself said after the Atlanta game that the one thing Davis has been consistent at is run support. And I don't know that the coaches have decided on a #1 CB. Last year they went by match-ups.
Passing yards allowed per time in coverage is hardly a "super computer stat." It's freaking two numbers divided by each other. It's similar to YPA on offense. If you think that was any sort of "super computer stat" I'd suggest upgrading your abacus to at least a slide rule.
i just look back to the begining. davis was taken in round one. smith in the second, our 2nd 2nd. smith started from day one. vontae started when will allen went down. i think smith earned that starting role over davis and either im wrong, or a lot of people here dont recognize that. and smith did great last pre season. he had 2 or 3 picks i think. one was one handed in the endzone. but he didnt have any in the regular season. bottom line here, dont throw smith under a bus for getting beat on a LONG play in the final PRE season game. like some one else said, i think the big hits and interceptions get davis more favor because he is aggressive and those are crowd pleasing plays. i dont doubt for a second that fans would subconsiously prefer to see a big hit from davis after a 3 yard gain, over a soft wrap up and tackle from smith after a 2 yard gain.
Sorry to offend you and your abacus. BTW the tape between your glasses needs fixed...Didnt know Sean Smith was your favorite player. With any stat there are misconceptions, and stories left untold. You can probably find a stat to argue that Jason Allen is our best CB, or that Trent Dilfer was indeed the best QB ever. Like I said, i'd rather go by what I (and the coaches for the most part) have seen, rather than look at a bunch of nerd stats.
Sean Smith isn't close to my favorite player, Vontae Davis is my favorite player on defense (Ronnie is my favorite on the team). And I'm not sure how you can infer that the coaches are seeing the same thing as you, unless you know that Sean Smith won't be starting the season at CB. Nerd stats. I have to guess math is not even close to being your strong suit then. We'll try and use pictures next time, so that you can trust those precious eyes of yours.
We'll see how it pans out. I hope they both do well. I just dont like using stats like those to determine my opinions. I guess if I had to sum it up Sean Smith = Slow and somewhat steady. And Vontae = Somewhat reckless but makes game changing plays.
