I'm positive that was a Parcells pick, and I'm sure he regretted it the first time a ball dinged off his golf cart.
who would you of liked us to draft in the at slot. Or would you want us to trade down. Maybe swap picks with SD or GB. What I am saying is that this FO had a Bunch of people put in a bunch of hrs on scouting and playerpersonell. If they made this pick it was bc it was what they thought was best at the time. Just think Jamarcus Russell!!!
I think too many people get too caught up in the draft position of Pat White. Was he a stretch in the 2nd round? Yes. But there were other teams who were targeting him in the 2nd round. And if we wanted him that much, as we obviously did, we had to pull the trigger then. If the player doesn't pan out then that's one thing. But to blame White, or the FO for the position they drafted him, or to assume he would have been there in the 5th or gone undrafted as I've read in this thread is just inaccurate. This is why I say he was never given a real shot to show what he can do. They drafted Pat White, a highly decorated and talented college QB. A guy with a good arm and great footwork and mobility. And then they tried to change his footwork, change his release point, change all the mechanics that made him successful. Not only that, they changed the role he was brought in to fill halfway through the season last year. Pat White had a grand total of 5 pass attempts over the course of the season last year. He was brought in, in high pressure situations, cold off the bench and expected to make something happen. If you're developing White to be a pro-set QB, why would you pull your much more developed pro-set QB to put him in in a high pressure situation? The logic doesn't make sense. And that's where we run into trouble with the handling of Pat White. The coaches don't know from one day to the next what they want him to do in this offense. I think that some of you have hit the nail right on the head, that he lacks self confidence right now. But after they brought him in, changed the entire way he played the games, the gruesome injury he sustained last year, the impossible situations he was flung into, almost being set up to fail, and the constant berating of him, and the calling for him to be cut by both the fans and the media, can you blame him? He's a 2nd year 24 year old kid playing in the town where we expect our QBs to put up 4,000 yards and 48 TDs in their rookie year just cause one guy did it before. It's not fair to him. I'd also like to introduce this quote from Tony Sparano from 8/16/10 to whoever said that Pat White is being "all about me" not accepting a transfer from QB to another spot. “I’m not getting any closer to wanting to try him any place other than the (position) he’s in right now," Sparano said. "From my end, I’ve seen improvement in the last week out of Pat throwing the football. I have no other agenda other than to try to continue to develop this player as a quarterback on our team.” If the kid is going to get cut, he's going to get cut. There's nothing I can say to change that. And there's not much I can say to change anyone else's mind here. I know it's the cool thing to do to hate on Pat White, whatever. But (again reitterating that you can't hold the draft position against the player) you can't take a developmental player in the draft and then cry when he doesn't develop right away.
As I recall, going into the 2009 draft, we were in dire need of a game changer on O. The WC had dove very well for us but, had it's limitations in being able to throw the ball. I had many discussions, and debates, with fellow Phins Phans, and no one was able to come up with any threat on O better than Pat White. Yes, it was risky. Who was a better option at the time?
I'm one that stated I felt he was not willing to give wide receiver a try, and my reason for that is the tweet he referenced stating if he's going to be a wide receiver than he might as well play baseball. As far as Sparano stating that he's only going to be played as a qb right now. I think that is more of him protecting a player on his team like he has done in the past instead of adding more fuel to the fire that he is failing as a qb. I agree he was a developmental qb but from reading the practice reports he seems to be regressing instead of progressing. As far as him being put in a situation to fail last season. I don't agree with that and it seems they realy only had a small amount of plays that they asked Pat White to do because he was having accuracy issues and not learning the play book, and he failed out that. Just so you know I'm not a hater of Pat White, and honestly am a huge WV fan and enjoyed watching Pat White in college but I also think the size and speed of NFL players is going to make it extremely difficult for him to succeed in the NFL, and until he learns to pass with some accuracy than he will not be able to keep any NFL defense honest.
I have said that playing him as a quarterback would be a waste of time from the very beginning. He simply never had NFL quarterback ability. Yes, he was a highly decorated collegiate quarterback in a spread option system. It doesn't take very much film watching to see that he never had NFL quarterback ability though. Most of his passes at WVU were of the quick screen variety where his only responsibility was to get the ball out quickly to one of his receivers. He was rarely asked to read the field, go through his progressions, and make the decisions that a true pocket passing quarterback does. That offense at WVU was based around his running ability, not his passing ability. Pat White is yet another failed attempt to convert a run first quarterback into an NFL pro style passer. That conversion has never happened before, and it will never happen. Pat White simply never had the mental capability to be an NFL quarterback.
Great post. The man is barely a year from being drafted out of college. Look how long it took Rich Gannon to go from a joke to a great QB...
Pat White was playing with left handed footballs in college. His accuracy, and ability to throw as he was able to do is no longer valid. He just needs to adapt to a new football.
Well, I think it's more likely that he just doesn't have the skill set that translates to this level. If he had that, the talent would have sparked through once or twice. I just didn't see that happen for him. A good person, and a very likable kid, but something, at this level, is missing with him. Sparano and co. just don't have another season to see him develop. It's a shame because he should have been taken probably in 3rd round or later. High round expectations have done him in... What I would like to know, which we probably won't know until some time in the future, is whether or not he was open to changing positions to WR, RB, WCxQB, returner or whether he resisted that change and wanted to be a proset QB or nothing...if the latter is the case, he'll end up with nothing. This regime has steadfastly wanted him to be a QB. Saying several times as the year wore on last year, that he was a QB not a 'slash' player....Was that their idea or his ??
First, there is no doubt that his scrutiny amongst fans should be directed to the Troika. We were not a team that had enough talent to take a project guy, but they did. Right, wrong or indifferent, Pat White drew the ire of the fans because he couldn't live up to his draft status. That is of no consequence though. The bottom line is that he didn't perform, even when he had chances. You can say the same thing about Ted Ginn and John Beck. As I said in a previous thread, we've heard rumblings from both the staff and from White as to whether or not he was receptive to a position change. We just don't know yet what the real truth is there. I'm not in the camp that expected him to be Dan Marino, Jr. In fact, from the beginning, with my limited knowledge of football (compared to many of our posters here), I just never saw him as a proset QB. I've always been more upset at the Troika for that pick than at White. I think many people feel the same, but there are some who've hated on him... On one hand, you make a point that he had only 5 pass attempts in tenuous situations during games. On the other hand, he never really once showed even a spark of that talent he was supposed to have and secondly and more importantly, he wasn't asked to run the entire offense and take the team on this shoulders, he was asked to learn the one part of the game that seemingly translated to his skill set, that of the WCxQB. He couldn't master or even show some potential in that ?? I am not sure about your statement of 'changing his role halfway thru'. They said from the beginning that he would be asked to be the #3 QB and learn that position, but that he'd have some meaningful snaps in other areas of the offense (assumingly meaning the WC, or at least that's what we all expected). He struggled in all phases he was asked to perform in. As to whether or not he'd have been available to us later in the draft, you're probably right, however, his 0/5 for 0 yrds and 21 rushes for 81 yrds in 52 plays could have easily been found elsewhere if we had passed on him at #44 and missed out on him. You can't miss what you didn't have.... I think at this point, releasing or even getting a later round pick is the best thing for us and for him. It's time for us to move on (as it was for Ginn) and it's time for him to either join a baseball team or try to hook on somewhere where they can spend the time with him....(can anyone say NE or Indy) ??
You are kinda contradicting yourself there. You can't say he was only asked to learn how to be a WildCat QB AND that he was asked to show himself as a drop-back passer. I don't think Pat White would have succeeded any way you cut it - but I don't think the FO ever seemed to have a clear idea of what they wanted.
One point was what the staff had him to be responsible for, the #3 QB spot and some other meaningful snaps (using Sparano's words at the time of the draft). In the other instance it was referencing what he did when he did get in. At that point, after Henne was struggling and late in the year, he was put in to see what he'd learned about the #3 qb spot. Yes, he was in mostly on WC snaps, but he did get some snaps as the proset QB, few... It was really regarding two different points that Trowa was making in his post... Agreed (bolded), or at least that's the way it seemed. I think the question, once a decision is made on the kid and assuming he gets cut/traded, will be who's idea was it to force him to be that proset QB ?? Sparano's or his. Was he resistant to a position change as we'd heard at times or did he want to change to a slash guy and not stay at QB ?? I just don't know whether we really know the truthful answer to that yet.
I look forward to the day he's "Gone like Ginn" You guys trying to make a case for him are........ A) making things up as you go along ......... B) Oblivious to what's right in front your faces ........C) Both
Imho the FO badly misread where the team was heading into 2009. Imho what they saw was a Qb situation with Penny and Henne and thought they were set moving forward so why not take a shot on a unique, WC Qb to be the #3 Qb? They calculated that Henne could remain the #3 Qb, with White coming in to play as the #2 Qb in WC plays, or PatCat plays, which makes some sense and that exact scenario played out in Pittsburgh. What they failed to see was how to develop Pat White, he is not a cookie cutter type of Qb, yet they demand that from their Qb's, so in came Thiggy, to make certain they signed Pennington as having a Qb's with experience was more important than the Pat Cat and the game day roster/#3 Qb flexibility. Which leaves Pat out in the Sahara, if there is no Pat Cat, then there is little room for him, which is what we are seeing play out this preseason.
I can't help but wonder how much messing with his overall mechanics instead of tweaking set him back. This kid was a seat-of-your-pants, think on the run QB and they wanted him to be a stand tall in the pocket, do your check-downs and get rid of the ball QB. Can he ever be that and if so what is a fair time frame on that?
The Patriots were making noises as though they wanted to draft Pat White which is why I believe we drafted him that high.BB smoke screen IMO. I am afraid we got snookered ...yet again .
Correction. Pat White was a make one read and then run quarterback. He was not a fly by the seat of the pants quarterback. There is a reason that he never was asked to attempt very many difficult passes at the college level. He was a one read and run quarterback, and you will never turn them into traditional drop back style quarterbacks who stand tall in the pocket and look to pass the ball as opposed to run.
Correction noted, but you answered my question anyway. Seems like we over estimated either his ability to change or the coaching staffs abilities to make him change. Possibly both.
@LarryFinFan - Pat White's role changed very drastically last year after week 3. Throughout TC and Pre-Season he was working mostly out of the WC. He was asked to learn a package of plays they had set aside for him and then they planned to bring him along slowly as a Pro-Set QB. The problem came when Penny went down and White was one snap away from being the starting QB for this team. They started throwing more at him than he was ready for. They tried to teach him the offense in-season, and still expected him to be able to run his packages. It was just an overload for the guy. At least that's the story I heard from him. Pat White said before the draft that he wanted to be a QB. He reiterated several times that he did not want to switch positions. If our FO took him to be anything other than a QB, you can hardly blame that on White. To add to that point, even playing him as a QB, they've tried to change him from the player they drafted. You don't draft a QB with his skill set and try to turn him into Joe Montana. You draft him and try to turn him into Steve Young/John Elway. Not to say I ever expect White to reach that level, but that's the STYLE of QB you want him to be. A mobile guy who makes plays with his feet and his arm. I think the whole situation has been mis-managed from day 1. There were several factors that went into it, some the FOs fault, some White's fault, some just a bad deal of fate. However, this isn't the first player this trio has mis-managed into oblivion. And I know that doesn't entitle him to a spot on the 53 man roster. But anyone who says they agree with the way White has been handled, or thinks that White has been given a fair shot, I'd like to know how you came to those conclusions.
I hear ya, Trowa...Whether or not he's been treated right is immaterial right now and certainly not a point I was arguing against. Sparano did say, from the very beginning he would be treated as QB with some other significant playing time. It's pretty obvious from the quote below. Quote: Dolphins coach Tony Sparano addressed quarterback Pat White’s role on the team in his rookie year. And we’re starting to get a feeling that the Fins don’t want anyone to know how they plan to use the former West Virginia quarterback. Sparano initially reiterated that the Dolphins drafted White to be a quarterback. Later, however, Sparano gushed about White’s ability to “do a lot of jobs,” which implies that he might do some moonlighting at other positions. Then there’s the Wildcat. Asked whether it’s a safe assumption that White will be heavily involved in the specialized offensive attack, Sparano said, “That’s an assumption. But I don’t know how safe it is one way or the other.” Then Sparano pointed out that running back Ronnie Brown did a “tremendous” job in that role a year ago. " At any rate, I'm not blaming White's demise on White totally. He was drafted too high which set the expectations too high. He has a skillset that for whatever reason hasn't translated to the NFL game. Then there is the question of what role White has played in his role as a QB or a slash type player....we don't know that...However, despite the impact that Sparano and his 'plan' for White may have had good or bad, the bottom line is that the kid didn't show anything last year when he did have chances. That can't be denied. When all is said and done, there is little doubt that White's situation has been mishandled. Be that for reasons of his inability at this level and/or resistance to learning a different position to complement his contributions as the #3 QB or for the mishandling of the entire season last year by the staff, the bottom line is that White hasn't produced. Whether, under different conditions he'd have had more success, we'll never know...
Who knows? The thing is, Sparano won't compromise on White being that type of Qb, THEN he would have seen more PatCat time, White is failing at it and it appears they are moving on from White altogether. I think people don't realize how much of a "win now" mode they are in right now, they have no time to mess around with White's development.
