1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Davis and Smith play

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Coral Reefer, Aug 22, 2010.

Tags:
  1. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

    10,281
    5,232
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Back in Miami
    Didn't get to see the game but while I see some real good stats and comments from you guys about Henne (most important for success this season IMO) I also see some very troubling comments on our rookie CB's progression (2nd most important aspect for a successful season IMO).

    How bad was their play?
    With the safety position being up in the air already we NEED the 2 rookie CB's to progress this year. If they don't were in deep trouble so I'm really curious to hear from you guys exactly what happened and how bad it really was.

    Input?
     
  2. 2k5

    2k5 I miss Ted Ginn Jr.

    2,781
    1,309
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Milwaukee, WI
    I wouldn't worry yet. They struggled for sure, but the field was wet and the Jags do have some quick receivers. Our secondary will not be a strength this year, but we have the athletic ability to capitalize on errors forced by the front seven, which I expect to be quite common.
     
    TheAnswer385 likes this.
  3. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

    39,245
    10,681
    0
    Dec 2, 2007
    Miami FL
    Davis did trip on one play and Clemons saved his *** on another by knocking the ball out of the WR's hands.
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    Davis was beat for a big gain by Mike Sims Walker. And then after that Sean Smith was beat for a big gain by either Mike Thomas or Mike Sims Walker. I'm not really sure.

    On another play, I remember Davis being beat, again. This time by Troy Williamson. Luckily, he bobbled the ball and dropped it.
     
  5. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

    38,949
    20,033
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    I completely missed the game's original airing, but I'm watching it via DVR right now.

    Mike Sims-Walker abused Smith and Davis, beating Smith in particular for some major RAC on a slant pass. (Dear OC Henning, why isn't the slant pass and run after catch part of our playbook? Oh, wait, there it is... to Anthony Fasano?) Nolan Carroll was beat in the end zone for a touchdown pass to Mike Thomas, though the Jags were penalized for 12 men on the field after, but Carroll was beat straight up man to man. There were also some plays where Smith and Davis were completely beat, but Garrard couldn't get the ball to the receiver.

    Silver lining so far: the corners were good against the run, not that run defense is all that important. Vontae blew up Jones-Drew in the backfield for a loss, and MJD was generally ineffective, at least in the first quarter.

    I'd say the secondary didn't have a great day. There were some cringe-worthy moments.
     
    Big E likes this.
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    In fairness to Smith, he got picked off by one of his teammates.

    And, I think the Dolphins were flagged for 12 men on the field, not the Jaguars.
     
  7. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

    31,885
    8,682
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Bloomington, IN.
    This is where having solid safeties would help us more. God love Bell but he's almost a glorified LB in the backfield.
     
    Anonymous, Fin-Omenal and GMJohnson like this.
  8. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    The big play to Sims Walker was on Vontae, sort of. MSW is a big WR and asking VD, or any corner, to cover him with no underneath or over the top help is a bad idea. Clemons manned up on the slot WR and Bell was the over the top S on the play. Shame on VD for getting beat, but shame on Nolan for calling that coverage as well.

    What I saw on the second play was Vontae playing outside leverage with LBs underneath and Clemons over the top. With no WR threatening the deep outside, Clemons should have been much quicker to the ball. Being that it was an in breaking route, blame the LBs for not getting deeper drops, or Clemons for not reading the play quick enough, but Vontae wasn't to blame for that one. JMHO.
     
    djphinfan and Big E like this.
  9. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

    38,949
    20,033
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    Bell is pretty one-dimensional, absolutely. But the real problem back there is Clemons. It's notable that Sparano has backed off his "Clemons is the starter" stuff.
     
    RickyBobby likes this.
  10. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    Yeah, safety is going to be a problem for us, again. Letting Renaldo Hill go was a bad choice.
     
    MikeHoncho and Agua like this.
  11. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    Yep. Classic rub/pick route. Against man coverage its almost impossible to stop, unless there's a robber underneath. That being said, 25 yds is way too much. Smith lacks make up speed, and Dansby seemed to have sandbags on his ankles, so there you have it.
     
    Anonymous likes this.
  12. dwhorton

    dwhorton New Member

    1,054
    391
    0
    Mar 6, 2009
    i wasn't happy with their play either but smith got rubbed by his on guy. now what we don't know is how much of their play is based on the defense play calling being the preseason and all. the sims walker catch on vontae , he played off coverage the appeared to want to jam walker and walker avioded him and ran right by him. that seemed like a dumb thing to do give the guy a 7 yd cushion then try to jam him i would say most wrs. worth their salt could've done the same thing. maybe he was working on technique or something.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,650
    67,542
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    When it rains for 5 strait hours and your field is soaked your coaches wil direct their corners to play off with extra cushion...you sacrifice some chunk yards and underneath stuff for fear of the quick 6..bottom line, you dont come up and play press at the beginning of the game on a drenched field.. and, Its also hard to cover your man when your playing 10 to 15 yards off him on a wet field, point is, keeping everything in front of you is your main job while The field draining..

    SSVD our man up corners imo, its what they do best, and its why our defense will be able to do so many different things with the other 9....

    No worries guys, corner is the hardest position to play in those circumstances..
     
    Trowa likes this.
  14. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

    9,802
    7,239
    113
    Jan 4, 2008
    Swamps of Jersey
    Another thing to consider is that they're not going to go from struggling rookies to All-Pro CB's in one offseason.

    They'll still get beat every now and then. What you want to see is continued improvement week to week. I'm more concerned with what they're looking like come fall as opposed to what they're doing in pre-season week 2.
     
    MikeHoncho likes this.
  15. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    Even if they do play like all-pro CBs they will still be beat about 50% of the time. That's the reality of today's NFL. A good CB is one that stops about half of the completions and stays close enough to limit the YAC. An all-pro CB is one that stops about half of the completions, stays close enough to limit the YAC and 6 or more of those stops are INTs. Even the all-world CBs like Revis, and Bailey who do have seasons where they stop more than 50% of the completions only do that for one maybe two seasons (IIRC it's only happened twice in the last twenty years), then they return to the mean.
     
    USArmyFinFan, CWBIII and GMJohnson like this.
  16. Duss

    Duss Season Ticket Holder

    1,861
    584
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    Wich is to be expected when we generated about 0 pass rush all nite, I expect Nolan and thee defense to be all different when the real season comes along
     
    USArmyFinFan likes this.
  17. JMORGAN6977

    JMORGAN6977 New Member

    476
    193
    0
    Jan 9, 2008
    PHX
    IMO I think this is exactly what we want to see. Mike Nolan is not doing them any favors. He has not pulled any cards from his deck as he shouldnt. These guys are being put on islands right now to see what they got. Then he can adjust coverages and packages as needed. I think we got some gems and it is going to be fun to watch this defense full of young players this year.

    Much to many Revis island wagon jumpers dismay, he is only as good as the coverage support and the blitz package. If Revis lined up with wilson and Bell last year he would have looked no better than our 2 rookies IMO.
     
  18. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

    18,044
    19,676
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Well away from here
    These guys will be left on islands all season long. Nolan isn't doing anything special, nor is he being absolutely vanilla. Nolan employs a great deal of man to man coverage with a high safety a good deal of the time. He does bring his safeties on blitzes on average 12 times a game, so we will see our corners left on islands more than we have done for some time.

    The problem is that Smith is a not a great man to man cover guy as he doesn't have the requisite lateral agility. That's one reason he is always getting beaten on in routes. Davis is the better of the two at man to man coverage, but he is also a gambler.

    Our safeties need to play better in terms of providing deep help. Some of this is to be expected as we do have a young secondary, other elements of it need to improve. But these guys being left on an island is the norm, not something special.
     
  19. jaxdolfan

    jaxdolfan Journeyman

    37
    12
    0
    Apr 16, 2008
    Jacksonville, Florida
    One good thing about both Smith and Davis is that they are good tacklers and are aggressive and athletic. That cannot be taught.
     
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,650
    67,542
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    wrong imo...a once and a generation type corner like Revis creates space for others with his skillset, other dcordinator's dream of the things they can do with a talent like him...but unfortuanately cannot.
     
  21. Robert Horry

    Robert Horry New Member

    388
    405
    0
    Aug 8, 2010
    Or its actually the DBs fault.

    What Clemons and Bell need to do is help more on the vertical passes, but I haven't see a vertical pass or deep post or deep pass completed against us unless its over the shoulder near the sidelines. Most of the time this preseason, QBs take their 5 step drop and look downfield and nothing is open.
     
  22. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

    9,802
    7,239
    113
    Jan 4, 2008
    Swamps of Jersey
    Absolutely. I've always thought CB is one position where fans tend to really go overboard with criticism at times. Completions are going to happen. What Davis and Smith will learn, hopefully, is to minimize the "chunk" yardage and 3rd down completions.
     
    rafael likes this.
  23. hooserdaddy

    hooserdaddy Season Ticket Holder

    91
    87
    18
    Mar 22, 2008
    by the way the slant is part of our play book, and has been dropped by Marshall twice in the pre-season with one of them looking like he would have had a lot of extra yards.
     
  24. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    Add to this the WR's always have the advantage on a wet field as the CB can't cut as easily to match. I am not worried about SSVD yet as like you mentioned, we have yet to see Nolan's complicated schemes. Those will come out on an as needed basis during the regular season, not in preseason.
     
  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    We're talking about 120 yards and 10 points in the first half. It just seems like the way people are talking, you'd think the Jags wiped the floor with our defense. Garrard advanced the ball 1 yard on his first drive, 2 yards on his final drive, and yeah he did have a nice looking scoring drive on one of the three drives he had. Any offense that has Mike Sims-Walker and Maurice Jones-Drew is going to gain some yards and score every now and then.
     
  26. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

    38,949
    20,033
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    Distinction without a difference: safeties are defensive backs. The term defensive back refers to members of the secondary.
     
  27. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

    8,605
    6,743
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Slightly left of center
    Just because we don't have Troy Polomalu Jr back there yet doesn't mean letting Hill go was a bad idea. Letting Hill go was a good idea all b y itself.
     
  28. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    I disagree. Letting go of Hill was a poor choice.
     
  29. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    45,652
    19,304
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Windsor, ON. CANADA
    Lets not forget, we still have Will Allen too when the regular season starts. Davis and Smith are bound to get burned once in a while, any corner is really, its part of the game.
     
  30. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    You're wrong. Starting two rookies, three sophomores, and a new FA LB in a preseason game, under a new defensive scheme, is no excuse. We should all be VERY worried by what happened out there. It was a friggin disgrace. If we don't trade for Revis, Ware, and Polamalu immediately, we're doomed.
     
    Puka-head and DePhinistr8 like this.
  31. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    53,148
    31,935
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX
    I definitely think you need to step back from the cliff.
     
  32. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

    6,715
    1,298
    113
    Apr 30, 2008
    Central FL
    I think this is a REDICULOUS statement... Bell is a Pro-Bowler and rightly so! He's great against the run and blitzing and has proved himself many times in coverage! He isn't a FS, but a typical SS in the mold of Dawkins etc.
     
  33. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    26,254
    17,386
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Orlando
    I hope he was being sarcastic.

    I'm not overly conserned about the play of the secondary but you'd like to see them play better. I think you'll really see what these guys are made of when the regular seaosn starts and we're game planning, blitzing, etc.

    I think both guys will be good. They don't have to be Revis, just be solid and make some big plays ocassionally.
     
  34. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

    3,123
    2,247
    113
    Mar 24, 2008
    You crazy kids.
     
  35. Robert Horry

    Robert Horry New Member

    388
    405
    0
    Aug 8, 2010


    Can you guys not sense his sarcasm?
     
  36. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

    3,123
    2,247
    113
    Mar 24, 2008
    Yes I can. I thought it was funny. That is why I thanked his post.
     
    Puka-head likes this.
  37. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

    2,643
    909
    0
    Dec 16, 2007
    Colorado Springs, CO
    To me my number one concern is our d-backs giving up way too many yards. It has been a problem for many years. We have to improve our coverage and our tackling. I haven't really seen much progress from V. Davis or Smith. I hope we can bring in a veteran d-back to help us out before the season starts.
     

Share This Page