I thought this was a good idea for a thread, saw it on Finheaven. Please chime right on in with any disagreements you have or anything you have to add. This is about figuring out which players on the team are the absolute best in some basic categories like strength, speed, etc. Fastest: Chris Clemons - Ran a 4.33 at the Combine according to Rob Rang's and Frank Cooney's numbers. Not only that but everyone knew that Ted Ginn was the fastest Dolphin in 2009. If you check out the 0:47 mark of my tape of Clemons' highlights, you can see one dreadlocked guy that, starting right around the 20 to 25 yard line when Ginn has one player to beat, actually runs with Ginn almost step for step in full open gear for the whole distance. The "deer" was opening it up for whatever reason, and no he couldn't quite keep up with Ginn (who can?) but he came pretty close and I don't think anyone else on the team could do that. Strongest: Jake Grove - 376 pound power clean, 490 pound bench press, 575 pound squat when he came out of school. And he's probably stronger now that he's been in the pros. You can look up those numbers for any other Dolphin but you won't find better, coming out of school. I do give credit where credit is due for Jake Long though because the combination of height, arm length and weight room prowess that he has is even more rare than Grove's numbers. Smartest: Chad Pennington - This one's easy. He graduated with a 3.83 GPA from Marshall University, was a finalist for Rhodes Scholarship, won the Draddy Trophy given to the college player with the best combination of athletic and academic prowess, and he's one of the smartest and most disciplined situational football players in the history of the game. Best Jumper: Cameron Wake - As has been stated, he owns the second highest vertical jump ever recorded at the Combine at 45.5". I believe at the time it was a record, and that Sensabaugh broke it later, but I could be wrong on that. He also had a 10'10" broad jump which isn't RIDICULOUS (Calvin Johnson's 11'7" is the best I've ever heard of by a long shot) but it is excellent. Jason Allen is underrated in this category, as he put in a 39.5" vertical with a 10'11" broad jump. Most Agile: Jason Allen - This may be a surprise to you but not to me. At the time when Allen put up his scores, I came up with a complicated, standardized value over position average formula for grading size based and athletic based Combine measurements and Jason Allen not only came out the best of his class but the best that I was able to grade in all of NFL Draft Scout's long database of historical Combine records. As I said, he's probably the second best jumper on the team behind only the original grasshopper Cameron Wake. But one measurement that you very rarely see reproduced at the Combine is Allen's 3.83 second short shuttle. According to NFL Draft Scout, only 3 players in the history of the Combine ever bested that time by a significant margin (Kevin Kasper, Dunta Robinson, Deion Branch). You combine that with a very good 6.77 cone drill time and you have the most agile player on the team. Brian Hartline's 6.65 cone drill just barely missed out on NFL Draft Scout's Top 25 all time Combine scores, but his shuttle, while actually quite good, is still well outside the range. The guy you wouldn't think of but who is actually a lot better in this area than you'd imagine is Nate Ness, whose 6.63 pro day cone drill would have qualified him for Top 25 all time if he'd done it at the Combine, and whose 4.16 shuttle is very good. Best Hands: Greg Camarillo - What can you say? If it's there, the guy catches it...sometimes with his hands, sometimes even with his butt. If you were able to check Pro Football Focus' stats before they went pay-only (grumble), then you know that Camarillo dropped no passes in 2009, and only 2 in 2008. Bess can't boast the same catch to drop ratio as Camarillo. Neither can Brandon Marshall. Nor Hartline (to date). Best Tackler: Yeremiah Bell - I also have to refer to Pro Football Focus' statistics on this one. He missed one tackle in 2009, and not very many in 2008. If you look at his tackles to missed tackles ratio, I believe it's the best on the team. He doesn't tend to miss. Guys like Channing Crowder and even Karlos Dansby might miss where Yeremiah Bell would not. Most Dominant: Brandon Marshall - I'll give this to Omar Kelly who says Marshall is the most dominant player he's ever seen in practices. He dominates like that during the games, too. It's a very basic domination, the ability to go one on one and create separation. And I think it is really, really difficult to be the kind of guy that does that on a consistent basis. So much of everything is scheme. Most Likely Hall of Famer: Jake Long - With all due respect to Brandon Marshall, who is probably a little more dominant a football player, Jake Long has the intangibles that keep him healthy, consistent and out of trouble. He's only been in the league two years and he just keeps getting better. He and Brandon Marshall are both perfectionists, which is a good thing. They're always trying to get better. In Jake's third year in the league he's already accomplished everything he could have in his first two seasons, but he's not on cruise control. He's lowering his body fat percentage even more, which is scary because he was already the only 310 pounder I knew of with abs. He's getting even stronger in the weight room, and he's keenly focused on getting better.
Nice thread. I agree with everything, but I remember Sparano mentioning that Randy Starks was the strongest guy on team. I don't have any numbers to back that up, but if it were true, Long's numbers with his body type are more impressive.
When I've heard Randy Starks being talked about, everyone has always said "one of" the strongest guys on the team. As in, there are others that are up there with him. I think that Jake Grove is probably one of those guys that are up there with him. That 376 pound power clean, you don't find that reproduced often in a guy coming out of college. Jake Long's was 328 pounds, for example.
Ikaika Alama Francis had the top Vertical Leap for players over 275 pds with 35 inches, and that was with a torn pectoral muscle.
Good read! Kind of off topic but I was wondering where Henne's arm strength ranks around the rest of the NFL. I know he has a cannon is it as strong as Favre when he was young or even Marino?
Jake Grove set a school position record with a 35 inch vertical leap at Virginia, and he came out 303 lbs.
440 pounds, according to Rob Rang's and Frank Cooney's data. And he did 27 bench reps at 6033 and 314 lbs. He did have a 765 pound squat though. But, that's kind of a ridiculous number and you wonder if there was some confusion about whether it was a squat or a leg press.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2zk_hiMoVk"]YouTube- Cameron Wake vertical leap(11'8")‎[/ame]
I know I read it somewhere. Maybe PFW's book they put out every year. It said Starks had a 1RM of 500 on the bench. It stuck in my mind because he was only 20 at the time, or close to it, and I was hoping we'd draft him.
As for 765, that would not be a great leg press for someone like Starks, so I'd say they meant to say squat. I recall reading in PFW's book back in 1994 that Aubrey Beavers had a 750 lb squat. So 765 would not be too crazy a number IMO, for Starks.
Greetings CK. For the poster who asked about Henne's arm strength, I think Henne is definitely top 5 in term of Throwing power in the NFL. One of the categories I would like to be added is acceleration. I wonder who has the ability to get from 0 to 60 the fastest.
That was fun to read, thanks. Most explosive; VD...Perfectly built athlete with fast twich fibers firing, combined with a demeanor to hurt someone, the cockiness to stand over them, spread his arm's outright and HOWL AWOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.. Anyone have a logical reason why Wake would not be on the field goal block team, especially when you can jump higher than anyone on the team, your a defensive rookie, and you were playing once every 15 play's..lol
Virginia Tech actually. And I would bet VD is second fastest player on the team (Bell might be high on the list too, or would've been a couple years ago).
I think Nolan Carroll might be faster. While he timed 4.42 at the Combine and I believe VD timed 4.41, I've heard I think it might even be a coach mention that Carroll's run a 4.36 before.
I'm just going by the KR for a TD that he stopped last year, and the USC running back he ran down while at Illinois (might've been McKnight, I can't recall). I know he timed fast as well, but I know he is crazy fast with pads on. Honestly, when I saw VD do that in the Illinois game, I was salivating at the thought of him being a fin. Edit: At 2:10s mark of this 2008 rose bowl video. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t-f-39A4fs&feature=related"]YouTube- USC 2008 Rose Bowl Highlight‎[/ame]
A couple of yrs ago a Patriots fan pointed out a truism about the Dolphins then Roster: There were no players that the Patriots had to game plan for on offense, people pointed out Ronnie B, of course he then tore his ACL. Fast forward three offseasons, and Henning is close to having his own group of Triplets in Marshal, Ronnie B, Chad Henne, as a whole the team has improved enough that Ricky Williams is almost an afterthought among fans. As for freakish athletes/measurables, on defense we now have several, Wake, Vontae (whose vertical leap out on the field is outstanding..ask Tom Brady) Starks, YBell, Karlos Dansby, perhaps Ikaika Francis and Chris Clemons.
Not so much Sean Smith imho, he is a large Cb, but his measurables were not freakish, Carroll hasn't played in a preseason game yet, and Jason Allen is freakish, but in the past limited in what DefCord's could do with him. Now one thing I will give Jason Allen, imho he is the hardest hitter of the Secondary players, even moreso than Vontae Davis imho..JA will simply throw his body around with that warp speed that he has to offer. Dude is quite reckless.
I disagree with you Pod about hardest hitter....The mathmatics and physics add up to VD..Jason Allen while wreckless and fearless, doesn't have the body to back it up, very thin jointed athlete... the musculature and frame behind VD'S force? at impact?..no contest son.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0LnIWT0Yvo"]YouTube- Benjamin Watson Gets Hit Hard by Jason Allen‎[/ame] He has had a few other ones, the other one that really stands out is from the 07 Giants game in London when JA jacked up Brandon Jacobs, the ball literally flew 5 yds up into the air from the impact.
What? Lou Polite is without a doubt the hardest hitting player on the phins roster, Lou was literally knocking Linebackers out of the Carolina Game last yr.
Sean Smith is a very rare physical specimen. He and Nnamdi Asomugha are the only corners in the NFL that can be as big as they are and still move well enough to start at cornerback in the NFL. That's freakish. More so than Vontae Davis or Nolan Carroll. They're faster for sure, more explosive speed, but significantly smaller. Nolan Carroll and Vontae Davis have nearly identical measurements. And Nate Ness surprisingly isn't that far off. And Jason Allen still beats all of the above in terms of pure physicals.
Problem with Sean Smith is I'm not completely sold on him. Can he play Cb in the NFL? If so, what are the signs? When a prototype is broken, for example Cb's tend to be say 6'1 on average, it takes extraordinary ability to make it work otherwise the prototype would move and tall Cb's would be sought for everywhere. Instead Cb's tend to be somewhat compact players with great measurables. I know phinfans want to look at Vontae and Smith and see Surtain and Madison, but at the end of the day, both were consistently torched last season and imho they have to both show they have improved over 09's track meet in the secondary performance. Not to say they can't or won't improve, but they both still have much to prove imho.
I've seen enough of VD to project him to a high level Pod..Iam good...Ive seeen the instincts, the athleticism...with Sean I worry about change of direction. I think these two are man up corners...VD being better in zone.
I understand where you're coming from, but it should be noted that both Surtain and Madison were torched quite a bit at the beginning of their careers, particularly Surtain. One thing you have to remember- they didn't take Smith just because of his height and an idea to break away from a particular prototype. They took Smith because, as Chris pointed out, he has freakish abilities for a player his size. Does he have a lot to learn yet? Sure. But I wouldn't let the perception that he had a bad first week of camp (and subsequent Dolfan panic attacks) color him in a negative light. There were things he did very well last season, and many mistakes he made last year are quite correctable.
Need to see some of that freakish ability out on the field PG. TC means very little to Sean Smith PG, it does not mean a whole lot to me either, save for bottom of the roster types who surprise, Agent Smith needs to show those mistakes are corrected or Will Allen will be starting over him.
Being the f'n man: Jake Long. The man is on his way to becoming one of the best #1 overall picks in nfl history. physically, he's huge. he's determined. He's smart. everytime i think about Jake Long I'm eternally grateful he's a dolphin. Our qb play got better as soon as he signed his contract. I have no doubt he's a significant reason why.
