I'm In a Pickle

First, why in the hell did your league draft so early? Training camp hasn't even started in most places.

Second, Jamaal Charles is being overrated this year, IMO. Depending on how seriously you're taking fantasy football, pulling the trigger on that trade is entirely up to you. If you have NOTHING at QB, then it's better than said nothing.

 

You really think Charles is that overrated?

I've seen him generally ranked just outside of the top 10 RBs in ppr.

I think that's a fair projection.


I'd do that trade too assuming you have another decent QB.

 

Good luck, man.

Yes, that's overrated. Jamaal Charles is this year's trendy player, just like Matt Forte was supposed to be huge last year. Didn't quite work out. Charles is better than Jerome Harrison, but at least Harrison isn't being wildly overrated. (I'm not drafting Harrison, just to be clear.)

 

He catches a lot of passes and is easily the best player on his offense so I'd say it's warranted to some degree.

Forte has never been that impressive as a runner. He just had a monster workload and people thought he was legit.

 

Forte is an impressive runner IMO. However, that OL is not so good.

 

I love pickles.

 

So you traded your starting RB for a backup QB?
Love Homers in FF

Post your roster please.

 

Eh. Never was very impressed with his vision or speed.

The OL is def not the greatest though.

 

plus Martz is there..the RB killa.

 

Plus they just paid Chester Taylor a lot more than backup money.

 

Really? I think he has some good vision. He has hands and his blocking is good. I like him quite a bit. The interior OL sucks though.

 

Forte has a sub-4.0 YPA. He looked good on national TV once and fell flat the rest of the way. His numbers were the result of being force-fed the ball.

 

I'm not looking at his numbers. I'm looking at his talent. He has talent. He also has a ****ty supporting cast.

 

I agree on Charles being that overrated. Last year Thomas Jones wasnt there. While Jones may not be the starter I do expect him to take around 40% of the carries, especially short yardage and goalline. And before Jones gets dismissed as a plodder, he did rush for 1300 yards last year even if it was behind a good OL.

my thoughts exactly. I try and find the homers in every league Im in.

Taylor will have the same role he had behind Adrian peterson, he will be used to give the starter a breather. Now occasionally it will cost you a TD but it could keep forte healthier and fresher. So you take the good with the bad. You just draft Taylor as a handcuff.

Which is why Taylor actually helps him. He needed a quality back up behind him..

 

Chris Johnson isn't going to the Super Bowl any time soon and he did just fine.

I'm sorry, but a guy who can't break 4.0 YPC doesn't scream "talent" to me. He has a great running style, but at the same time, he's not doing much with it on the field. I liked Forte coming out, but he's just not what the Bears thought he was. /Denny Green

If I had to draft an NFC North running back who gets his numbers via force-feeding, I'd take Ryan Grant 2 rounds earlier.

Disagreed. When your YPC is that low, you need every touch possible just to put up run of the mill numbers. Taylor's presence is not good for Forte's fantasy prospects, IMO.

 

You're not comparing the Titans OL to the Bears OL, are you? It's not even close. Tough to break 4.0 when you have to shed tacklers at the line.

 

Put Forte behind the Titans OL and Johnson behind the Bears OL and Johnson still outperforms Forte.

More importantly, I don't place much blame on the Bears OL for the shortcomings of their running game, because Forte kept running inside rather than outside. At some point, the judgment of the running back comes into play. 2008 Forte ran outside a few times and made some decent gains. 2009 Forte, well, the numbers say it all.

I don't doubt that Forte can be a good RB, but I'm in "show me" mode with him. RB is one of the easiest positions in the NFL to succeed at, and Forte isn't right now.

 

Johnson is a more talented player than Forte, there's no argument there. You can't compare the two IMO. They are different players. I would bet that Forte could put up very good numbers if he played behind Tennessee's OL. That offensive line is very, very good and they don't get enough credit for it. Chicago's line is not nearly as good.

 

I don't disagree that Tennessee's OL is better than Chicago's OL, though we need to see how the Titans handle the loss of Kevin Mawae.

But I don't think Forte's struggles have very much to do with the OL. A good runner will eventually create his own opportunities. Forte doesn't do that, at least not that I've seen.

 

You need holes to run through if you're a running back. I don't care how good you are, if you don't have holes, you have nothing. Especially when you're not lightning quick to turn the corner, which Forte isn't.

 

Youre free to disagree but if he was fresher then his numbers might not be so low. What would have helped him even more was Cutler throwing to the right team and receivers that stretch the field and can catch not just one or the other like the Bears roster seems to be cluttered with. Forte saw as much 8 men in the box as any one short of Thomas Jones and Ronnie Brown.

Really, comparing Forte to one of the top 3 fantasy backs? YPC is often times a reflection on the guys in front of you so while you may be in show me mode, it still doesnt prove Forte is a bad fantasy back. He had a bad season but that doesnt mean this season will be bad. I could sit here and say Im not drafting ronnie brown cause he cant stay healthy but it doesnt make it the right decision. With any player there is a value system; there's a point where you would jump on the player because its too good to pass up and there are rounds or deals you would pass on. I think Forte is a top 12 back for fantasy which is more then what I think of Jamaal Charles' situation with Thomas Jones there by a pretty fair margin.

 

There's more to a running back's numbers than OL play. Would Forte's numbers improve if the Bears OL got better? Sure. Would he be one of the top RBs in the NFL? Nope.

Forte WAS a top 3 fantasy back in 2009. Chris Johnson was considered a late 1st round/early 2nd round pick.

 

He could be, based off his all around skills.

 

I'd place him in the middle of the pack.

 

I think Forte is going to produce much more than Charles, especially in a PPR league. Forte will do a lot of damage as a receiver.

And if you're going to argue that Taylor will take touches from Forte, I would think Thomas Jones would take more from Charles.

 

Taylor is going to hurt Forte's value even more in PPR. He'll not only steal a few TDs, but probably a good share of the RB rec.

I could see Jones doing the same w/Charles but it really depends on if they want to let JC go and see if he can handle 20 touches a game, or if they want to play it conservatively right out of the gate.

My thinking is that KC is such a bad team that they need to get JC the ball as much as possible. But that's far from a guarantee.

 

Yea, I hate to say it but for Phins love got the best of you on this one. Jamaal Charles will be a large part of the KC offense, which is looking like it will be more on track this year. Forte on the other hand, might be heading in the opposite direction. Look at the backs that have succeeded in a Martz offense and you notice two things: they are great pass catchers and have good quickness. Forte, sadly, doesn't fit the mold. Forte will have some decent numbers but JC is going to come close to breaking into the top 10.

As for Henne, I love the guy but how many times do you expect to start him over Drew Brees? He has potential for a breakout year but Brees is pretty much a lock for 4000 yds and 30 TDs. As a Dolphins fan, I hope Henne warrants starting over Brees but I don't expect it.

 

JC or Dexter McCluster?

 

I imagine McCluster to have a similar role to Wes Welker. Slot receiver with some occasional trick runs but a lot of underneath work.

Charles will be more of a traditional RB with PPR bonuses.

 

Nothing wrong with that roster at all. Stashing V-Jax was a smart move, though you might want to drop Garcon or Bess for Terrell Owens, if he's still available.

Also, Marion Barber is a major sleeper. Good job there.

 

You have a lot of mediocre RBs with no real stud in the group.

The rest def looks good though.

 

I'd def keep Garcon over Owens all day.

Don't really get the Barber love when he's splitting carries/rec with two other RBs.

 

Garcon is the fourth receiver on that team. No thanks. Owens, though he really should retire, will be the #2 WR on what should be a pass-heavy Bengals team. He'll be a mid-range #3 fantasy WR, which is exactly what Phinatic425 needs with Vincent Jackson on ice for now.

Barber is more productive with less carries. Look at his 2007 and 2009 numbers.

But if you don't put any stock in that, look at it this way: Felix Jones is an injury waiting to happen, and in a normal situation, Tashard Choice will never get more carries or catches than Marion Barber.

I don't get why Barber is so undervalued. He's the best RB on that team by far.

 

How is Garcon a 4th WR? I'd wait till camp to see what happens between Gonzalez and Collie, but there's no way I'd drop Garcon now.

He's got Manning as a QB and he's the 3rd target behind Wayne and Clark, imo.

Owens can't route run for **** and has an injury-prone QB. Sure, he might get a few more targets, but I don't see any way he has more yards or TDs than Garcon.

Talent and a better QB win out there for me.


I don't like the idea of depending on an injury for Jones to give Barber value. I can't see any way that Barber is more than a 30 yard/2 rec/ maybe 1 TD every week kind of guy. There's really not that much upside as your depending on TDs for value.

Felix Jones is def the more dynamic player. If he's healthy then he dominates rec and prob yards as well. I wouldn't draft Barber expecting an injury to Jones will make his value sky rocket.

 

Wayne, Clark, and either Collie or Gonzalez all come before Garcon in the pecking order on that team.

I look at Garcon and see 30 catches, 400 yards, and 3 TDs. I look at Owens and see 40-50 catches, at least 500 yards, and 5-6 TDs.

I never said that Barber's value is dependent on Jones getting injured. Where the heck did you get that from? I said that Barber is at his best and most productive when he shares time. We learned this lesson years ago when he was splitting carries with Julius Jones. And if you don't believe that Barber is more productive with less carries, then I said you can count on an injury to Felix Jones sooner rather than later, leaving Tashard Choice the only competition for carries in that backfield.

Marion Barber as a 5th or 6th round pick and a #2 or even #3 RB is an utter steal. He's one of the most well-rounded RBs in the game. He'll produce like a borderline #1.

 

I don't agree with any of the Garcon talk. Did you watch him last year? He's def got the talent and one of the best QBs around. He should def be a WR 3.

Cincy is just the new Buffalo for TO.

I looked at Barber's numbers and while he may be productive in terms of YPC, they certainly aren't fantasy material. In fact, the biggest hit to his value in recent years has been a big hit to his rec, prob bc of Felix Jones.

I'd draft him as an RB3, but you could def do better at RB2 imo.