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Lookit dem muscles, boy! (Pat White)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Jul 22, 2010.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Thanks...and disagree, he has to make the PatCat a weapon...last yr he just wasn't...enough.

    This yr, look at him...he looks like a tailback..ooops...:up:

    My prediction..white balls a bit this year, too much talent meets too much experience meets Pride.
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    What was more alarming to me were the percentage of 0 and 1 yard gains coming out of the WildPat. Those were the killers, to me. It reminded me of the old days when Miami couldn't run the ball for jack squat, 1 yard and a cloud of dust.
     
  3. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    You mean with the Damion Mcintosh, Jeno James, Seth Mckinney, Taylor Whitley, John St. Clair starting O-line :crapstrom:
     
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  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    while ronnie is here yes, I agree, for the future he must learn both.
     
  5. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    While I agree with all your original points (Cons) about Pat White, I still say that first pass (bomb) just out of reach of Ginn's hands is one yard closer and we all have an improved perspective of White and the stats would have been blown out of proportion in the other direction. 2 feet, the difference between promising and a bust.
     
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  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he's small boned but i'll take it..

    like to see what Dexter Mccluster does on a field this year..maybe Pat will get inspired.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree. Not sure how much difference that would have made. What would it have done, make him go from 2.5 yards per play to 3.5 yards per play?

    And besides, you and I have different recollections of that pass. As I recall, he missed that connection by a long shot. At least 4-5 yards. I remember seeing it and thinking damn, there are overthrows, and then there are OVERTHROWS, and that was the latter. Henne missed a nice deep one to Hartline, I believe against the Jets, that would be an example of an overthrow in lower caps...just missed. 1:05 of the following video...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb39qlJEwXc"]YouTube- Universal Draft Presents Miami Dolphins WR Brian Hartline '09[/ame]

    That's an overthrow, a missed connection, and it happens. But when you miss by 5 yards then the receiver better have been delayed in his route either due to a jam, bump or some sort of crossing of feet. As I recall, none of that happened on that deep pass attempt to Ted Ginn. White was just off by that much.

    But maybe my memory of it is faulty.
     
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  8. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I remember him missing by quite a bit as well.
     
  9. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Travis Minor and Lamar Gordon FTW!
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    23 of the 49 plays that weren't kneel-downs or weren't called no play by penalty, went for 1 yard or less. And 5 of them lost yardage.
     
  11. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    i like pat white
     
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  12. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    They need to leave Pat White in the game to allow him to get into a rhythm!!! They keep pulling him off the field and out of the WildPat/Pistol so they can put that Chad Henne guy in! WTF!!! No wonder he isn't completing passes! :tantrum:

    I loved it when everyone made the argument that we had to leave Henne in every snap of the game for him to get into a rhythm. People were complaining about us pulling Henne out to run the Wildcat and Henne threw 50+ in that very game. :lol:
     
  13. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    It is going to take a lot more than a few muscles to turn pat white into a good football player and even more on top of that for him to be a good NFL QB. :up:
     
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  14. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    BINGO :up:
     
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  15. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    Dear Lord don't bring that season up. I remember that the Draw play was our staple run play. The nightmares... Can't shake the memories...:cry:
     
  16. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I've struggled to come around in favor of White. I never have liked the pick and still don't, although it's not that I dislike him personally, but to take him as a project QB/experimental WCxQB in lieu of an OLB, NT, FS, WR at #44 a couple of years ago just was mind boggling to me. Then he goes out and is at the least mediocre as a player at this level (at this point, anyway) really hurts. His game [at WVU] just has not translated to this level. I hope he ends up making me eat my words of criticism, but if he hasn't shown it yet, is it there to be shown ?? I just don't think so.... Another in the long line of 2nd round busts (if you want to now add Merling to all those picks given up for QBs) and it makes you wonder....I'm almost happy that they don't have a 2nd round pick to waste this coming draft.....or am I ???
     
  17. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    I definitely understand where you are coming from. Many players in the past have struggled their first year only to blossom later. Now those players in general always had a position that they fit into. And with White it sort of cloudy were he 'fits' per say. He probably will not be a better passer than Henne in the near future, he isn't big enough to be RB, and can he even play receiver?

    But I just like the kid. The run against the Pats he showed good speed. I think we give him some time let him get comfortable. Being a rookie QB isn't easy, then maybe he will start producing.

    But that is coming from a guy who has a partial Pat White man crush. I just like his general attitude and I hear his work ethic is good. I think he does have talent and he is willing to work hard, that normally produces fruit at some point. Or at least I hope it does.

    But i definitely get why people were against the pick. I was for it though.
     
  18. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    No one is saying "OMG HE IS GONNA KICK *** NOW!"(well maybe Padre)

    He still has a long way to go but the fact that he has bulked up shows that he is indeed working hard and taht he is trying to improve.

    We'll see if he has truly improved in about a week.
     
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fellow quarterback Chad Pennington said fans should prepare to be impressed.

    "To see the transition he's made over the last year is phenomenal," Pennington said. "He's made such big strides. You watch him compared to when he came in last year, he's a totally different quarterback."
     
  20. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    In shorts?

    lol...c'mon man
     
  21. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone else noticed that there's absolutely no noise, buzz, chatter, or any other form of talk about Patrick Turner?

    I'm not asking to hijack the thread, but it seems as if there's a little bit of a focus on Pat White almost purposefully.
     
  22. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Exactly, we will know what is what with White not so much in the accuracy dept, though I know his accuracy will be improved.

    We shall see it in his quickness and explosiveness while running the ball, last season White's skill set as a running back just was not good enough to do much with at the NFL level, imho that is due to some complacency on White and the Staff's part, they saw the WVa highlight reel and simply accepted what they watched as how Pat White would play as the PatCat Qb.

    With Pat White, one has to think in reverse, he runs to set up the pass as a Qb, last season no Defence respected his talent as a runner, let alone as a passer.
    \

    CK did a study of Pat White's play:

    -on the plus side, when White was the WC Qb..3 Td's

    -on the downside, when White ran the ball, he averaged something like 1 ypa..a single yard per carry..that is terrible.
     
  23. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Because Golden Earring may be shown the door Des.
     
  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    where we goin.....:lol:

    Just passin a message along..
     
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  25. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    That's sort of the point, though.
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You act like i'am basing my opinion on hope.

    jmo, but I think with how bad Pat white flashed last year, it blankets the eye to some degree, on any sort of projection of his talent within this offense, there's a sense that because you saw what you saw, there's just no upside, which may not be true.

    Iam not hoping he improves, iam projecting that he does based on what I saw and know about this offense, and how Pat's skillset could fit...

    There is a big ''if" in my personal projection of Pat white and whether or not he becomes successful..In the same article where Chad praise's Pat's progression's, there's a quote from the Front office that say's once again, he will not be learning a new position, and that he will only be used how he's been used...To me, that's a problem, and a narrowminded approach to this specific player playing in this unique offense.

    Imo, he needs to learn and play all wildcat skill position responsibilities combined with his Patcat responsibilities to live up to the scrutiny, and define a new position.
     
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  27. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Personally....... I can't see him ever running the wildcat. Ronnie Brown has passing opportunities because he's a serious threat to run the ball. Can't ever see White being enough of a threat to make it worth the time spent... and that Pistol stuff? Please...... just say no

    The only thing I see in White's game that makes him a threat at this level is his ability in the open field.... like you, I think they have seriously mis-managed this player. Before he was drafted he should have been asked if he was willing to make a position switch...... if not, don't draft him.

    He's a gimmick/2nd string QB at best...... and right now, the 4th best QB on this team.

    Unless I hear White is switching positions, it's just hard to get excited about this kid.... I can't see taking the ball out of Henne's hands and putting into White's....
     
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  28. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    "no more speed I'm almost there"
     
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  29. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    Not too shabby looking for a White quarterback.
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The most glaring mistake to me is that play's are not being designed with Pat and Ronnie on the field together...for the life of me, and for over a year, I cannot conceptualize the schematic logic. The only thing I can come up with, is ronnie does not have the speed to run the jet sweep, which is true, but there's got to be other ways to get them on the field together.
     
  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Which Ronnie shouldn't have to do, White should line up at Wr and run the end around, giving him a pass or run option, to me that would be a simple and effective play, if they come up to tackle him, he throws the ball, if they play flat down the LOS he turns on the jets and picks up yds on the ground.

    Run it to the wideside of the field.
     
  32. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    well he was never drafted to be a starting QB. He was drafted to add a passing component to the wildcat and be a legitimate backup quality QB. He can be both those things. Would I have used a 2nd rounder for that combination....no (4th rounder sure), but if he develops into what he can be, he'll be a valuable piece of our offense. He'll be alot better this year. He was just too small last year and he played like a deer in the headlights. Him hitting the weights is a good sign that he wont be scared this year
     
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  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    exactly, he needs to overtake that spot from ricky because of the possibilities that it could represent for the wildcat offense.....if he can't do that job, and we can't scheme that, then fuc# him, fuc# that, and Fu#@ the Diaz brothers.

    Bottom line is if this kid can run the jet while ronnie is handling the ball, then the safety cannot just explode towards the LOS, he must respect the threat of the pass from white, which in turn gives Ronnie more space, its also a way to use Brandon Marshall within the wildcat offense...one time, he pretends he's engaging the corner to block, the corner see's ronnie running the cat, the corner cheats up to take on the run, Pat takes the sweep from ronnie, Brandon disengages the block, run's deep, Pat throws him the stinkin ball...one time is all that it will take to truly optimize this offense. This play needs to happen to stretch the wildcat offense.

    To me, it's the most elementary was to use Pat white....
     
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  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Disagree Adamp, there are many things that can be said about Pat White's play last season, deer in the headlights wasn't one of them.

    I do think he was not up to NFL game speed, but consider the situations that he was placed into games, off the bench late in games, for a single play, how would he be accustomed to game speed?
     
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  35. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    i definitely saw a nervous kid out there. Just because he tucked it and ran doesnt mean he wasnt terrified. You could see it in his face. he got a little bolder at the end of the year and that got him knocked out which is why I like the fact he came back this year bulked up.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nobody but a few seem to take into account that Pat did not make 1 mistake last year, not 1 boneheaded move..This after be put in situations that no other player has ever been put in during the modern era.. and he did'nt screw up, and actually executed a few drives during that kind of hi stress situation..The way I look at it is this, anything he does this year, is gonna be cake for him, because of what he dealt with last year. The dude was literally thrown into a whirlwind of action and speed.

    such a great point about being accustomed to game speed...Yeah Pat, we want you to come in late 4th quarter, in the red zone, completely cold, execute, and look up to speed doing so..

    That randomness and pressure he faced last year should really elevate his game this year...I know he's not ever going to be accurate, so the design of the offense is crucial...Just use the athlete with an arm, and fit that skillset into the wildcat.
     
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  37. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    hehe racism
     
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  38. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Eh, I saw the same guy pick up a first down on the final drive on MNF that I watched in week #14 against the Titans with 15 seconds left on a 2pt conversion out of the WC.

    Now physically I watched a player who lacked either decisiveness or speed as a runner, he sort of picked his way through holes instead of hitting them hard, imho that is due to not developing his running back skillz not fear.
     
  39. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    thats where we disagree. that hesitation to me was fear. just to be clear, i dont see fear as being a bad thing. i think its normal for rookies
     
  40. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    He was expected to drop back, hesitate as if he were going to pass, then run, it did not take long for Defenses to learn White was not going to throw the ball.

    They crashed the LOS and White had little room to run.
     
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