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Who are the overrated players in Miami??

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan7171, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    yet, for all you know you could be underrating him. He could turn out to be a player that goes beyond a hall of famer and redefines the position.
     
  2. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    How long somebody has played is irrelevant. The question was what players are over rated. If you rate somebody as great when they haven't shown that yet then you are over rating that player. It's silly to try and pretend that a young player can't be over rated.

    And Hartline has shown some potential, but there were people who claimed we didn't need a #1 WR this off season b/c we had Hartline. That was clearly over rating him. Fortunately, the Dolphin's FO was more reasonable.

    Davis didn't just give up plays, he gave up more than just about any starter in the league. Most fans don't realize that and place much more emphasis on his big plays.
     
  3. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Who then?
     
  4. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I can't find it now, but I saw a great breakdown by KC Joyner on CBs. IIRC by his metrics, Davis was below W. Allen, Smith and Jones for the Dolphins. If somebody can find it, I'd love to see it again.

    And I don't want this to come off as if I dislike Davis. IMO our starting CBs could potentially be the best in the league eventually. I think it's unlikely that Davis and Smith will grow up enough to fit that description this year, I think it would be over rating them to say that, but I certainly think they have the physical talent.
     
  5. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    nobody overrated on our underrated team
     
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  6. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    I bet padre says bess.

    Crowder is my pick his paycheck is overpaid for his contribution imo.
     
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  7. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I love Vontae. He's a playmaker. And not just picks. Hits, forced fumbles and ST plays as well. He's physical, doesn't back down, and doesn't go into a shell when he's beaten. Youre right, he gives up a lot of plays. But I cant name another team in the league that put thier corners in press coverage as much as Miami, without having a relentless pass rush or a reliable FS to protect them. Its almost like the coaches purposely threw the Rooks into the fire, we'll see if it pays off or not. Both VD and Sean have things they need to work on, but I think Vontae was our best guy last year. Will Allen was not having a good year before the injury, I really didnt see much of a drop off with him out of there. And Sean Smith? I'm going to grow gray hairs watching that guy play. So often in position, so seldom making the play :pity:.
     
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  8. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Do not agree at all. It is 100% relevant. It is silly to say a young player is overrated or underrated. How do you rate potential? It is a waste of time. Unless there is a body of work to actually rate them with that is substantial.
     
  9. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    How much do you think he makes? I'm asking b/c I really don't know. I do know that in 2009 his base salary was the 6th highest among LBs. Ayodele, Porter and Torbor are gone now though. If the salary numbers increased consistently, I would expect him to be below, Dansby and Anderson this year as the 3rd highest paid starting LB. I expect that Misi will start at SOLB but he will be on his rookie contract so it should be pretty low.
     
  10. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    Among the fanbase?

    Henne
    Cam Wake
    Vontae Davis & Shawn Smith
     
  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Actually...no.

    The problem is, we don't have any "rated" players, let alone overrated ones..:D

    I do think Big Jake is massively taken for granted among "us" and the SFL media.

    Seriously, when was there a single thread about Big Jake allowing 3 sacks all season? Back to back Pro Bowls? I also think YBell is also massively underrated, he has led the DPhins in tackles for 2 consecutive seasons, and yet..no love for the Bullfrog.

    As for "overrated"..Chad Henne, but in the sense that he has only started 13 games, it is a bit early to annoint him the next great Dolphins Qb.
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    http://insider.espn.go.com/fantasy/....go.com/fantasy/football/ffl/story?id=4647597

    The rest of the article is ESPN insider stuff Rafi, though I recall that being posted as well, it could be up in Club.
     
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  13. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    2/25/2009: Signed a three-year, $13.8 million contract. Not sure on bonuses or how much each season. I haven't forgot his mouth this last off season with Joey Porter. Kinda got under my skin i think he should've been more for the team as a whole not on the Porter wagon.
     
  14. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    I guessed wrong on Bess when i seen the thread first thing i thought was that so i had to say it.

    You are right on Jake we kind of take this big guy for granted a bit much.
     
  15. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bess, Vontae, and to a certain extent even Henne.

    I would throw in Brandon Marshall only because I disagree with a lot of posters who think he's top 3. But he's awesome so I'll leave him out. I just think he's less awesome than a lot of people may say.
     
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  16. findifference

    findifference Member

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    I'm not dissing Miami's RB's but in any other situation I don't think they would be as good. How would Ronnie have been without the birth of the wildcat? How good would Ricky's production be without the great O line he has here? I wouldn't call R and R overrated, just beneficiaries.
     
  17. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to consider a player great for them to be overrated. If perception of a player is that he is average when he is actually awful then he is overrated.

    Overrated= when the perception of the quality of a player is higher than the actual quality of a player
     
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  18. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I agree with that, I was just giving an example. I had even typed out the definition for a later post, but then decided just to leave the thread rather than try to explain the obvious concept that it's possible to have an inaccurate perception (too high or too low) of the quality of a rookie.
     
  19. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

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    Why does everyone dump on Fasano??? He had a GREAT year in 08! 09 he had a bad game Week 1 and lost some confidence. Then they keep him in to block too much, as said by coach, and he gets hurt. I'll go ahead and claim him as Comeback Player of the Year for the Dolphins.
     
  20. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    I agreed... I've decided that you're probably one of the most unbiased posters on here. Everyone has some sort of bias, but everytime you post... I see very little.

    I would likely add Davone Bess to the list. I feel he's a good player and very good at playing to his strengths... I don't think he's as spectacular as some people think though.
     
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  21. Merauder

    Merauder Perseverance

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    Crowder is the first that comes to mind. He is decent against the run and that's about it. He isn't a good pass rusher, pass defender and he barely ever makes big plays or stops. But....he's good at teaching people how to leave the scene of an accident after a night of binge drinking at 4:30am though. Next up I would have to say Starks. Yes he has made some great plays in his brief time in Miami, but lets hold on a second here. He is switching to DT and nobody really knows what to expect. It's a big question mark right now, and I think the defensive line is going to be a bigger liability this season than most people think. Seems like a lot of people are focusing on safety (which obviously is a legitimate concern) as the only vulnerable position. I have faith that this season will be successful but there are a few question marks on defense. Not just one.
     
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  22. Slappy

    Slappy The legend

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    fergie and marc anthony
     
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  23. Slappy

    Slappy The legend

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    i gotta defend my cousin here wasnt it 2 seasons ago he tied team record for recieving td's in a seasson? that same season only gonzo and gates had more he does need to get better not dropping catchable balls tho he blocks well which doesnt show up on the stats sheet just sayin is all
     
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  24. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're saying you just don't like Crowder much. You're obviously entitled to that opinion, but I'm not sure that has anything to do with whether or not a player is over or under rated.

    That's actually what it seems many people are posting, a list of which players they don't like rather than a list of over rated players.
     
  25. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Parcells.........the pressure is on you, till you deliver....this is the call-out you need. Everyone will thank me once you deliver.

    Woot.....I know you can!
     
  26. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I disagree with you about Langford. If anything, he's underrated.
     
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  27. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Actually Aqua, K Langford is vastly underrated:



    Starks: 36 tckls/7 scks/10 qb hits/15 pressures/37 stops

    Langford:34 tckls/2 scks/4 hits/15 Qb pressures/1 bp/33 stops


    Similar, the difference in the passrushing numbers boils down to Starks playing on the nickel passrush line next to Cameron Wake.
     
  28. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    IMO it's silly because they were first year players that were basically on their own due to the poor play from the safeties. Those two guys were in man coverage quite a bit last season and if anyone didn't expect them to make mistakes, then they had high expectations IMO. They are young guys who are still developing. For all the crap that Sean Smith gets, he was pretty good last year and it was only his third season as a cornerback. He had some issues but that was expected. Vontae Davis has gotten some crap too but he's a guy who everybody knew had to polish his game as he was rough around the edges coming out of Illinois.
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    He's the De on the Te side of the formation, meaning he more or less is a stay at home player.

    Hmm, Starks played 140 plays more than Langford (in nickel rush duty I'd think as Wake had around that many snaps) are you thinking of Merling maybe?

    I agree on the Cb's though, Smith and Davis were toasted, trucked, fooled and targeted for the 10 games or so they were Starters together in 09.
     
  30. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Vontae Davis - Nice rookie season, but gave up way to many big plays to be getting the kind of praise he has been getting around here. He helped win us some games with big plays. Unfortunately he negated those by giving up huge plays in other games.

    Now I wouldn't be so far to say Big Jake is overrated. Because he's not. But his value to this team is overrated if that makes any sense at all. People think he's more important to our team than the QB, and I don't believe that for a second.
     
  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Would not surprise me to see SS wind up as the Free Safety this yr alen.

    Today is Smith b-day and VD mentioned something about "they have a present waiting for you at Training Camp"..:shifty:
     
  32. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Smith is more of a finesse guy Pod. He is not physical enough to play FS. Leave him at CB and let him develop there.
     
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  33. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Nah, we need a playmaking FS Killah, and if Will Allen comes back at 100% to me it is a natural move.
     
  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, I happen to be real high on Andrew Gardner, the LT from GT who we kept on the active roster all of 09, he was all ACC..in two completely different offenses, from Chan Gailey's passing attack to Johnson's Triple Option, and he had a bad shoulder and didn't miss a game.

    A yr of just football and lifting and working with Sparano and Gugs, he is a player to watch imho.
     
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  35. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Disagree man you have to keep some players in their position and let them develop. No one knows if W Allen will even be healthy or how long he will be here. I'm against bouncing guys around out of need. That's not productive at all. In your scenario who would be the nickel CB?
     
  36. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    This. :up:
     
  37. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    -Nolan's D worked with Renaldo Hill at FS...Smith for his flaws is a much better athlete..

    -Who will play the Nickel? #32 of course...
     
  38. funkdat

    funkdat New Member

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    Tim Dobbins.

    He's a special teams guy that has only started for two coaching staffs when the real starter went down.

    Yet people are picking him to start over a guy that has had 3 coaching staffs pick as a starter.

    If that's not being overrated then what is.

    I get that Channing Crowder is not great but i also get he's better then another teams backup.
     
  39. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    Incognito. Bills let him walk and now he start right away. I hope it works out.
     
  40. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Sean Smith is not even our most physical corner and now you want him to be the FS? Are you nuts? Nevermind rhetorical question. :lol:
    I just believe if you go bouncing these guys around you limit chemistry. We are a young team. Have to let these guys dig in and develop. I really don't see SS moving. As for J Allen I like him as a backup CB and if W Allen were to go down there he would fill in okay in the nickel but full time. That is one scary scenario bro.

    Status quo. Smith stays at CB ,WA at nickel. Still not ruling out Culver at FS sometime during the season.
     

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