If one of the young fast players show promise, it would be a perfect upgrade for the #4 WR. Miami will be a better team because of it. I will always vote for Miami being a better team.
An offense with no one able to chase off the safety, we need an Alvin Harper type JS, and this is sort of what I'm speaking about, a complacency now that Marshall is here. We still lack a legit threat in that 20-30yd range from the LoS, a David Martin if you will, and Fasano is no DMart, if anything he is more of the same type of Receiver. Yes, yes we do, even with BMarsh this is essentially the same Wr/Te corps we've had for the last two seasons, minus the speed of Ginn. Keep your head in the sand long enough and that will happen now won't it.. I missed your comment about I did not want to upgrade the Wr corps this year, I did start the thread about the Offense Wr Corps being fine without Brandon Marshall this year, however now that we have Marshall you have to fill in around him BMarsh and Hartline and 2 possession type Wr and blocking Te's is not really what I had in mind. It can work the problem is we run the ball, allowing defenders to basically only cover a 20 yd square box due to no speed at Wr and Te could become a problem.
Now I'll agree we need a TE........I'll even agree it would have been nice to acquire another play maker at WR, "Nice"...... not "need" as we needed a true number 1 WR. We've got to make sure we can keep Marshall in line, adding T.O. to the mix just seems like asking for trouble..... It's not like this team isn't loaded with offensive talent.... I'll make a deal with ya..... we'll cut Turner, add T.O. and give him Pat White's roster spot
A playmaker would be great, I was thinking more along the lines of a credible deep threat. As of right now, the biggest unknown player is Kory Sperry, he had a nice game against Tampa but as per usual with Sparano, he was then buried somewhere unknown in Davie. A seam busting Te moots this whole conversation. The best argument as to why TO shouldn't be brought in, even at the Vet minimum, however at some point Marshall will have to be a Grown Up all on his ownself. Eh, too much of the same sort of talent though JS solid citizens with vanilla skills, it would be certainly better if the OP included "Camarillo was 2nd in the NFL in TD's 30 yds or more" instead of "Camarillo catches everything". Such is life though. Great, we then keep White as TO takes Turner's roster spot, White keeps his. Good doin' bidness with ya JS...
We just need him to convert, not break off huge plays or beat the defense over the top. Just get beyond the sticks and catch the pass. Simple enough. Just be our Troy Brown/Kevin Faulk (in late-down situations).
ALWAYS look for upgrades. At every position. You dont have to break bank to do it, but allowing our young guys shots to prove themselves to take over a spot should always be an option. Cammy had a great year. But honestly, he made few big plays. Id rather have a home run hitter in the mix than another player that is a carbon copy of Bess.
or be our Bess? You can repeat all you want about how he converts 3rd downs and has great hands, but so does bess....and Marshall...and hartline. all those passes that went for 5-10 yards for cammy just for a first could be big plays from hartline or marshall. Im not saying what he does is useless, but when you have what we have at our other 3 WR spots, you dont need him. imo we need speed and big play ability.
And Greg C is really good at doing that, so is DBess, so is Anthony Fasano, so is Brandon Marshall and that is sort of my point, someone has to be the big play threat via their speed mismatch. Otherwise passing pattern are all within 20 yds of the LoS, the offense knows it, the defense knows it, when Ronnie or Ricky get the ball that 20 yd an in box is all the defense has to worry about with Brandon Marshall being double teamed. Hopefully Hartline is that guy as whomever is the #2 will face single coverage.
The comparisons are there for me because of body control, hands, and route running, of course he's not as good, but their there imo..
They'd have kept Ginn if they felt that's what we need atm Who's to say we don't have that in Hartline?
Sure, I've compared Cammy to JT Smith, Erik Marten and Derrick Martin (look them up..) good possession Wr's who average about 800 or 900 yds per year, anywhere from 70 to 100 catches, and maybe 5 Td's. The problem is, they all played on bad teams and those teams had no other option but to use them as #1 or #2 Wr's.
0-7 yards 32 rec 351 yards, 11.0 average, 18 1st downs, 56.2% 8-14 yards 14 rec 159 yards 11.4 average 8 1st downs, 57.1% 15+ 4 rec 42 yards 10.5 average 3 1st downs, 75% Quit hating.
Err, Trowa, not sure what you intended to show with those stats, the majority of his receptions are for under 10 yds, as in it is not even close. I'd bet his YAC is not very healthy either.
I won't quibble with the 2yrd overlap in your stats, but if the point is Camarillo is not going to convert a 3rd and 15, it would seem to stand up to scrutiny no?
what the hell is it that we all are arguing? My point is that Cam would make every NFL roster in the league..The same people who are hating on him now, were the same ones who said he was the odd man out 2, 3 months ago...Thats what is BS... the man is not going anywhere, and will legitimately compete for the position opposite of Marshall..
3rd and 15 is quite different from 3rd and 8+ which Dupree asserted. Obviously Camarillo had 3 catches for 1st downs over 15 yards last year. Which isn't great but show me a WR in the NFL who consistently converts 3rd and 15s.
maybe we should read the thread title again...best hands in THE NFL?, if thats a legitimate question, then maybe he deserves more respect then what he is receiving. Last 7 minutes of the jet game on monday nite...nuff said.
I agree wholeheartedly on this opinion. They're both about the same "style" of player... Bess is a little more shifty, but doesn't have the best hands... Cam isn't as quick as Bess, but he catches everything. I really like both of them for what they bring to the team, but if I had to make a choice: I'll take the guy catching everything.
He doesn't drop passes EVER and he doesn't fumble EVER, has heart and toughness etc etc... so why DOESN'T Camarillo have 100 catches in a year? Why was Bess targeted most last year?
Greg C was coming back from the ACL and he was not targeted earlier in the year, the bloggers (mainly Omark) kept blathering about Greg C not creating seperation and Fred Barnett had the same thing happen to him back in the day blah blah blah.
IMO "T.O." stands for "timed out". The shine went off this glory boy years ago. This regime hates big names and the egos that accompany them. The only big name we had on this team was JT. (now Marshall) Let Rex Ryan try and corral all of these massive egos into a winner, because it cannot happen. I'd take Camarillo all day long over the "Dion like" ME, ME, ME players.
Which would be a good thing, if Chad Pennington's touch/timing skill set was playing Qb, but we have Laser Arm at Qb now, the area of the field that can be attacked is now extended outwards Deej, the offense has to have the skillsets to take advantage of the situation. The little 8 yd hook route should be replaced by a 20 yd out pattern or a 40 yd or more out and up pattern as Henne can easily make that throw.
I'm not comfortable with the completion percentage of those long throws. I'll take the 8-yarders every day with our running game.
Henne is far better suited to pushing the ball downfield than playing the Chad Pennington dink and dunk role. That and when the Defense knows they only have that 20 yd box to defend your running game and short passing game is not likely to produce large gains as the Safeties do not have to aware of a deep threat getting behind them. Only when that happens will the Offense move into "advance in the playoffs" type status imho.
The man came off an acl tear in 6 months, and didnt miss a practice, a game, or a pass..quantify that?
now thats a point that I can see...With Henne, you wanna use and threat all quarters of the field...does Cam have the quickness to get out there and run the routes that coincide with henne's talents?...we'll see, but I do think that he's such an effective and efficient route runner, he just does'nt waste any space..I think this could be an instance where speed is overrated.
To me, Greg C is in trouble not due to TO being available but due to Brian Hartline and his 16.6 ypc, almost 5 yds more everytime Hartline touches the ball over Greg C is production that the Coaches won't overlook, they really cannot overlook it. Greg C is a NFL caliber player no doubt about it, however I can easily see him being passed if one of the youngsters (or TO) show they can just be more productive and AS reliable. If RGM/Pruitt/Johnson/Roberto Wallace (whom is intriguing at 6'4 230)/Marlon Moore/Pat Turner shine, Greg Camarillo could be in trouble unless he shows more of a burst. I dig Greg C's all around game, his hands, his football IQ (I've never seen Cammy run a pattern 1yd short on 3rd down), his blocking, the guy is good, but not so good that he cannot be replaced with someone with those attributes plus better speed and big play ability.
man are you frustrating on this topic, In one sentence you point out the game of Greg C, and right after you bring up the likes of James pruitt replacing him, if he steps up.......no, not even if james pruitt or marlon moore, or johnson step up....Greg C is a pivital piece to this team...not so easily replaceble as you make it out to be.