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Sparano is messin up with his mancrush on Pat Cobbs

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Jun 3, 2010.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thed...hins-mini-camp-and-ota-bonanza/#comment-45187

    My first real calling out of HC Sparano, this is just a serious error in judgment.

    Cobbs as:

    WC: Dude was so slow he was caught from behind on a sweep, that is how his ACL was torn

    Primary Kickoff returner: He averaged 22 ypa, but in reality his slow *** required fake reverses to Ted Ginn to have any return over 25yds, Ginn won't be here to be a decoy, he offers not a damn thing as a returner save for..he can catch the ball cleanly...oh joy.

    Gunner on Coverage units: Dude has 17 tackles in 2 years, in 08 when the coverage teams were atrocious, he had 14...Lex Hilliard had 13 in 09..

    Backup Rb: he has a whopping 33 carries in his carrier.

    Sparano seems to fail to realize that a mediocre player who does several things will do them in a mediocre manner, meanwhile for all the talk of "progress stoppers" on the Defense in 09, he once again doesn't quite apply that same standard to small, slow, Cobbs.

    You messin' up Tony.
     
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  2. Phinatic425

    Phinatic425 MIA State of Mind

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    As long as Grice-Mullen is still there when Sparano realizes Cobbs is not a good returner I'm fine.

    BTW why does Tony like slow KR/PR??? Davone isn't a good returner at all IMO. He muffed it too much, I love him in the slot though don't get me wrong.
     
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  3. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Apparently, it's not that Sparano is looking for slow guys, he's looking for physically tough guys who are elusive. The criteria seems to be thick lower legs. Parcells apparently believes that guys with thick lower legs are good returners and has convinced Sparano of that belief.
     
  4. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Have to disagree with you on this. First, this is the same Cobbs that caught a 53 yard pass for a TD out of the Wildcat, and took a screen 80 yards for a TD, right? Cobbs is far from slow. Not sure what sweep play you are referring to, but saying Cobbs was slow before the injury is just flat out incorrect.

    He is not a good KR, and I will give you that all day, no doubt. And he is not a burner. But he has plenty of speed. Not as much as you want in a KR... but as far a RB, hes plenty fast. And in the Wildcat, not only was he effective in it, but also was a VERY good blocker for us.

    And who would Cobbs be "progress stopping"? Lex Hillard? Eh. I dont think theres much there to stop...


    I dont want Cobbs anywhere near the Kick Return team, unless its blocking. But he is a nice little player to have on your team otherwise...
     
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  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Tried to give the job to Chris Williams last year and it bounced off his face
     
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  6. Phinatic425

    Phinatic425 MIA State of Mind

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    Did he not learn anything from last year?
     
  7. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Uh, sort of the only other time he's had a reverse out of the Wildcat he had a 44-yard touchdown.


    This might be the only thing in the thread I can possibly agree with you on.


    And....?

    He's done what with them?

    And where's your analysis of his receiving skills, while you're at it?

    I agree if by "mediocre" you mean "consistently well".

    He's been an excellent change of pace rusher, and he's a better receiving option than Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams, and a solid special teams player.

    You're barking up the wrong tree, on the wrong block, in the wrong city, maybe even the wrong planet.
     
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  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    He is quite slow, one was a WC play, and screens work off of timing more than speed.




    Good enough of a blocker to take an additional 300 yds in returns or any realistic chance of a TD on a return?


    Hillard, Sheets, guys with actual physical talent..

    To compete we need players who can pressure the opponent at every opportunity, from returning kicks to taking a simple swing pass to the house, Cobbs doesn't offer that, if Sparano wants a mediocre player who does several jobs at a low level, fine, but he is messing up in doing so.

    Cobbs is a bit like putting Dubs on a Prious, then running errands in it, it's still a Prious, there is only so much one can do with it.
     
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  9. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Both the Wildcat pass and the screen in that Texans game went for exactly 80 yards, I believe.
     
  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I love Cobbs, however he is replacable
     
  11. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lex Hilliard's entire claim to fame is that he was a solid receiver at this point, something he doesn't even do as well as Cobbs.

    Kory Sheets is a guy whose name you've heard before, that's it.

    He is better than any of the backs currently on the roster at this. **** Lex Hilliard and Kory Sheets, I'm talking Ricky Williams and Ronnie Brown.
     
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  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Padre is fired up baby, I like that kinda party, lol...

    If cobsy makes this team, then say goodbye to your boy Sheets brother..

    I happen to think Tony has seen Kory flash, but is purposely keeping low key at this point til the pads come on.

    Right now, our return game is our biggest weakness imo, huge part of the game with a FAT ? attached to it..
     
  13. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And against the Jets he was caught from behind on a reverse and his knee was shredded, he doesn't have the speed to turn that corner against a good defense.

    IIRC he scored in 08 on the Seahawks and KC wasn't it?

    Change of pace rusher meaning "he really doesn't offer much of a threat, but Sparano likes him" if one means that then I'm on board.

    Decent ST player? He had 13 tackles all season in 08 and the ST was terrible, Hilliard had 13 tackles on ST after he went down in week 4, in less time he had the same ST production.

    And that is what I'm speaking on, Cobbs is "nice', much better can be done than him in every phase of the game, nothing in his game stands out save for "coaches pet".
     
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  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    This annoys me greatly Deej, Sparano having 'big plans' for a player who doesn't do anything well, meanwhile the returner role just lost a pro bowl caliber returner and Sparano is speaking about "big plans for Cobbs"?

    WTH?

    Cat is 5'9, ran a 4.7 on his pro day, and weighs 205 and is coming off a ACL and now he is Kevin Faulk?

    Please.
     
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  15. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Well, I dont know how we can find ground on this. I cant see where you are coming from with this at all. Slow for a KR? Ya. Slow for a RB? Absolutely not. Hes quite quick for a RB.

    In very limited opportunities in 2008, he had 3 40+ yard plays. And he only got 10 touches before getting hurt in 2009.


    I said I DONT want him on returns? I think I've said that repeatedly. He is NOT a good KR. He is NOT fast enough for KR. He is NOT a threat to take it to the house on KR. I thought I made that clear. I dont want him on returns.


    Hillard? Really? I have 2 guys for you. One has averaged 3.9 ypcarry and 7.9 ypcatch in his career, and the other one has averaged 5.2 ypcarry and 13.3 ypcatch in his career. Not a hard choice, right? Exactly...

    Sheets? Hes done literally nothing in this league... dont know if I or anyone could say he has more talent than Cobbs. What are you basing that on? When have you even seen Sheets play? College? He couldnt even get on the field when we were devastated at the RB position... and really needed someone to spell Ricky. Yet, Sheets couldnt even got on the field.


    We do need players who can pressure the opponent returning kicks. We REALLY need a good KR, and right now I dont think we have one on the roster unless that RGM kid pans out. As far as a RB... if you're saying we need a CJ Spiller... I dont really agree with that. Should we cut Ronnie and Ricky too? They've had big plays like on a swing pass to the house at a FAR lesser percentage of their touches than Cobbs.

    With comments like "You know, with actual physical talent", and "wanting a mediocre player who does several jobs at a low level"... I dont think we are ever going to see eye to eye on this.

    I cant even understand where you're coming from with this...
     
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  16. Wildcat23

    Wildcat23 Here kitty kitty

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    sheets>cobbs.(potential)

    I love the guy but honestly he wasnt missed much after his injury last season. I dont see how hes a big change of pace back with ricky and ronnie, they seem more or less the same types of runners to me. sheets would be our change of pace back.
     
  17. mustang20241

    mustang20241 New Member

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    I think Cobbs adds a nice element to the team. Losing him and Ronnie hurt us down the stretch. He is capable of the big play. Probably not from the KR standpoint though.

    We need a guy who can burn there. Thats why I always chose Ginn over what ever was back there.

    I dont think Tony is using him as a primary player. He's a guy that can do anything. He's our frikin 3rd string! Hes not going to get 10 carries a game. I do hope he doesnt start at KR though, that would be just plain terrible.
     
  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The one way I could see Sparano doing that is "if' keeping Cobbs on Returns means Pat White stays a Dolphin, Cobbs would fill the role that a KR only would fill, freeing a space for White.

    But I'd dislike the thought of withdrawing from big play ability at the Returner position, but if Roster Politics means Pat White then I'd hold my nose.

    Or at least hope Hartline shows some explosiveness and wins that role.
     
  19. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I doubt there is any common ground to be found FN, and "yes' I do think Sheets is far more of a playmaker than Cobbs will ever be.

    I sort of thinks Hilliard can outplay Cobbs if given the chance, but I'm not as certain of it as a I am of Sheets, who is raw as a all around Rb as Sparano mentioned, there is more to the job than hitting the edge of the defense with speed, they have to block and cover kicks etc.

    Sheets couldn't do any of those things in 09, which is why he only had one carry.


    But unless Sheets has a chance to do those jobs, Sparano is being premature.
     
  20. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Where have you seen Sheets play that has given you such a conviction about the guy?

    And what about Cobb's production per touch don't you like?
     
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  21. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ive' seen some Purdue games , and the youtube stuff, and Sparano praising his speed "he can really really run".

    His production was in 2008, prior to the ACL, and I'd seen enough of his return effort to know I'm not enthralled with it.

    And I know with Ginn gone, if Sparano had his druthers he would be more than happy to hand Cobbs the returner job as he did in early 09.
     
  22. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    You can't be serious?

    THIS annoys you........ but building an entire package around a player as limited as Pat White, excites you?

    Hell I'd build that package around Cobbs before I'd build it around MildPat
     
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  23. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Yes, it does, they gave away Ginn who was a good Kr, now planning for Cobbs to fill in just seems unwise, and flaccid.

    Say what one will about White, he did led the NCAA in rushing, there is reason to believe he can perform at a high level in the NFL, Cobbs inspires no such confidence in his performance.
     
  24. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Cobbs is one of the harder working players on this squad (pound for pound); has been for years. This early in kr evaluations he's earned the first look in my book.
     
  25. Wildcat23

    Wildcat23 Here kitty kitty

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    That he hasnt touched it many times. A lot of these huge plays were from the wildcat when people were getting befuddled by it weekly. This is the same argument many people have against Charlie Anderson yet Cobbs can have a ew big plays and hes awesome because he can do this on few snaps, but Anderson has a few big plays and he is nothing because he only does it on a few snaps.....:no:



    Like I said, I love the player, but he can be replaced. Just because he CAN do all these jobs on the field doesnt mean he should...Wes Welker kicked an extra point(FG?) for us before.....hes not the Kicker up in New England.
     
  26. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    While I'm no fan of making Cobbs a return man, he's a hell of a lot better "NFL" player than White will likely ever be. One of them is a wasted roster spot...........and it's not Cobbs.

    Complaining about his man crush on Cobbs seems silly when he's making a MUCH bigger mistake in devoting so much time to a guy that he should have never drafted in the first place.

    Cobbs has done well for us and has been a great 3rd string RB..... if he's here, it won't be because the FO kept him just to keep from admitting a mistake.
     
  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    you do not know that.
     
  28. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    That's what she said!


    ...I'm sorry I couldn't help it... carry on...
     
  29. Wildcat23

    Wildcat23 Here kitty kitty

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    Well he did say likely. And I probably think this will come out as truth. I still have hope for White though.
     
  30. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think if White was developed as a Cobbs like player in some areas he would do better and in tackling and blocking he would do worse.
     
  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    In 52 plays you know this?

    A Rook qb has 52 plays, 5 passes, and now he is a mistake?

    Qb's are far far more valuable to develop than 3rd string mediocre Running Backs, if one does not, or cannot acknowledge that fact o' life in the NFL then there is really nothing to discuss on this one JS.
     
  32. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Give White the 3yrs Cobbs has had in the NFL then there is some basis to make the comparison.
     
  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Cobbs is in his 6th year.

    In his first two, honestly he looked like a preseason player. Did nothing his first two years.
     
  34. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    You keep going back to the return man thing. If that's you're issue, then we aren't in disagreement. I hate him as a KR. But as a RB and STer? He's a nice player to have.
     
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  35. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Hey Jetssuck.......pat white (pffft!):tantrum:
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Here is the thing, they will use Cobbs as the KR simply because they can save a roster spot or two via having Cobbs on the roster and NOT keeping the RGM's or Sheet's and training other players to do the jobs that Cobbs does.

    So rather than have Sheets or RGM as the returner and WC player, and having Greg C play gunner, they simply will keep Cobbs, lose the production, but then keep the roster spots open.

    As a #3 Rb a 5'9 205 Rb fits what they do? Ronnie's injury history is well known, Ricky wore down, that leaves P Cobbs as the feature back?

    Does that make sense? Cobbs as the #3rb/Kr with two players ahead of him who are likely to get dinged as the season rolls along..
     
  37. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    But White will not be allowed even 1/3 of that amount of time to develop.

    That drives me nutz.
     
  38. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    First, I am NOT calling Cobbs irreplaceable, lol. Far from it. Hes a 3rd string RB.

    However, hes a nice little piece to have, and I do feel we missed him last year.

    And his 80 yard TD wasnt from the WC... it was from a screen out of base offense.
     
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  39. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    OK, well now your whole arguement is getting around the KR duties, which we were never in disagreement about.


    And about the bolded... I dont think making Sheets the "feature back" makes any more sense. However, I dont see Cobbs as that. I would have seen Cobbs spell Ricky last year, so he didnt wear down. Under no circumstance would I ever have Cobbs take more carries than Ronnie or Ricky if either was healthy, but he can spell for you.

    But I dont think the #3 RB needs to also be the KR. The 5th WR spot could easily be that was well, along with a DB...
     
  40. Wildcat23

    Wildcat23 Here kitty kitty

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    Never said ALL his plays were from the Wildcat. But yes, hes a great 3rd RB and a hell of a hard worker.
     
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