http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thed...learned-some-valuable-lessons-this-offseason/ Well, that is a start, you can tell PW has added weight and looks more athletic than he did last season at this time, but I don't think his transformation into a NFLer is complete. Dude dropping a Jay-Z line to the same media types that will ask him question as long as he is in Miami is not very wise, not that there is anything wrong with it, however they were looking for a canned answer about hardwork and studying etc etc. After the Twitter stuff he should have learned a bit.
I don't know how you can't love Pat White. Great guy, hard worker. Despite some of our expectations last year, he's someone who is a project. Hopefully we can start to see some of the things we all expected to happen last year in this coming season.
I still don't see the use of Pat White unless he can gain some accuracy. If he can't even throw out of the "pistol", then we might as well be running the wildcat or something other with Thigpen.
I hope he does well so we won't have wasted another in a long line of 2nd-round picks practically thrown away. I just don't see it.
Not all of the practices have been open to the media or public, and sparano is claiming he hitting a 60% clip. What impresses me a bit more is the weight gain, is he really did put on 18 pds (could be a case of the Combine +8) then White should be around 200 pds maybe a bit higher. He needs more power and explosiveness if he is to do more in the WC.
well at least he's putting in the effort. that is definately good to know. Hopefully we can use him in some wildcat formations getting him to throw the ball a bit this year.
I'd like to see them find a good useful spot for him. I think he has a certain intelligence and quick nimbleness that can be valuable. Just need to find a way to use that productively. His improving his throwing skills is very nice to read.
If what sparano is saying about his accuracy is true than this could be promising because that, along with his size, was the most important thing for him to improve.
My first problem with Pat White is this, whenever he comes on the field he's going to be replacing a player who's better than he is. My second problem is this, it'll take alot of practice time to get his package game speed ready, and thats taking reps away from Henne, Thigpen, Ronnie's WC package etc. We have a legitimate offense now, with a realistic chance of being dominant, the Pat Cat is not worth the effort IMO.
There were just too many disappointments with this kid last year for me. Until I see something different, he was a wasted pick. And as others mentioned, getting this project ready is too costly to the development of the other real QBs. I'm not knocking his heart, his drive or desire to play ball. I'm knocking the Troika for taking an experimental player at #44. A decent 2nd year SOLB would look a lot better than a project player who has only proven that he doesn't yet have a position in the NFL....
"But through the first two days of mini-camp, the Dolphins have given White most of the second-team reps, while Pennington has barely thrown a pass." This statement was pretty concerning... I was expecting Thigpen to be getting the second-team reps... I haven't seen much on how the qb reps are working - anyone know anything on that? Hopefully we're getting Thigpen some work. We better not be thinking of dropping Thigpen for White to get down to 3 qb's.
We've discussed this a lot on this board. That seems exactly what they are looking at. After all, they spent the #44 overall pick on White. I guess it doesn't matter that he doesn't yet have a position, but they seem to be determined to give him every opportunity, even at the expense of a potentially better prospect at QB in Thigpen...too bad..I like to see guys get fair shots...doesn't appear to be happening so far...
However, this is mini-camp. It is not training camp. They could be doing a very thorough evaluation of White and his present capabilities and future potential before they begin the in-depth preparation for the season in August. The purpose could be to find out NOW whether it appears the experiment may produce the desired results. If there is no substantial improvement at this point, why continue? If there is.....that possibly means another year of, IMO, wasted space on the roster and the probable loss of a better #2 QB - but that is just my opinion.
To me, the issue DolFans are missing with Pat White is that he must improve his running skills first and foremost, to me that is Capt Obvious stuff. Here is why: Pat has to be able to run the ball between the tackles effectively out of the WC, that opens up the outside of the defense as they have to be more conscious of White taking a run for a long play up the middle, in the WC the Qb is similar to the FB dive portion of the Wishbone, the play revolves around the defense dealing with the FB plunge. Once White can achieve some level of competence at that, the outside opens up and he has larger windows to throw the ball into or run off tackle with better speed and power, if White can show that he is explosive inside or outside, he won't need to be ultra accurate. I'll grant that is opposed to what 99% of people think about White, but the WC is primarily a running formation at it's core, he has to run the ball better than 2.7 ypc and everything works off of that improvement. That is why Sparano was talking up the weight gain, most people hear that and say "how sad" you sorta have to recognize what Sparano is alluding to in order to put it into context for the praise for something as simple as gaining 18 pds in a year.
Without reading any further, Rev I think you are absolutely right. They will give White every opportunity to fail before they give up on him and it probably means "wasted space on the roster' as you suggested. I think re-signing Penny is paramount to Thigpens' departure here. Penny may not be ready at the start of the season, but if Henne struggles or is injured, Penny could step in and play and give us a pretty good chance of competing despite the loss of Henne. Thigpen is less of a known quantity, no doubt. The thing is, I think the decision may be more about the risk they took to get this kid rather than a more objective view of his capabilities at this level...JMO, but they'll save a little face by keeping him around another year to see if he develops. This regime has had it's share of misses. McCown, Wilson, Wilford, Smiley, Green and quite a few draft misses among others. White may or may not be the next on the list, just not only on missing with him, but also with missing who they could have had (like a second year SOLB developing into a starter right now instead of this indecision about White) in his place. Based on what White's done so far, it looks rather bleak for him as well. You have to admire the fact that they've cut ties with most of these mistakes and fessed up to them, but how many misses constitute us getting a bit concerned ?? If Wilson had been the answer at FS, how different would things look right now ??
Can't disagree one iota about the WC and it's purpose. That is why Brown is the next best thing to a perfect WCxQB. Obviously, White adds the element of the pass, which is missing or at least less bothersome to defenses with Brown. Let's just suppose that the light comes on for White and the weight added helps him run a little better. So for 50-100 snaps thruout the season we give up on a developing LBer or TE or WR or a guy like Penny ?? This isn't about White and the success or failure of the WC, it's about whether White can play the proset QB which so far has been a resounding NO. If White had been a 4th round pick, would this conversation be coming up at all ?? Would he even still be here ?? The question in my mind is more about what we are not doing to improve the team while White figures out what it takes to play the part time position asked of him. And will his added weight make his passing more accurate ?? The bottom line is that White will take someones roster spot. Who's it gonna be ?? Thigpen ?? RGM or Turner ?? Nalbone or Haynos ?? Penny ?? Or a developing LBer ?? To me, that's the big concern.
And to that I would say there is a difference between short term, medium term and long term, short term is 2010, White's value is as a WC player, eventually he will have to show more proset skils, however for 2010, he has to run the ball better first and foremost. And "yes" a young Qb is worth far more than a Lb or Te or Wr simply from a value standpoint. Sure, every year there are surprise cuts like Brandon London last season. The question (it would seem to me) is whether or not Pat White can display more value than those other players offer for what they wish to do in 2010. Nalbone and RGM both have practice squad eligibility, Haynos is not going anywhere, neither is Thiggy, you cannot have the HC compare the guy to a pro bowl Qb and then just peddle the guy for a low return. The way I see it, virtually every player outside of maybe 12 starters has to earn their roster spot this year and the Staff will then make their judgments based on whatever criteria they have to make those decisions. The 2010 Dolphins roster is blessed with a host of physically talented, but unproven players all of whom have to show value or be gone..ain't nothing wrong with that...
White's value as a 'young QB' in your scenario, imo, would be based on the entire Qb package on the team. We have a young and coming QB in Henne who is slated at this point to be "the man". We have a somewhat developmental young player with some starting experience that could fill in should Henne go down either to injury or poor play. We have a wily veteran in Penny that can step in (pending his rehab) and carry the team if needed albeit with some limitations. White, imo, just doesn't quite fit in that group. White might (although there's little to prove that point) be able to develop into the WCxQB that we envisioned for him when he was drafted or even a proset QB, but has a long, long way to go. Our need of a young developing WR/returner, TE, LB, NT or FS is much more of need than a WCxQB at this point in time. We know that RB can execute the WC in it's base form and that he has limitations (passing). That hasn't really stopped the WC. There's little doubt that the right skillset at the WCxQB spot could make the formation a much more dynamic paradigm. However, with the development of Henne as our offensive leader and the addition of Marshall to bolster the WR position, if the resulting offense can do what they seem to think it can to bring back the big play and increased passing attack by Henne and the WRs, is there still a need to put as much emphasis on the WCxQB spot ?? Perhaps we can agree to disagree about this, but I'd still, based on our potential right now with the personnel we have for the long term, rather see the developing youngsters. As a team, we have not seen that type of thinking from any regime here since JJ left. As for the specific players (Haynos, Nalbone, RGM, etc), I just used those names, who knows, it could be Amaya, Pruitt, Tsoumpas, Sperry, Ivey or whoever they deem worthy of spending a roster spot on.
None of which have the potential of a Qb, there are reasons why we have used a #2 pick on a Qb for what..5 of the last 7 yrs? They are simply that valuable, hard to find, and worth investing time, money and a roster spot into in order to develop them. As I've said, White's value, for 2009, is WC Qb, his job is to show he can carry the ball for positive yardage consistently, that is step #1, step #2 is improved passing out of the WC and he has to show that he can prepare for 3 plays per game, and perform during those 3 plays, that is his role and he has to excel at doing it or be traded or whatever. "Whatever" could be anything from spending a season on the IR, to being released, to being traded for a draft pick or for a player. My one beef with the anti Pat White folks is he has not been allotted much of an opportunity to show what he can do on the field, and when he does do things on the field, they are discounted, as Ck pointed out, with White as the WC Qb..3 scores ensued, and one penalty (an important 12 man on the field flag in the fist Jets game), he looked decent in the Saints preseason game and I just believe (not think) that he should be given more of a shot. He has gained significant weight, and his passing has improved by most accounts, what is the harm in seeing what he can do with a better body for the NFL along with better passing skills? I suspect soon enough we will read about White showing improved running skills, as in "Pat White looks quicker this year" reports..
This will play itself out the rest of the OTAs and TC. I'm not saying that White doesn't deserve the opportunity, it's just that with as many young and coming players we have at so many positions does the potential for White at the WCxQB spot have more than some of the other young players....I'm not convinced because IF the base offense improves, then that would lessen the need for enhanced WC formations with White. By nearly all accounts, with Henne getting all the 1st team snaps, his experienced gained last season and the addition of Marshall, etc the base offense should improve. We have a decent run game, potentially made even better with the tooling around on the OL and the offense could move the chains...they just lacked the ability for big plays. Now, White as the WCxQB could be one of the elements to go along with Marshall, etc to give us that big-play ability, but there was the thought that White would be doing that last season and while he wasn't completely devoid of ability, he wasn't exactly productive either. The thing is, if he can't develop the ability to run more consistently, then he won't be effective as a potential passer out of the position and then he's as one sided in the WCxQB position as Brown is (in reverse) except that Brown has proven he can get the 4-5 yds a carry out of the offense. Look, I'm all for seeing White do in the WC what was envisioned when he came out. But it just doesn't look like his strengths at the college level are translating to the pro level... In my conclusion of these things, unless it happens early in TC with the more real bullets flying, it also won't happen during the season...How much time do we waste on his development ?? I sincerely hope to be able to eat these posts in another year, but right now, I just don't see it... BTW Padre, you'll be the first I contact when we see the WC go to the next level...LOL
