Imho, we would win in 2010 even without Brandon Marshall.

Of course nothing is guaranteed. I 'm pretty sure EVERYONE here is well aware of this fact.
Maybe we can at least agree on the following..
One thing that certainly helps a QB improve is OL.
The Bills have one of the worst OLs in the league.
The Dolphins are constantly working to upgrade theirs.
Strong OL and strong running game allows a young inexperienced QB get his sea legs.
While the Bills have a strong running game, they do not have a strong OL.
That is one thing that most assuredly sets the 2 teams apart.
Truth be told, you sound like the epitome of "misery loves company". I'm fine with you and any other opposing fan coming to this site to talk about football. However, you seem more interested in looking for ways to dampen our spirits than anything else; all under the pretense of "being objective".

 

Wow!

On one hand you say that Denver befitted by playing a couple 'easy' teams in their division. Because it suited your position. Then you say that SOS is meaningless. What is it? You can't have it both ways.

 

No, I took his 10 games and projected it to 14, Henne only started 13 games for us so that's more than fair.

 

That's the philosophy in using a teams Strength of schedule. So nothing is wrong with that, except your trying to have it both ways. You can't discredit it and accept it at the same time depending on whether or not it suits your needs at the moment.

 

No-o-o....the thread title was fairly open ended and merely claimed we would win without Brandon Marshall. The OP did not make the claim we would win the East; only that we could win without Marshall. So where exactly have you even addressed that specific thought?
Even in your response to my post you fail to even address my own attempt to find some middle ground. So tell me you're not here to only stir up crap.

 

you have no way of knowing that for sure
we have a solid group of guys who will battle for the starting FS position
if we are as desperate as you lead to believe we might have overpaid for a guy like clark or rolle or sharper but we didn't
instead we went into the draft to build the front seven which by the way is shaping up nicely to fit mike nolans scheme
we have a plan obviously which is to get younger
i see no plan in buffalo. you bring in a castaway in gailey who's running game will set the world on fire.... sure
you drafted a rb in spiller who pulled a hammy quite often at clemson
you have no QB prospect
the OL is toast
bash away all you want but that game in buffalo in 2009 has no bearing on the 2010 season
totally different ball game

 

Really? that's your defense? The team had the 6th toughest SOS and yet all those teams obviously had lousy offenses. I hope you don't defend people for a living.

 

Please explain to me how me having the better of the two QB's that just about every expert in the field is raving about it losing?

 

i hear ya. daily we see another report about how henne has all the tools
it doesn't make him a great QB yet but the tools are there
i'm yet to hear anything about the bills QB position except that they didn't draft one

 

I did read your first post as well as all the subsequent posts. You were actually the one who originally brought up the division title.
As to my point concerning the OLs. I was responding to your own comparisons to Henne and Edwards.

 

To be fair a team doesn't have to win the division to make the playoffs. However you specifically stated winning the division
And no I don't agree that the word "win" necessarily means the same thing as, or implies "winning big".
To me the statement was self explanatory and in response to so many on this board who are excited about Brandon Marshall's addition to this team. The OP was trying to make the point - "Hey it's great that we have Marshall, but we were going to be good with him or without him. Marshall will just make us that much better". This is what I took the post to mean.
Now the reason I took it at face value is because I've been around the board for awhile and I've had a lot of interaction with the OP so I know a bit about how he thinks.

 

You do realize Denvers defense went from the 30th ranked defense to the 12th ranked defense because of Nolan, right?

Now, we have more talent on our defense than Denver had when Nolan took over. Our defense is going to be a top 15 defense, potentially better.

Also, looking at Denvers schedule, they played very talented offenses.

New England Patriots, 6th Ranked Offense-Held to 17 points
San Diego Chargers, 4th ranked offense-Held to 23 first game, scored 32 second game
Dallas Cowboys, 14th ranked offense-Held to 10 points
Baltimore Ravens, 9th ranked offense-Scored 30 points
Pittsburgh Steelers, 12th ranked offense-Scored 28 points
New York Giants, 8th ranked offense-Held to 6 points
Indianapolis Colts, 7th ranked offense-Scored 28 points
Philadelphia Eagles, 5th ranked offense-Scored 30 points

As you can see, they went up against very talented offenses, and did a good job. Make no mistake, Nolan is a very good defensive coordinator.

 

Held NE to 17 points, NY Giants to 6 points, Dallas to 10 points, and SD to 23 points in the first meeting. He did this with a 30th ranked defense. 30th. One of the worst defensive teams went to above average under him. There is no way to spin this. He is a great defensive coordinator.

 

Followed by 6 to NY, 13 to KC, and 20 to Oakland.

Yes, they had tough stretches. They played some very good offenses though, and Mike Nolan more than held his own. He took a 30th ranked defense and turned it into a top 12 defense. That's a fact you keep ignoring. That defense didn't have much talent, but Mike Nolan still did his job.

Then you look at what Padre posted, and the average finish for a Nolan run defense is
12. I don't know how you can say that is bad.

 

Ok, let's cut through the crap and speculation.

Is it your contention the Dolphins' defense will be worse or the same this year?

 

Karlos Dansby.....nuff said....

 

Gentleman's signature wager? If the Dolphins don't improve their defensive rank from last year you can have me use any signature of your choosing (TOS applies) for a month. If they do, then you I get to pick yours.

 

Dline of Miami is there strength, the LB corp and their secondary was their weakness....a Dline that actually got deeper and stronger...Dansby will be Spillers first intro into NFL football.......not good...

 

True, and he might be your best catching weapon as well, however running the ball, advantage Karlos......

I can actually see Evans being a fantasy sleeper this year as the number one...

 

Ok then fair enough.

Just so you know, I'm too big of person, to point out the hypocrisy in claiming you don't care about the dolphin defense after arguing about it for a few pages while obviously looking up stats. I'd also never point out that you're so sure in your argument that you refuse to make a harmless bet about it. I would also, never use words and phrases like "chicken", "wuss" or "girly man" to describe you in regards to not taking this wager.

I am too above doing petty things that.....

 

Fin bro, u drunk this early in the day, doesnt sound like you

 

Wow- I justed wasted 10 minutes reading through this thread. You have some balls on you to call my points suspect after wading through your crapitude. Henne is considered an up and comer for good reason- he shows great talent, a great arm, and great promise of getting better. The tools are all there plus a year of playing time under his belt. Get off of the lame "no guarantees" argument. There are no guarantees that any young player will step up and be great. He was working with imo the worst WR corps in the league last year and still managed to play well. Marshall in and Ginn out this year should be huge for him. He has to cut down on the mental errors and ill advised throws- I expect Marshall to make life a lot easier for him this year and add to his efficiency.

Marshall- he's just about universally consiedered a huge upgrade for good reason. The running game DID have a problem last year- it was good but could have been great without facing 8 or 9 in the box almost all the time last year. That's an issue. Two of my favorite analysts are Phil Simms and Chris Collinsworth, here are their views on the trade for Marshall:

Simms called the trade ``a tremendous deal for the Dolphins. You don't get over the hump without that No. 1 receiver. You are not going to get it in the draft because they're not NFL ready. Marshall affects defenses by drawing double teams. It changes everything.''

``It puts them on par with New England and the Jets,'' Collinsworth said. ``If he gets his act together, he's a star. He plays like a younger Terrell Owens. He's probably as talented as anybody playing the game, a phenomenal specimen but also on the brink of being out of the game. He had plenty of disruptive behavior with the Broncos. It's a huge risk/reward. If it doesn't work, it's a huge setback for Miami's organization. Giving up two No. 2 picks was a high price.''

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/04/16/1582005/analysts-agree-brandon-marshall.html#ixzz0ofFNN6zM

As to the defense- I like Nolan, great pickup imo. Better DC than HC, and that's just fine with me. Yes we do have a big issue at FS, but getting Dansby should help reduce big plays- TE's torched us big time last year. There's a lot of new defensive blood this year, so we'll see what happens. If I recall correctly Cameron Wake smoked you for 2 or 3 sacks last year in the first game- Charlie Anderson was all over your QB as well in the 2nd game. We'll see how the defense does this year, there are a lot of variables in play.

As to your comments on CJ Spiller- imo he was a great addition for the Bills. He should be a mismatch for just about any LB.

 

OK Wc, lets go to your main points against Nolan... I agree with all except one (the bold one)...

None of these games were against Denver..

Baltimore O's scored, from 32-38 points, in 6 games last year and averaged 33 points per game...

Pits' O scored, from 27-38 points, in 5 games last year and averaged 32 points per game...

Washington O scored, from 24-34 points, in 3 games last year and averaged 28 points per game...

SD O scored, from 26-43 points, in 8 games last year and averaged 33 points per game...

Colts O scored, from 27-42 points, in 10 games last year and averaged 33 points per game...

Philys O scored, from 24-45 points, in 10 games last year and averaged 33 points per game...

So in regards to those same teams that scored an average of 27 points on Denver, looking at the numbers above they also averaging 32 points scored in those games listed...A little bit more than what the Denvers D allowed...

Also in regards, to Denver playing KC and Oakland twice and Denver's Defensive stats being skewed by this...

Taking away both KC and Oaklands games (4) we come up with this...

Denver's D ranked #10 in Total Yards Allowed per game (317)...
Denver's D ranked #5 in Passing Yards Allowed per Game (208)...
Denver's D ranked #1 in Rushing Yards per Game (109)...
Denver's D ranked #12 in Points Allowed per game (20.3)...

Go figure what is the next issue with Nolan in Denver...

Anyways we don't need Noaln to build a Ravens type D, just one that can be in the TOP 12-15 in the NFL will surfice to have winning seasons...

 

I can vouch for him. He would never say those things.

 

Why is his playing 15 games in 3 of his seasons such a big deal to you when you can see the production he still has? Do you know the exact reasons he missed one game in each of those seasons? Since you rail on about it, you should know. If not I guess you can look it up.

So, he gets pummeled by DBs more than a guy like Hartline or Bess because he is bigger? Do you know that for sure or are you just throwing stuff against the wall again to see what will stick?

Newsflash: In 6 seasons in Arizona, Dansby played in 16 games only two times. He played in just a mere 15 games twice and 14 games twice. Does that mean for sure that we will have to win one and a half games without Dansby too??

 

IMO, this team can win 8-10 without BM, winning 11 in 2008 (on an easier schedule) and winning 7 games last year, with significant injuries in the Offense and Defensive sides of the ball...

With a healthy season and BM added to the mix of WR's, winning 9-12 is not out of the question this year...

 

Capers spent two seasons in Miami.

 

You are an interesting character.

So, you feel its ok to not count the games against Oakland and KC because they are bad offenses, but when they go up against the best offenses in the NFL, you have to count the games? It does't work like that. At the end of the year, they were 12th in scoring and 7th in total yards. And this was achieved with a unit that didn't have much talent.

 

Check this Post... http://forums.thephins.com/showpost.php?p=1140635&postcount=166

It is my rebutle to WC's...

 

Now who's speculating. The only thing we can say for certain is that Spiller is fast. I think he needs to prove he can actually play against NFL caliber players before we say he creates a mismatch with ANYONE.
Hell, Ted Ginn is fast.
You spent an awful lot of pages trying to prove your point that there are no guarantees that a player (Henne for instance) will improve for you to now be boasting about a draft pick who has yet to take one snap in the NFL.

 

The only valid points that he had were Spiller and our FS position, the rest was crap. Spiller rocks- he ain't no Ted Ginn. Speed quicks, and pretty good strength. I think that Spiller will be special. Big play waiting to happen- run, pass and kick returns, too.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pueH5Wv021M"]YouTube- CJ Spiller Career Highlights at Clemson and why he will be a TOP 10 PICK! Part 1[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxkNT9IxEu8"]YouTube- CJ Spiller Highlights - Speed Kills[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFcecMcS6bA"]YouTube- C.J. Spiller Highlights[/ame]

 

Believe me Ted Ginn looked special coming out of OSU. At WR and returning.He wasn't tentative. He wasn't afraid of contact.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGyrgqOKZLg"]YouTube- Ted Ginn Highlight Film[/ame]

 

Straight line speed for the most part, not great quicks at all. That's why Davone Bess- who runs what, about a 4.8?- got the punt returning job. That and Ginn's lack of intestinal fortitude. But enough about Ginn, hopefully he does well in SF.

 

did spiller become a dolphin?

 

No, he was drafted by Buffalo.

 

That and he'll be able to stand there and day dream of how nice it would be to have a good OL and what it might be like to not have the first contact made behind the line of scrimmage.

 

Because the NFL would rather show case how nice it is down here...... as opposed to putting any kind of focus on the fact that it has a team located in the nation's arm pit..... just a hunch

 

finally the voice of reason.... long drives and finish. this is what the thread is really about right
most fans want to score on two plays with a big time passing game.who doesn't love TD's?
but you have to put the defense back on the field
you still have to pound the ball, eat clock. BTW I absolutely hate shootouts.

 

This isn't the first time you refereed to our defense as 'slow'. Who on our defense is slow for their position? I'm asking because before I look up times I wanna know if I need to look up times for both entire defenses or just certain positions LB's D-line CB's etc.

 

There will be a day when Marshall won't dress and we know that
Maybe i am way out of the norm except you pod but BM doesn't need to get 100 catches and if he does it could be trouble
I prefer quality over quantity
we heard about chunk yardage and i think we have that option but you move the sticks and keep our defense off the field still. nothing has changed except defenses can't stack us

 

So just going by your stats alone. Which I don't agree with but using your stats we will be replacing 38 receptions for 454 Yards and 1 TD with 80 Receptions for just under 1000 yards and 6 tds. Hell that alone would win us 2 or 3 extra games! I'll take it!

[TABLE="head; width=50%]Player|Rec|Yrds|TD
Tginn|38|454|1
Bmarsh|80|950|6[/TABLE]

 

Well then I guess the fact that Marshall will aid Henne's game, just flies over your head....looking forward to Henne carving your team up like a turkey.

 

No it IS debatable, especially when when we are looking at and disusing 2010. Because as you mentioned "we did replace some players". The object of replacing those players was to increase team speed. So if we are talking about next year. Which is the premise that this entire thread is based on. Give me your starters and I simply compare 40 times.

I know this doesn't tell us every thing but at least it would give us a decent enough common ground. I say this because I know our secondary is fast and I know all the backers we brought in are fast and yes they are still big and physical.

So what say you? give me your projected starters.

 

No no..... Ginn was our #1 as hard to believe as it is. Bess has been and will always be a slot receiver and it was Ginns spot that Bmarsh took. We still have Bess.