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Why christianity?

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by TrueDolFan, May 18, 2010.

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  1. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    I'm curious to find out why those of you who are christian chose christianity over all the other religions.

    Is it because you grew up being indoctrinated into christianity?

    Or

    Is it because after careful examination of the other religions of the world, you came to an epiphany, and realized that your salvation was only possible through the teachings of the bible?
     
  2. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    The former.
     
  3. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    My short answer would be both. I was born into a Christian family where worship, reading of scripture, prayer, and acts of charity were the routine of life. As I grew I looked at other faiths but admittedly always with a Christian eye and thus saw it, to some degree, as "us and them".

    But as I struggled with discernment over my life, my vocation, and having a relationship with a "higher power", I came to realize that the Christian faith made sense. All other faiths seem to be ladders on which we climb up to God. I knew I could never count on myself, that I would always come up short. I also came to understand that in the person of Jesus Christ, God came down to me. An appreciation of God's love in doing that created my desire to love God in response and thus my Christian faith grew or at least became more pronounced.

    That in a nutshell is my story and my answer to your question.
     
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  4. eric

    eric New Member

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    very rarely does an educated adult come to their own conclusion on religion and choose which one they want to follow, or makes the most sense to them.

    99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% are people who just had it pounded into their heads since before they were old enough to comprehend anything at all.

    i wish it was a law that nobody was taught ANY religion untill they were a legal consenting adult and made the choice themselves.....but that will never happen because it would be the end of the collection plate.

    religion is the oldest most effective way for people to be assembled and told what to do and think. its makes them all fear that they must serve something they cant see in order to insure the quality of their after life.

    there is no higher authority that any of them EVER answer to or even receive any evidence of. they all believe it because thats what they have been told since they can remeber, by almost everyone they meet. they see how big religion is and how long it has been around. surely a lie or misconception could not be so vast and far reaching could it?
     
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  5. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    really? How so?
     
  6. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    eric, I agree with what you say, but that's not what I started this thread for.

    I wanted to see answers to my question from our christian brothers, not rants by atheists.
     
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  7. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    Do you believe that Christianity made sense to you later in life because life as you knew it necessitated it, or for some other reason?
     
  8. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box


    The five pillars of Islam call upon the believer to perform certain actions in order to attain to God. Judaism calls upon its adherants to obey "Torah". Buddhism speaks of paths unto God. Etc.

    Christianity says God comes to us in the person of Jesus Christ. We do nothing to merit that love and attention nor are we even able to.

    I can never be "sure" of anything, do I believe enough, am I good enough, faithful enough, etc. Christianity doesn't require that, it tells me that God has selected me. Therefore my life is not an attempt to attain status with God but simply a life of gratitude.

    Christianity has always "made sense" but my understanding has grown. If I understand your question, I think I operate with a few basic presumptions which others may not. First I believe in a god. Second, I believe that being in relationship with that god is at the center of any human beings existence.

    In my early life those were assumed without much question. I went on however to ask those questions of myself and of the world as I grew. The answers that came from that assessment are above. Am I getting to your question?
     
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  9. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    I would ask you to show me the respect I am giving to you. Simply put you know how many Christians? 1,000 maybe 2,000? There are 2 billion adherants currently on earth and perhaps close to that many more throughout history. I find it both arrogant and presumptive of anyone to claim they KNOW what all of those people think or feel. I hold a major office within a denomination of nearly 5 million mostly here in America. Even from that vantage point I would not presume to know the motives and deisres of those many folks.

    Thank you for that but since you have, in part, revealed your beliefs, may I ask what brings you to ask your questions?
     
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  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I understand what you are saying. However from my research of Buddhism, there really isn't a "God". In some sects, I guess being the Buddha is God.
     
  11. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    I believe buddha's god status is more of a prophet status no?
     
  12. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    Your points are well made. Buddhism does not neatly fit into the categories we in the west most commonly use. If one understands Buddha as a first among later followers to achieve the perfect state of enlightnment then He is a god-like figure at worst. Either way, my point is that Buddhism calls on the adherant to do the attaining and would not recognize western understandings of Grace any better than we understand elightenment.
     
  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

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    I think that depends on which "sect" of buddhism you go by.

    Buddha is more of a prophet status, however in a lot of them there isn't a status above Buddha.

    Buddha is the status given to someone who is enlightened.

    The way I understand it, to put it in Christian terms. Jesus becomes the Christ, and the teaches others to become Christ.
     
  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

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    What is the Western understandings of Grace?

    The only understanding I have is the sound is sweet and it can save a wretch like me.

    EDIT:

    I guess he could be a god-like figure. He isn't a creator.
     
  15. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    Grace is an unmerited, unearned gift. In Christian parlance it explains God's love and faithfulness for a huiman community which is by nature sinful.
     
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  16. eric

    eric New Member

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    i did not show any disrespect at all. thats an unwarranted defensive statement.
    the number of people who believe in something does not equal any sort of proof.
    i did not and dont claim to know what all those people thought and felt.

    basically your entire response was an unecessary way for you to take a stand against what i said, while implying that i am "both arrogant and presumtive" for making a claim that i never actually made.

    is that how this works? just make up something, cast a negative light on it and distance yourself from it? i feel like a monkey just threw feces at me scampered away into the forest
     
  17. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    Eric do you really believe you were not being dismissive and disrespectful? First of all you contend

    so appearantly, I can not be a bright person? That is not disrespectful? By the way, I have an IQ, tested secularly, of 138 and appeared on Jeopardy. At least a few folks seem to believe I can think?


    But then


    You are not claiming to know what everyone believes and how they got there? How am I misreading that?

    You don't see that comment as disrespectful????? Your contention is that Christianity specifically and religion in general is nothing but a money making scam! Are you telling me that is not what you mean?

    After 26 years of ministry and with a master's degree, I lead a congregation over over 2000. We have a staff of a dozen, and a budget of a half million dollars. I am paid less than $45,000 and given a 95 year old house adjacent to the church to live in. Trust me I am not in to fill the collection plate, at least not for myself.

    And to require their be no teaching of religion until someone is an adult and can decide for themselves? That presumes something sinister about my motives and those of the parents of children.

    We love God. It is a deep component of our being. The thought we could not share that love with our children is preposterous. When a child asks why something is the way it is, Why is the sky blue?, Why do some people hurt others? Where is Grandma now that she is dead? You would disallow any statement of faith or belief in a family's answer? How is that not disrespectful or dismissive? If you would say the answer should only be scientific then YOU are substituting science for a faith and thus raising human reason to the level of god. If you wish to do that you may, but to require it is in my way of thinking arrogant and presumptive.

    As far as taking a stand against what you said, what did you say?

    All people of faith are brainwashed idiots whose leaders are in it for the money and should be cut off from all sources of proclamation and education? Did I miss something? Where do you leave room for discussion with that viewpoint?

    TruDolfan asked a serious question. For what reason I do not know but I answered him. Who threw the monkey feces? I made a beginning answer and you made what even your fellow disbeliever called an "atheistic rant". How did you promote the discussion of the question of the thread?
     
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Eric,

    As a staunch Atheist, i understand your stance about reason and logic and beliefs. I even understand the frustration you often feel, when it comes to getting your thoughts out there. However, in here, we try to be more respectful, simply because its polite and the right thing to do when having mature discussions about a topic as touchy as faith.

    Your post was combative and judgmental. If that wasn't your intention, no problem, but I hope you can see how it could be taken that way. The more time you spend in here, you'll see this forum IS NOT really about defending or justifying ones beliefs, its more about sharing your thoughts and asking questions of others.:up:
     
  19. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    Thank you Fin D, you said it better than I did. And for the record, you are one of the folks in this forum who are sterling representatives of what you stand for. You have my thanks and respect.
     
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  20. The Rev

    The Rev Totus Tuus Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box Club Member

    I never came to an "a-ha" moment about God. He was just always there. I felt His presence, opened myself up to Him and allowed Him to work in me.

    I think I might have "checked-out" other religions but I was always drawn to Christianity. It just called to me.

    Eric, we've had great discussions here with others who are not Christian or even religious. We try not to judge each other here, just understand where each other is coming from.

    One more thing and I believe this applies to any religion: faith is the key. Knowledge can only take you so far. After a while, faith is what will fill in the gap.

    GB
     
  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Outside of my wife wanting to marry me, this is probably the greatest compliment, I've ever received. Seriously, to be respected from someone on "the opposite side of the coin", is really just, well, wow. I hope you know the sentiment couldn't be more mutual. Thank you so much.
     
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  22. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    Of course you may ask.

    I had a talk about religion and faith with a very intelligent (and very Christian) co-worker of mine yesterday morning. We both had been raised in families that placed high importance on Christianity. But we had taken different paths, his faith has only become stronger over the years, whereas mine has disappeared completely.

    It was great to have an open, respectful discussion with somebody about religion/spirituality without getting into all the judgements that sometimes come up when people disagree fundamentally.

    It was such an interesting discussion, I thought I'd bring it here and get even more perspectives.
     
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  23. The Rev

    The Rev Totus Tuus Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box Club Member

    Interesting indeed. I wonder what causes that phenomenon? Both raised Christian and both took different paths. As a Christian, the easy answer to say is that one was open to the message, received it, and accepted it.
    But that would be near sighted and wrong. There has to be more to the issue than that.

    TD, if I may ask, do you still search for religion or are you content where you are?
     
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  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    For me, this scenario screams out about the sheer individuality of the human experience. While human behaviors can be viewed similar to cooking recipes, the depth of our perceptions cannot. This is just further evidence that all faiths (or non-faiths:wink2:) should have more of an open door policy than a knock on your door policy.
     
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  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

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    I have never understood staunch atheism. It always seemed to me the same as being religious. Even Richard Dawkins is agnostic. He has a scale from 1 to 6 where 1 believes in god and 6 believes in no god. He is a 5, where he puts it, he doesn't know if there is a god or not, however there probably isn't.

    That made sense to me.
     
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  26. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    Thank you. What a wonderful report. A disscussion where boths sides expressed feelings and struggles without getting into name calling and anger. You and your co-worker are both to be commended. I think Fin D is right about the variety of the human experiance. May you both continue to be open to each other and to the views each of you bring.
     
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  27. opfinistic

    opfinistic Braaaaains!

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    Peeking in Nabo's Basement
    I was born and raised as a Catholic and through the years I drifted away from the Church and from God. All that changed recently as I went through some very difficult, very trying times. I ended up losing everything I had worked for and found myself pushed, actually dragged, kicking and screaming, into a new life. It was a time that was so full of Signs and Events that just fell into place in a manner that was too neat to be considered coincidence that it brought me back to my Faith. I've been attending Church regularly again and bringing myself back into my Faith and things have rapidly improved for me and life is getting back on track. One day I may write it all down and share it, the manner in which Events unfolded is (to me, at least) amazing.
    But I still keep an eye on the LL.
     
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  28. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    I would agree. The belief there is nothing in the universe greater than ones self doesn't work for me. In the way I think, agnosticism does make more sense than atheism. For me that there is a god is so fundamental, I admit to having trouble understanding atheism on a basic level. I acknowledge it is there and try not to disrespect those who hold to it, but I have trouble getting my head around it.

    Probably as much as a staunch atheist has trouble understanding my fervant belief in a supreme being?!:dunno:
     
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  29. TrueDolFan

    TrueDolFan Minion of Satan

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    The short answer to your question is I am good where I am.

    I was indeed raised as a Christian, and my family was very involved with the church. When I was young, I never questioned the legitimacy of the Bible, or why I believed. But as a teenager, I started to ask questions. Chief among them this particular question, "How do we know for sure that the Bible is TRULY the word of God?" I have yet to find any real answer to that question other than, "faith". For me, that's not enough.

    Because of that, and the lack of answers to many other questions I had, I have become a non-believer. And I am very much content with that fact.

    Having said that, I want to say that I have a great deal of respect for those who have and maintain their faith. I'm not the type of person that believes that he's somehow better than those who choose to have faith. Those types give guys like me a bad name, just as the "God hates ****" crowd give REAL Christians a bad name.
     
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  30. Dol-Fan Dupree

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    To me it seems to be almost the same. That Atheists have to create a god to not believe in.

    In a conversation on this board with an athiest and he told me I might as well believe in invisible purple unicorns. If they are invisible and phase how do I not know they are there? Of course them being invisible and purple might seem strange. However I honestly do not know if there are invisible things that I cannot see that phase through me.

    I call myself agnostic because I do not know. I have my own beliefs, however still I do not know.
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    For me, staunch Atheism is about saying I don't allow for the possibility of a god to be in my moral structure.

    As I've said before, faith and fact are very near opposites and must be kept that way. I do not know it to be fact that there is a god or isn't one. I have no faith that there is a god, however. If factual proof of a god ever came to light, no ones faith would be relevant anymore because it would be a fact.

    Anything and everything is possible, that doesn't mean all things are probable. Most of us, don't walk around on land all day, wearing a life jacket. Though drowning is fairly common in the world, we don't plan on a life jacket if we aren't near water. That's being an Atheist to me. Being agnostic, IMO, means you at least have a life jacket in your trunk or backpack, just in case.
     
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  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

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    Our opinions are different in what being agnostic means.

    Maybe I am wrong, however it seems to me that your perspective makes sense if I use the term, "Christian Athiest" and "Christian Agnostic".

    I have never been a Christian in any way shape or form, which gives me a different perspective.

    To me, atheism means there is no god and there is no creator. Life, the universe and everything happened for no reason and when we die there is nothing.

    Which to me is a lot of knowledge that they cannot know. Which to me is very unscientific.

    To me, agnostic is the acknowledgment of the fact that they do not know. There are various degrees of agnosticism. I do like Dawkins agnostic scale.

    I would be around a 2 or a 3. I am agnostic in the sense where I have no clue if there is a god. I do believe there is something, however I have zero belief in the Christian ideal of God. I do not believe in original sin. I do not believe in hell. I do not see myself having a life jacket on so I do not upset the Christian ideal of god.
     
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  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    First of all, I'm not talking about Christianity.

    I'm using the term "god" (lower case "g" and all) to encompass any concept of a higher power or higher "reason" for everything being what it is.

    I said anything is possible, just not probable, and because of that I don't allow for "god" in my faith. Not allowing for a "god" in your faith, is Atheism. As far as an Atheist's faith is concerned, there is no "god".

    Its possible I may drown tomorrow, not probable, so I won't be wearing a life jacket, and life jackets are very uncomfortable. An agnostic is someone who says I don't know for sure that I could drown tomorrow, so why not keep a life jacket handy, and knowing its there brings me comfort. A believer says I may drown, I may not, it depends on whatever higher power may decree, so I'll wear the life jacket whenever I can, but that's ok, because it brings me warmth and comfort.
     
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  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

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    You are one of the few athiests I have talked to that acknowledge that atheism is a faith.

    Using your anology, I can see some agnostics who keep a life jacket handy and some who do not.

    Your anology might not be talking about Christianity, however it seems to be coming from a Christianity/Monothesistic/One God who towers over us perspective. Or at least Western which is pretty much the sam ething.

    I may drown tomorrow and I may not. I may be comforted by my beliefs and I may not. I see myself as wanting to carry a life jacket because it makes sense. What if I decide to go white water rafting
     
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  35. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    Understandable. How can anyone KNOW for scientific fact that any WORD comes from a being who himself can not be proved scientifically. If that level of certainty is your standard then you have come to a logical place for yourself. You also seem to recognize that everyone does have have the same standards for belief and for some of us having some gray areas is quite comfortable.

    Thanks for responding to the questions as to your intentions in asking your questions. One of the things we are taught at seminary, or at least I was, is to make sure you understand what the "real" question is before answering.

    A person who comes up to you and asks about unbaptized babies who die probably isn't asking out of intellectual curiousity. They have a particular situation and/or famly member in mind and that want assurance of love not theology. I wanted to make sure I was answering what you were truly asking.
     
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  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I think most Atheists, like most believers, misunderstand the simple concepts of facts and faith. It is my humble opinion, that one cannot know what one believes or knows unless, one understands the words "fact" and "faith".

    I think my analogy seems to be coming from western religion, because well, we're in the west and those are obviously the most prevalent religions. For your edification, I don't believe or have faith in: god, gods, powers, energies, spirits, lights, shakras (sp), the supernatural, higher meanings, higher reasons, higher states of consciousness, et all. I sum that up by saying I don't believe in "god", because I'm lazy.
     
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  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

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    If they are concepts then they do not exist so there is nothing to understand. :tongue2:
     
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  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    :tantrum:
     
  39. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, my experience is different from yours by 180 degrees, I was raised in anything but a church environment, yet Christianity rings true to me.

    And that was the key, "Truth", Scripture rang true to me on both a personal and experimental level, I tested the precepts of Christianity for myself, I also looked into the wisdom that was offered in view of Eastern "religions" though that is a bit of a misnomer, Buddhism is not a "religion" per se, it is more a philosophy that one implements as best as one can with no maxims to so to speak.


    That and to me, Budhisms' cycle of birth, life, death, I found to be incredibly oppressive intellectually speaking, is this world and this life soo sweat as to be worth a virtual never ending cycle of wash, rinse, repeat? Yet Buddhism proposes that very thing, not a one act play, but a never ending play with the cycle of suffering, deceit, greed, violence continuing in perpetuity.

    Now for myself, I have no problem with Atheism or Buddhism or Paganism or what have you, in fact I enjoy the entire thought process that goes into that line of thinking as long as...it is well thought out..for myself I pity a Christian that does not understand the foundation of the Faith, I find everyone else intellectually stimulating..:up:
     
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  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

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    Unless you attain a Buddha mind. Then none of that matters.
     
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