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L O S T - The Final Season

Discussion in 'TV, Music and Movies' started by Clark Kent, Aug 26, 2009.

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  1. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    Unless during the MIB/Jacob story, they show one of them (probably Jacob) setting up the Dharma Initiative to prove to the other (MIB) he was right about people. That could tie in the Dharma people.
     
  2. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    But the Others [supposedly under the direction of Richard who works under the direction of Jacob] murdered the entire Dharma initiative. Nothing with Dharma makes sense to me at this point.
     
  3. ether79

    ether79 ****

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    The only thing I can get is the electromagnetism thing, and its effects on smokey, which is the most obvious and only thing that makes sense. but as to why they were brought there who knows?? A theory about the bad things done on the island i have is that maybe smokey was tricking Ben and Richard for some time possibly. I mean we know that Ben never saw jacob personally and that the ash ring around "Jacob's" cabin was broken. Was Smokey possibly fooling Richard, having the others do all these contradictory things than what you would assume Jacob might want? Probably not, but thats something that kinda makes sense
     
  4. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    What is it about Dharma you need to know? I mean... They built Hatches, the survivors found them. They traveled back in time after the FDW was turned and ended up in the time of the DI. We learned that the DI was trying to exploit the islands mystical properties.
     
  5. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    why though?

    why build hatches unless you're preparing for some cataclysmic (sp) event?

    what happened to all the Dharma people when that nuke was supposedly detonated?

    I'd like to know how Dharma came to be on that island in the first place, what drew them there? Was it an "other" that left the island and recruited this team to come back and exploit it?
     
  6. pennphinfan

    pennphinfan Stelin Canez Arcade Scorz

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    I think the Jack-Saywer idea for the new island duo could be feasible. I know people are saying that Sawyer has grown up and all. but I think a big thing about this show is character development, and I get the feeling the finale is going to be about whether the individual person really can 'change', or if their gut instincts and feelings are permanent.

    Obviously, this is a big thing between Jacob/MIB, the nature of human life. And even though we have seen people grow, you still see individual characters revert to their season 1 selves in times of desperation.
    Jack, while 'growing', still wants to 'fix everything' and feels terrible if he can't. We even saw this up through this past episode, both in the sideways with locke's surgery, and trying to get everyone off the sub etc.
    Sawyer, while supposedly softening up, still holds grudges and deep down doesn't trust anyone (hence pulling the fuses from the bomb). In the sideways, he still hunts down the man who conned his family.

    This list goes on, but I mentioned those 2 people because I could see Jack hanging back because deep down he wants to 'help everyone', even if he now guises it as 'destiny'. Sawyer on the otherhand, may hang back because of some sort of women-issue, or someone else may die (i.e. Kate) that really sets him off and he vows to get revenge on Jack and/or humanity for it.

    Then the show leaves us thinking, wow, they've been through all this and never changed for the better. I wonder if *I* can change...... LOST
     
  7. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    a). Obviously they built the hatches to harness and understand the power of the island. Chang talked about how important the pocket of energy near the FDW was. They built the Swan to understand the electromagnetic energy. Studying that stuff is what scientists do.

    b). Who says the nuke did anything or even blew up? We saw in the opening scene of the premier that dharmaville was intact when the island was under water.

    c). The guy who owned the blackrock, Magnus Hanso (or his son, I forget which) founded the Dharma initiative.
     
  8. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Yea, the idea that the island is protecting against the release of "evil incarnate" which might be MIB does hurt my theory.

    However it could be that MIB being evil and the island holding back evil have nothing to do with each other. As long as both MIB and Jacob is there the island is protected, however if they both were to leave then whatever the island is keeping back is released and all no longer exists.

    Sawyer does not have to be "evil incarnate". He could just be mad because he has to spend the rest of his life defending an island he does not want to stay on, however is forced to due to the fact that Jack does something as a candidate when he replaces Jacob.
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I honestly do not agree. I know enough about Dharma at this point. I think during the time travels and the conversation with MIB at the well they pointed out that there were many people who went to the island to try to exploit it and Dhamra was just another group of people trying to exploit the island.

    I feel satisfied with the Dharma part of the story at this point.
     
  10. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    We saw the island under water in the flash sideways.

    I don't believe it was ever proven that the captain of the Blackrock was a relative of that other Hanso... that would make sense, but if it was the captain (not the owner) wasn't he killed by smokey in that Alpert flashback?
     
  11. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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  12. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    This is exactly what I mean. It kind of feels like I'm not watching Lost anymore. It does fee llike a spin-off.
     
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  13. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    The writing is fine. I don't really like the direction the show has gone in.
     
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  14. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Cross this name off the list of possible returning characters for the last few episodes:


    Too bad I really liked that character and always wanted to see the character back, even for a quick cameo ala Michael a few episodes ago. Oh well.
     
  15. ether79

    ether79 ****

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    I been thinking some before tonights episode about those little sneak peeks on ABC.com and I am begining to think that is it possible that a big part of this might be re-encarnation? At work now so I cant go deeper into my thoughts, maybe we will see if this is the case tonight,
     
  16. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    Interesting. Tonight should close some questions everyone has. (I hope). I think it will be a good episode. I hope they go into good detail about Jacob and MIB.
     
  17. JimToss

    JimToss Thank You Chad Pennington

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    These little kids are such weenies.
    I want to punch them both.
     
  18. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    The producers talked about AA before during one of their podcasts. They refuse to have him back because of the way he left. He also screwed up their story, according them.

    I do remember in a DVD commentary it was said that Mr. Eko was suppose to have Desmond's power of seeing the future. They had big things in mind for him I guess.

    This new episode was meh. Maybe that was because of all the hype... But in the end, it wasn't nearly as satisfying as I'd hoped.

    That whole "light" thing is very star war esk in that it is like the Force... We just accept it and move on. That doesn't sit completely well with me. As far as the smoke monster goes, well... I don't know how I feel about that.
     
  19. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    http://lostmysteries.blogspot.com/2010/04/if-mib-has-been-appearing-as-christian.html



    I didnt like that we didnt get an explanation for Jacob and His twin's family tree, their mom said that her mom passed down the role of "Island Protector" to her(probably via the same Wine ritual that gave Jacob his superpowers).

    Also it seems that Dogen was right, the only way to kill them is to stab them without letting them speak.(Then again that only worked on the mother as Jacob did speak before getting shanked)


    Als is Smokey supposed to be the Baby/Kid/Man In Black's spirit?
     
  20. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Interesting about Eko. Yeah I always felt that him asking off the show ruined some things they had planned for him. His whole story wasn't close to being told. It's too bad because I was always a big Eko fan.

    As for tonight's episode, it was a huge let down for me, in fact I think I'm comfortable saying I hated it. I expected much much more. The first scene I thought was good but it just went downhill from there. The best part of the episode were the flashbacks from Season 1 (which I kind of felt weren't really needed since any fan of Lost would have known the mom and MIB were Adam and Eve without being told that).

    They turned Jacob into a little sissy. The whole episode just felt weird and just not good. The whole light thing was dumb too. I guess I expected a better back story for both Jacob and MIB (I did like how they never said his name since his mother didn't know she was having twins). Speaking of their real mom how was MIB able to see her?

    Plus I was also expecting more answers and all we got were more questions and the answer to who was Adam and Eve (which I always felt was really irrelevant who they really were). I just have so many more questions that I know won't be answered unless we get more of Jacob/MIB back story.

    Sorry for venting but I'm just really bummed out right now, I really thought this episode was going to be really really good.
     
  21. ether79

    ether79 ****

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    I am really wanting to vent too. This episode is almost a death nail for me. I really hoped this episode would shed light on several things and all they gave us was contradictory statements by "mother" giving us the purpose behind the "game" that none of us got a glimpse into. The same statements that MIB and Jacob made during the season. The whole light thing was a copout, silly considering they reset the whole series based on this theme of good and evil, I will accept that considering several small instances throughout the series, but just explain it. They didn't. Adam and Eve, yeah we figured it out. Who built the wheel if MIB didnt? How did MIB know it would let him leave? Where did "mother" come from herself? As to smokey, yeah it probably is MIB soul or whatever but and he is the protector/security system of the island but get a bit more indepth about it other than a 20 second visual...Uggghhh this hit me hard. I will say I think that Smokey is the "good" guy and Jacob is the one who got twisted and is the "evil" one....or it just probably more just shades of gray considering.
     
  22. DrAstroZoom

    DrAstroZoom Canary in a Coal Mine Luxury Box

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    BIG letdown.
     
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  23. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That was not the story I wanted.
     
  24. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Well, I can see a lot of you are depressed... I'm not sure what to think completely, although I will say I kinda liked it... :lol:... the opening to last season, when MIB and Jacob are on the beach and Jacob is having his fish, contrast that scene to what we were shown tonight. Is MIB still "dead?" He seemed very much alive in that scene, although when Jacob asked him if he wanted something to eat he did say I already ate... see, had MIB picked up a piece of food and actually ate it, then I'd say he's alive... but since he didn't eat anything, didn't interact with anything animate, then he must be dead and Jacob must be seeing him as a vision, just like so many characters on the show who have died and been seen by many. I know, supposedly that's the smoke monster taking the form of those that have died. It very well could still be that. And yet the loophole that MIB was talking about in wanting to kill Jacob, we know he ended up taking Locke's form because people trusted Locke and would trust him to lead him and Ben to Jacob who ended up "killing" him.

    When MIB killed his "mother" anyone else catch the significance of her telling him "thank you?" Perhaps she found her loophole?

    History...Language spoken by mother and Claudia? Pretty sure that was Latin. Those hunters looked to be wearing gladiator outfits. Yet if that was a navy ship, hell the time frame could be anywhere between 311 BC and 476 AD (wikipedia is my friend). Doesn't tell us how long the "mother" had been there... she knew how to weave... and weaving goes back a long long way, thousand of years before.

    Guess now we know that originally MIB was a "good" guy. And if Jacob helped his "mother" kill those survivors, then that makes him "bad."

    About the light? With so many natural properties on the island, I'm going with an "eternal flame." Not a religious view, more something along the lines of a flame fueled by a coal seam. I suspect the "mother" was raised relgious and the whole prayer before Jacob drinking from the cup kinda falls in line, Jewish?

    What does it all mean? beats the hell out of me... :shifty:
     
  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I didn't see anything to even suggest that Jacob had an idea that even happened
     
  26. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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  27. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I did say "if"... he certainly has killed many people by bringing them to the island... Black Rock one example.
     
  28. Ultra

    Ultra Lazy

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    for me this episode showed it's not really about good versus evil. The MIB agreed with his mother that all the people were bad, but he just wants to get off the island and go 'home.'
    Jacob thinks he has to kill off the bad people to protect the island. So essentially they are both killers, but for different reasons.
     
  29. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I'm still trying to make any sense about last night's episode. I'm very interested to see what Doc Jensen thinks about it in his column. The episode was just way way out there. Is the MIB really dead? Is he even the smoke monster? Did sending MIB into the light cave releash smokey? What are all the rules and why can't they be broken? Just so many more questions now.

    Right now I kind of feel like I wish I never saw this episode because I think it took a lot away from the show, I admit that could change depending on the last few episodes left. It almost feels like the writers used this episode as an excuse to go back to fill in the blanks from earlier seasons and say 'see we told you we knew where all of this was going' (which I feel like they have done in other episodes as well).
     
  30. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yeah, I agree. I don't think this episode showed us that Jacob and MIB are good or bad. I mean think about how they grew up and what they have been told and what little they actually know of the outside world. I think its all still a big grey area. I think each person did what they thought was right, it's up to us to decide who's good or bad.

    I think we can now assume for sure that Jacob did indeed have Richard tell Ben to help kill everyone in the Dharma group. However why did Jacob let Ben and the Others stay on the island? I guess he didn't feel threated by them?
     
  31. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    eh... the island is purgatory... always has been... remember Michael? just before he blew up the ship, "Christian" told him he could go now... yet Michael is now stuck on the island (rather than being stuck in life not able to kill himself... sound familiar?)
     
  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think part of him wants to find good people.
     
  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    MIB has killed a lot of people as well.
     
  34. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Good call there. I'd love to know how and why some dead people show up to speak to the living. Obviously it was confirmed by Flocke that he used Christian's form to get Jack to the caves but I don't think it was smokey that told Michael he could go on the boat or it was smokey talking to Hurley as Michael. But was Smokey Walt when Shannon saw him a few times in the woods? Just seems very random.
     
  35. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I can buy that for sure but why has he let Ben live on the island when it's clear Ben is evil? Because Ben helped him with Dharma, he gets a free pass from Jacob?
     
  36. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Just thought of something, maybe the reason why Walt, Alex, Aaron and the other two kids on the plane were taken or tried to be taken was because they were looking for Jacob's replacement (obviously without The Others knowing the real reason) much like Jacob's 'mom' was looking for her replacement and that's why see took Jacob and MIB in.

    That's also probably the reason why Richard went to see Locke at a young age (perhaps why someone hit Locke's mother while Locke was still in the womb). Maybe the reason why the pregnant women were dying on the island was either the island didn't want any newborns to be used as Jacob's replacement or because Smokey was killing them?
     
  37. Ultra

    Ultra Lazy

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    One thing that just hit me...I don't think Jacob's brother is the MIB. I think Jacob actually killed him, and released the smoke monster. Since the smoke monster can take the form of dead people, he took the form of Jacob's brother.
    The thing that doesn't make sense is that Jacob's mother said she made it so they couldn't hurt each other, but that may have gone out the window when she died and made Jacob the new protector.
     
  38. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Well that's the thing, we don't know what exactly the Smoke Monster is. Is it the MIB? Is it the MIB's soul/spirit? Is it something else?

    I still think the 'can't hurt each other' rules apply because why would Smokey wait all that time to kill Jacob? You'd have to think once the mother died, if Smokey could take out Jacob he would have. Smokey can't kill Jacob (for whatever reason), that's why he led Ben into Jacob's Temple to do it for him. He found the 'loophole' of having someone else do it for him.
     
  39. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Ya Smokey is Defiantly MIB. Great episode last night!
     
  40. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Maybe that light that we saw was suppose to be a metaphor for Pandora's box. By sending the MIB down the rabbit hole (another interesting metaphor considering the shows obvious ties with Alice in Wonderland) what released was darkness. Which is why if this darkness gets to the outside world, bad things will happen.

    As far as who is the Smoke Monster, the answer is the MIB. His body is gone, and he has a new shape, but is the same person he was before. As he told Ben, he used to be a person.
     
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