Pat White's an athlete, I'm not denying that. I think he's got a specific package of plays that can be valuable. But is adding a throwing element to the wildcat making it more valuable? After all Ronnie Brown threw more completed passes and a TD pass last year out of it; Pat White didn't accomplish either task. If Pat White had made throws like one against North Carolina last year, then I'd feel a heck of a lot better about his role on the team as a QB. I hope he proves me wrong and he gets to that level one day. As for now... As for Thigpen, he started several games for Kansas City, very nearly beating the Pennington-led Dolphins in 2008. He's got a much livelier arm than Pennington at this stage and provides some mobility, and is still a young pup who can be that #2 man for a number of years. I think we both know what kind of competitor Pennington is, and he's going to want to start and I doubt he's a Miami Dolphin after 2010. So that leaves Thigpen vs. White. Thigpen can play in the base offense. Ronnie Brown was essentially better last year in the wildcat doing what Pat White was supposed to do. I know that's an unfair comparison given the number of snaps, but if you can get by on the wildcat the way it was, why mess with it? If that's the case, and you still have Thigpen; what are you really getting from White? Taking snaps from Ronnie Brown in the wildcat? Unless he's moved to receiver, kick returner, something; I think White's role is going to be quite limited, given that we're under the assumption we've got Henne, Thigpen and Pennington on the roster. Sure White can do more than Tyler Thigpen, from a role perspective, but he's not a better Quarterback. He might be someday, but if you've got to start your backup QB for 4-6 weeks this year (say Henne was injured) and Pennington is still rehabbing that shoulder; who are you going to give the keys to the offense to for that month? I think Thigpen gives you a better long-term backup solution than Pat White does, and at this point, it's hard for me to forsee anyone trading for Pennington until after 2010. I think you have to use White as something else or just admit you made a mistake and cut bait.
He had one opportunity to throw a TD pass and overthrew Ted Ginn, the lack of opportunity is not much evidence to point out. Thiggy was 1-12 for KC, and threw two int's in his lone qtr of work in miami in 09, Penny is proven depth who beats Thiggy 10 times out of 10 if his arm is healthy. Thiggy is not going to menace the edge of a defense anytime soon, so where does that leave him in Miami if he cannot beat Penny, and cannot play WC Qb? On the trade block, where he has been rumored to be most of the offseason. That is what Pennington is here for, White is here to provide "chunk" yardage, basically Pennington replaces Thiggy, White retains his role as WC Qb "if" he shows enough in Training Camp. What possible good is to keep Thiggy as a clipboard carrying #2 or #3 Qb when White offers so much more as a WC Qb? As a Qb, Pennington beats him, as an athlete, White beats him, yet two TD's and two int's and he is some solid backup? And that is why he is on the trade block, his strengths are not strong enough imho.
I want a competent all around QB that can come in and win games IF the starter goes down period. I don't want to be stuck with a 1 trick pony experimental player if the worst happens. A #2 QB isn't supposed to give weekly offensive production. That's what your STARTER is for.
I've yet to see anything about Pennington being 100% healthy this year. I remember seeing a quote from Pennington himself saying he was going to take the year to rehab and get ready for 2011 while mentoring Henne, Thigpen, and White. I think you have to keep Thigpen because until proven otherwise, I don't think Pennington is going to be play-ready in 2010, and odds are he's going to have a starting job elsewhere in 2011. If you get rid of Thigpen now and Pat White flops (which, again, let me say I hope he proves me wrong as it would solve the backup QB situation) you're stuck with nothing behind Henne. That's all I've got for today though, off to a family BBQ for Mother's Day. But I do like this nice little debate we've had
I don't know if it's wise for us to pin those or any other decisions we don't agree with on Ireland alone. Parcells told Charlie Casserly during the 2008 season that they were going to draft Pat White. If you believe Gil Brandt....who is in Parcells inner circle.....they signed Wilson to play strong safety. Remember, they signed him before they re-signed Bell. So that whole situation at safety, Parcells was on board with that too. Parcells didn't think Tony McDaniel was worth a 7th round pick, being that he would only allow that deal if Ireland promised to recoup the pick before the draft. Those are just a few examples of 'controversial' transactions. And I'd have a hard time believing Parcells wasn't on board for the team's first major free agent acquisition. That was the first deal of free agency league-wide in 2008. No way they move that quickly without him being fully versed on the player.
I cant really refute those points because neither of us have a strong leg to stand on when it come to this. It's a tough situation for us as a fanbase to get a sense of confidence for our future GM, and I think the size of those 4 contracts, and the level of failure attached to them, is cause for some concern about our future, considering we dont know who the main culprit was , i cant just sweep it under the rug and chalk it up to a numbers game, iam dyin to find out.. The angle I'am takin on this subject, albeit not concrete, basically comes down to the randomness of those mid level free agent picks, I just don't see an obvious correlation to Parcells in those signings, almost like Parcells giving the rookie some bones to play with. I see Parcells being much more involved with the high draft picks such as Taking big Jake and a high round QB {Henne}. I know Iam nitpickin, because Iam thrilled at the overall job that they have done, being one of the youngest teams in the league, and still projecting to do well this year is a great sign, iam just always thinking about the future ya know, and I do worry that the mistakes were Irish's, and the sucesses were Parcells, which is'nt such a far fetched theory, and if that theory is correct, then the worry is a legit reaction imo.
How so? Holub played for the Dallas Texans who became the KC Chiefs. Parmer played for the Eagles and was a personnel man for the Bears.
Yeah you are talking about something that happened after the fact, regardless of what White does. Henne is already #1 and Penny #3 and where White ends up has nothing to do with it.
It may be helpful to run the WC especially if Kevin and Pat Williams are out. That is what we got Ronnie and Ricky for. Pat White does not even need to be on the roster for us to have an effective WC. RB has to be healthy though. You can't hang your hat on Henne or any starting QB to 100% for sure remain healthy all season. Your #2 needs to be the 2nd best QB on the roster. Not some gimmick. If we want a passing threat in the WC, Thigpen could offer that. He at least has proven he can complete passes in the NFL reasonably well and at 225 lbs is strong enough to run it up inside. I've seen you say before that Thigpen isn't fast enough to challenge the flanks and White is. How many times did we ever see Brown take the WC snap, fake it to Ricky and then run a sweep? Not very many if any. The jet motion man is the one who challenges the flanks in the WC not the man taking the snap. Ronnie did fake it sometimes and then cut back to the left outside the tackle but those were not sweeps, and those types of runs, Thigpen has shown in KC that he is plenty fast and quick enough to execute.
When you make comments like this, it just seems to me that you like to argue for the sake of arguing. White has not shown he has so much more, or anything at all more to offer as a WC QB! The WC in Miami goes through Ronnie Brown. When are you going to accept this? In Thigpen's one starting season in KC running mostly a spread, he proved to be a better runner in the league than White has. 6.2 per carry and over 300 yds rushing in 11 starts. So White may be a better athlete. Well lah dee frigging dah. Fat lot of good that has done the team. TT's passing numbers were overall slightly better in 2008, than Henne's were in 2009. So no, his small amount of PT coming in as the 3rd stringer against the Steelers when he'd taken zero offensive snaps in practice that week does not indicate he is a solid backup. That he outperformed Henne's 2009 numbers, in his one season as a starter in KC does prove he is a solid backup. To any rational person anyway. As for Penny, until he shows he is completely recovered from his shoulder injury, he is not a better QB today or for this season, than Thigpen or any other #2 QB in the league. If the already weak armed Penny now has less arm strength than a year ago, and has shown with just typical hits he can get knocked out of a game, how could anyone with any degree of common football sense prefer him to Thigpen?
Padre, you may have inadvertently got me bullish on Pat White again. That draft video had something great in it. Mayock and Gruden said with White on the field in the Wildcat you get one-on-one throws to the outside Wide Receiver all day long. Last year that receiver was Ted Ginn much of the time. Ginn is unreliable at beating the press and unreliable at many routes, and unreliable at winning contested balls if you just chuck it up towards him. He doesn;t dominate in man-to-man. But Brandon Marshall DOES. Wow, the WildPat is actually 1000X more effective with a dominant physical receiver out there, now that I think about it. Pat White, if used again, should have easier, and better throws available to him with Marshall in one-on-one coverage. Marshall makes the whole CONCEPT of the WildPat WORK. Brandon Marshall's pick up REALLY opens the door for Pat White to get more time at Wildcat QB, imo. Really. And could be the best thing to ever happen to Pat White. I'll bet it also crossed Sparano, Ireland and Parcells' minds when they got the big, physical receiver. Oh, and Marshall can run block great... so if Pat White rolls wide, he shouldn;t have a CB in his face. Yeah. I think we see more WildPat in 2010. Thanks for the video, Padre!
White is a much higher liability than he is an asset. If he cant play QB, the team has no need for him
I don't agree yet. If White struggles this pre-season I'll be ready to say he's too much of a project to wait around on. I want to see how much he has processed and progressed this offseason. I'll be he's been working hard.
