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What would a great coach do?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by NJL52, Dec 11, 2007.

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  1. NJL52

    NJL52 New Member

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    I'm not the biggest Cameron supporter, but I'm quite opposite of alot of posters here. I'm kind of at odds with Cam. Not sure what to do, I'll be neutral if he stays or he leaves.

    But I was thinking earlier. If we had a known "good" offensive minded head coach, how would we fair?

    QB: We started with Trent Green. EVERYBODY thought he would be a decent step up. Solid veteran with a good, long career that knew the system. He comes in and plays like a rookie. Throws ridiculous last-prayer like balls at the wrong times. Regardless of how it ended up, this was a good move by Cameron. It just didn't work out right.

    Cleo Lemon- Our best QB since Marino left. Not a playmaker, just a guy who doesn't mess up (as often as we are used to at least.) Wasn't supposed to be the guy. He is currently playing and has started 6 games now because THE TEAM wants to play to win. Veterans have stated that they want the best QB playing, and at the moment, that man is Lemon.

    John Beck - Don't know why he has so many doubters. Here is a stat for ya. Peyton Manning threw 28 picks his rookie year. Quarterback takes time to learn. I wasn't expecting much out of the first few starts. In fact, he was better then I was hoping for.

    Here is a question for ya. When is the last time you seen a Miami Dolphin quarterback make multiple 4th read throws in the same game? Beck was doing it in his first game. Trent Green didn't, Feeley, Fiedler, Griese, Lucas, insert Dolphin QB failure here, none of these guys did it. I'll wait it out with John.

    RB - Ronnie f'in Brown. In his first two years he was above average. The pick seemed like a reach, but to be honest, there wasn't anybody to take over him. So we were kind of forced with him. Regardless, he was averagish his first few years. He showed signs of huge potential, but never came through. This year, he excelled to one of the best in the NFL. He got better and the entire offensive line got much better. This wasn't luck ladies and gentlemen, if you are going to blame all of the bad on Cam then credit him for at least some of the good.

    Chatman, Cobbs, Booker, Gado - All of them are playing satisfactory. None of them have been anything in their careers. And they come here and are above average. Again, thanks to Cameron. They didn't suddenly get good. This offense WORKS.

    WR - Chambers, in my opinion, was the most overrated player we have had in a while. Booker is average. Ginn has been a pleasant surprise at the receiver position. Hasn't been great, but WRs require a QB to excel. Giving him a free pass.

    O-line - Hands down, our best oline since I was old enough to understand football very well(2002ish) Our best lineman? Cam's third rounder.

    Defense - Here is where he gets off by me. It is highly noted that in the NFL, a majority of coaches spent upwards towards 90% of their time on their specific side of the ball while ignoring the other side. The defense isn't his fault, blame Dom.

    Even then; Our very average secondary has been decimated by injuries. Our best player by far has been out all season. Our second best player has been playing extremely average.

    Our twenty million dollar investment was played all wrong. Joey Porter is a pass rusher. He dominated in Pitt as a pass rusher. We are asking him to play linebacker. It isn't that easy of an adjustment. He has grown lately, but it takes time to adjust. He wasn't a bust, so to speak, his bad start is placed solely on Capers shoulders.

    Roth has been below average. Traylor has shown his age. Holiday has lost a step.

    Daniels, Gooden, Lehan, Worrell. They just aren't very good.

    Billichek couldn't do much with this defensive roster.


    In the end, think what would happen if we had an offensive genius on our side.

    Cleo Lemon, Samkon Gado, Marty Booker, Tedd Ginn, Jason Peele. I don't know of anybody who could produce a good team with these guys.


    The biggest thing I hear is "if he can't win a game then he deserves to go." Stupidest **** I have heard. There are a hell of alot of more factors to football then winning and losing. Having players worth a damn and having a defensive coordinator that understands personnel are two key things.

    My plea to you; If you can find something that he has done bad (besides questionable play calls and or game decisions, hindsight is 20-20) then please state it.
     
  2. SMOKE

    SMOKE Member

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    No way Lemon is our best QB since Marino. Fiedler and Frerotte have sadly been the best since Dan retired.
    Beck played better than you expected? He couldn't move the ball. He also looked like he was regressing with all of the turnovers and and a lack of the poise he showed in his first two games. What would he of had to do to not meet your expectations?
    As far as Cameron. Besides his playcalling and other questionable game decisions IMO he screwed up not drafting Quinn. He was also way too easy on the players during offseason workouts. It appears that some of his players have no faith in him either. Traylor's comments made me think some have already given up. I also don't agree with his current QB decisions. He should've stuck with Beck and let him get some experience. Now he's starting Lemon to try to get a win instead of building for the future with Beck. If he doesn't get that win and they go 0-16, Cameron needs to go.
     
  3. Jimmy James

    Jimmy James Ron Swanson

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    Bringing in Trent Green to a team that wasn't a QB away from going deep into the playoffs was idiotic. It's pathetic. I felt about it that way then, and I feel about it the same way now. It's a pity because I think he's a good guy. He just wasn't remotely right for this team. Retaining Joey Harrington would have been just as solid a move given where the team was going to be (and I thought that when I was thinking this was a .500 team). Either way, the QB was a place holder.
     
  4. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger New Member

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    I was opposed to Trent Green if it cost us a pick. For free I would have taken a chance on him. But an older QB who slides dramatically one season almost never returns to his previous form, and Green did not.

    But dumping Joey Harrington was absolutely the proper move. He was #1 on my jettison list after '06. Harrington is a lifetime 5.8 YPPA guy. You can literally find guys who haven't played in 5 years who can better that mark. Last year I broke it down and Harrington is so inept it's something like 80+% of his starts he hasn't managed 7.0 YPPA, which is merely the base number a QB should shoot for, nothing special.

    Harrington did allow me to bet against the Falcons often and successfully this year. I hope he's starting again somewhere in '08.
     
  5. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I am of the same frame of mind as you are. I'm not quite sure whether I want him back or not. I was backing Cam for most of the season, but now I'm starting to question whether he is the guy. I still think I'm leaning towards wanting to see him get a shot with a year under his belt and more talent. History tells us that you can't judge a coach on their first year. There have been some great coaches that won less than three games in their first year with less talent than this team has. I agree with your post as well that no matter who coached this team they would still be in last place.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2007
  6. His'nBeatYour'n

    His'nBeatYour'n Glass Ceiling Repairman

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    Something he has done bad? I can think of 13 right off the bat.

    The bottom line in football is winning games. And that is the head coach's #1 responsibility. His second is team leadership. Player development, and play calling is the responsibility of the coordinators.
    I wouldn't argue against anyone who wants to give Cam credit for the limited successes the offense has had this year. Clock management and game decisions don't bother me because I believe they can be corrected. And even with the limited success I believe that Cam is as good an offensive play caller as anyone since Marino left this team.

    It is not Cam's fault that this team lacks talent. It is his fault he still hasn't squeezed out at least one victory.
    You've got to expect your head coach to pull out a handful of victories every year. Bad luck, injuries, mismatches, are something every head coach faces every year. Cam has shown me zero ability to overcome that. There is a reason for the saying "on any given Sunday any team can beat any other team" because football games aren't played on paper. Every single Friday, Saturday, and Sunday in the fall a team with inferior talent beats a team with superior talent. Why is Cam, who has never shown head coaching talent, the exception?
     
  7. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Even Bobby Petrino, who had Mike vick incarcerated, and had to deal with a locker room mutiny five games into his first season as coach managed to win 3 games. By the way, he had Joey Harrington starting for him.

    We were terrible when we were healthy and we're terrible now. Cameron has not made one move that's worked out. Not one! How is this even possible? He has managed to defy the law of averages.

    He has completely bungled this QB situation and has already doomed us to a similar season next year. Beck will be learning "on the job" next year too and that will be another excuse for the Cam supporters. Where do the excuses end? Why are the posters questioning Cam made to feel stupid for expecting a professional team to win one or two games? I don't get it.
     
  8. NJL52

    NJL52 New Member

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    Argueable. Not worth debating over D+ compared to D or D-.

    A. Look at his weapons. Back up running backs, back up tight ends, back up recievers. And he is a rookie. Simply progressing through his reads is all I want in that situation.

    B. Like I said, Peyton Manning threw 28 picks through 16 games his rookie year. Beck has 3 through 4 games.

    Opinion again, but I side with the rest of the NFL. He fell to 23rd in the draft and hasn't smelt the field for a reason. He wasn't worth the pick. Mueller and Cameron were credited with one thing before cocming here, the ability to scout QBs. I'll take their opinion on this one.

    Learning curve. First time head coachs NEVER get it right. I can't think of a single name that has. That includes Billichek, Parcels, Gibbs, Coughlin and whoever you want to name.

    Byproduct of losing, again, not going to place that completely on his shoulders.

    It's about playing diplomat with your players. The veterans don't want to go 0-16. If he gave up and decided to play towards the future you would have a pissed off teams. Players have came out andd stated that they want the best players playing. You can't go against them in an already weary situation.
     
  9. NJL52

    NJL52 New Member

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    A. Joey Harrington is a product on his own. He sucked, you don't hold three QBs who need to grow on 1 roster.

    B. Bringing in Trent Green served as a mentor to Beck. It is common to bring in a savy and intelligent veteran to help accomodate your young rookie to the game of football. Green wasn't brought in to lead us to the playoffs, it was to teach Beck.
     
  10. NJL52

    NJL52 New Member

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    Agreed with the Harrington choice. Look at the previous post for reply to the Green situation.
     
  11. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Oh come on, this regime (Mueller and Cameron) believed this was potentially a playoff team. That's why they made the moves they did. You don't bring in Porter or trade a pick for Trent Green if you are committed to rebuilding.

    Alot of people are giving these guys credit for rebuilding when no other coach/GM wanted to, which is absolute hogwash. They only traded Chambers, and thus "committed to rebuilding" after they were already 0-6 and looked terrible in virtually every game.

    Mueller shares blame with Cameron but Cam has the ultimate control over game planning and player discipline, both of which have been sorely lacking. How many more times do you need to see this team get penalties at the worst possible time or turn the ball over ad nauseum to put some blame on the head coach?
     
  12. NJL52

    NJL52 New Member

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    Stop being a standard ESPN-worshipping fan. Think above for a minute. Thousands and thousands of things go into playing a football game. Going 0-13 when you inherited a barely better then college team is hard to avoid.

    See the above.

    Leadership takes time for a HC to learn. As I stated earlier, there are very few head coaches who have the mindstate to lead a team perfectly in their first job. It's something you shouldn't expect.

    His play calling has been fine. I'm MUCH happier this year with play calling then I have been the past 3/4 years.

    Agreed.

    Because we are playing back up RBs, WRs, TEs, QBs, LBs, Safeties, CBs, O and D line. The only players this year playing above average are Carey, Satele, Taylor, Will Allen. Everybody else is average or horribly below it. Compare this to any other team in the league. The Falcons have the best CB, a pro bowl LB, a 10,000 yard career rusher, a 1000 yard reciever. The Rams have one of the best RB, WR. etc etc

    There is only so much you can over come.
     
  13. Dolphins77

    Dolphins77 New Member

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    Our offense was getting the job done with our starters, and a first year offensive head coach. We scored 28 points on the Patriots. That's more than we can say about a lot of teams. We also scored 28 on the Jets, 31 on the Browns. Offense did not lose those games. Defense did.
     
  14. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    "Barely better than a college team"? Come on, at least be intelectually honest in your defense of Cameron.

    Every team has injuries and has to play backups at some point. Is Fred Jackson that much different from Samkon Gado or Chatman? Are the no names on Buffalo's defense that much better than our no names? Yet, they are 7-6 and we are 0-13.

    You saw in the game Sunday why this is so. They don't commit stupid penalties, they avoid the backbreaking turnovers and in general, they just don't beat themselves. They are less talented than virtually every team they play. Yet they win.

    Their coach puts his players in the best position to be succesful. They played with a rookie QB and won. They played with a mediocre veteran QB and won. They have 13 players on IR, yet they win.

    Why should I be satisfied when my team can't even win once?
     
  15. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Where was our offense in those games when the game was actually on the line, in the first half. Oh yeah, it was nowhere.

    We put up those numbers in the second halves of those games when the outcome wasn't in doubt. Forgive me for not being that impressed.
     
  16. Dolphins77

    Dolphins77 New Member

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    Well, our offense showed up for more games than our defense did, no one can argue that
     
  17. NJL52

    NJL52 New Member

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    Okay, I'm gunna try again.

    I'm asking for specific examples of what Cameron could improve on. Please don't post "win." I'm not asking for 5th grade level discussions. Prove that you understand football.

    Example:
    You: Porter shouldn't have been brough it. He's old and not part of the rebuilding process.
    Me: Porter is the result of a few things.
    A. Cap space. Ties into the next point, but no veterans want to see unused money.
    B. The 30 year old and older group on this team wants to see competiveness. We had room, he was willing, we could use the spare part, and the veterans want to win.
    C. Capers has misused him. I've said this all along. Capers doesn't understand personnel. He used Thomas as a blitzer last year and the year before too much. He had put too much coverage responsibility on JT. And this year he tried to make a dominant pass rush LB into a 4-3 OLB. Guess what, he was wrong again.
    D. This wasn't supposed to be a rebuilding year. Look at the injuries and misfortunes.
    Trent Green, a former pro bowler, comes in and looks like a rookie.
    Our top 3 NFL RB tears his knee up.
    Chris Chambers/Marty Booker vastly underperform.
    Jason Taylor has an off year.
    Zach Thomas is on IR.
    Jason Allen continues to be a bust.
    Joey Porter is horribly misused and disapears until the last few games.
    Matt Roth degresses.
    Travis Daniels and Goodman both play unsatisfactory.
    Yeremiah Belle, by far our best DB, suffers yet another year ending injury.

    Out of our 4 best players, three are on IR(ZT, Belle, RB) and one is having a career down year. Almost all of our roll players on defense are playing below what they should (except for Will Allenn, Crowder and maybe Holiday)




    Now please, give me something intelligeble to talk about.
     
  18. rvicious

    rvicious New Member

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    Quit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup:
     
  19. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    All these guys under performing, isn't that on the coach? We gave Saban alot of credit for bringing JT to new heights, why isn't if fair to blame Cameron for his regression, or the regression of other players?

    If a coach isn't responsible for the progression of his players, then what is he responsible for? By your argument it doesn't matter who the coach is and if that's the case then what difference would it make if we fired Cameron?

    You obviously think that Cameron has the ability to bring something positive to the team and not just be a random guy on the sidelines. What have you seen, and I'm talking about evidence, not hope, that he has the ability to make a positive impact on this team?
     
  20. NJL52

    NJL52 New Member

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    Difference? The Bills are MUCH more talented then us.

    Lee Evans, Josh Reed, Roscoe Parrish are all better then our recievers. Robert Royal is a sizeable step up from our TEs. Fred Jackson is on par with our back ups. But Marshawn is much better then any of our current RBs.

    Jason Peters is much better then any of our linemen. The left guard was on par with Satele and Carey. Didn't notice much about the rest of their line.

    Trent Edwards, while still a rookie, got to play against our sorry defense. Two 100 yard rushers and a dbackfield on 9th string safeties makes passing much easier.

    Terrance McGee is better then WAllen, Greer better then the rest of our CBs. Wilson and Simpson are better then our safetys. Aaron Schobel is better then all our linemen except JT.

    If you disagree with any of these comparisons, please point them out.
     
  21. NJL52

    NJL52 New Member

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    Defense has been the source of underperforming players. And as I stated earlier(God I feel repetitive), most NFL coaches stay on their strength and leave the coordinator take ovver the other half. And I don't like Capers...at all.

    Offense has taken leap and bounds forward. Look at our lineup.

    Trent Green played bad, but it was because of HIS bad decisions on throwing the ball. Do you not remember him throwing it up off his backfoot, hoping for a miracle like 4 times in one game? He just fell apart ON HIS OWN.

    Cleo Lemon has played on par with our best QBs since Marino left. Given the talent around him, that is an accomplishment.

    Ronnie Brown was a Pro Bowler earlier this season.

    Jessie Chatman is playing at a C level right now with D talent. Samething with the rest of our RBs.

    Ginn has shown signs of being a future good reciever.

    Hagan has grown a bit. Still don't think he will be a good NFL reciever, but he is better then last year.

    Our Oline is the best it has been in 5/6 years.

    In the end, we don't have a single offensive skilled player (playing right now) that would be offered a roster spot on the Patriots, Colts or Cowboys. Expecting anything out of this group is a pure reach.
     
  22. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Outside of Lee Evans, I don't see much difference. Schoebel and Denney are OK, but are they that much better than roth, holliday, etc.?

    Their secondary is average at best. Not that much better than ours.

    What about the other 5 times Edwards has won a game? He beat the Jets, something our rookie QB failed to do (or our veteran QB for that matter)
     
  23. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So, do you think Cam is responsible for anything?

    How did Petrino manage to cobble together a few wins with Harrington at QB? Their receivers are terrible too and their running game took a nose dive. Our record was quite similar to the Falcons last year.

    You say the offense is "leaps and bounds" better than last year, but it isn't. the numbers don't bear it out. and again, you put no blame on Cam for Green's struggles. He was the one who wanted Green. Why not stick with Harrington or Culpepper who could've done the same things?

    Let me put the question to you this way, if Michigan's AD called you and asked if you reccomend Cameron for the Michigan job, what would you tell him?
     
  24. NJL52

    NJL52 New Member

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    Edwards threw 4 picks and 1 td through 4 games. Beck threw 0 td and 3 picks through 4 games. Edwards had a better running game and better recievers.
     
  25. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I respect your opinion man, I really do, but we disagree.

    When do the excuses end? Every team faces adversity and the good coaches overcome it. Can we at least agree that Jauron has done a good job in Buffalo with a below average (talent wise) team?

    Can we at least agree that it would have been nice to see Cam have some success under the adversity he had faced? Wouldn't that give you more confidence that he has the tools to be a good coach?
     
  26. NJL52

    NJL52 New Member

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    Yes, Cameron is responsible for the offensive grown.

    It's about relativity, not absolute. Focus on this:

    We do not have a single skilled player on offense that would be offered a roster spot on the Patriots, Colts or Cowboys roster.

    What would expect a group of career back ups and practice squad players to do if they were to compile and create their own NFL team? Win games? I would expect getting shut out every game.


    We went 4-12 last year and we lost our 2 best recievers, best tight end, best 2 rbs and both our QBs. And our defense went from being one of the best to one of the worst.
     
  27. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We were 6-10. And we didn't win any games when our offense was performing well in your eyes.

    It's easy to single out the 3 best teams in the league and say none of our guys could play for them. I agree. Could ginn play for Atlanta? Could Chatman play for Green Bay?

    You also haven't stated what positives Cam brings to the table. I understand that we are injured. What is he doing right now to help this team win?
     
  28. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Also, how about the Raiders? Think they could use Carey? Or Ginn?
     
  29. His'nBeatYour'n

    His'nBeatYour'n Glass Ceiling Repairman

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    How am I an ESPN worshipping fan? I've watched every quarter of every Dolphins football game since 1994. I bleed aqua and orange.

    Cam inherited a team that won 6 NFL games. You're just lowering the bar here.

    How is expecting to eek out a single win the same as expecting perfection? Cam was an unimpressive head coach at Indiana, a highly praised "leader" of the San Diego offense, what does he still need to learn?

    4 players playing above average is an indication that their leader doesn't have the first clue how to motivate and lead a football team.

    Yet Wannstedt and Bates overcame similar problems in 2004 to muster 4 wins in 4 games with less talent, including against the Super Bowl champion Pats. Cam hasn't overcome it once. You don't judge a rookie head coach on his first 8 games though 0 for 8 tells you something isn't quite clicking, you judge him on his last 8. He is 0-5 in those, is losing the team, and the one time promising o-line is regressing.

    Bad teams win every weekend in football. But not in Indiana when Cam was coaching a team that had "no talent", and not in Miami this year.

    Are we sensing a pattern?
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2007
  30. NJL52

    NJL52 New Member

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    Bleh same difference. The last 6 years have been coalesced into one big beating as far as south Florida sports teams go to me.

    Of course a practice team player could play on another team with defficiencies at the same position. The point was that we don't have any good players.

    The difference between us and Atlanta and Greenbay and Oakland is that they have other players.

    Atlanta has a damn good TE, a top 3 NFL CB, a dominant pass rusher, a solid LB core, a 1000 yard reciever(White), and 2 other solid WR(Jenkins and Horn)

    Greenbay has a top 3 NFL QB, three good WRs and a solid tight end. And they have a damn good defense on top of that.

    Oakland has a damn good rushing game, one of the best linebacker cores, and two damn good DBS(Asomugha and Huff)

    Find me a team with anywhere near the talent(or lack there of) all around as us. There are teams with defficiencies at certain positions, but nobody with all around emptiness like us.

    Yea I have, over and over. He turned Ronnie Brown into one of the leagues best and has our practice squad scoring points on real NFL teams.
     
  31. NJL52

    NJL52 New Member

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    They are grown men. Motiviting is key to highschool and college teams. There arn't many motivator head coaches in the NFL.

    Less talent? Are you kidding me. We had the number 8 defense that year. Zach Thomas, Jason Taylor, Pat Surtain, Sam Madison, Sammy Knight, Arturo Freeman, Junior Seau, Morlon Greenwood, Tim Bowens, Larry Chester, Jay Williams, David Bowens, Jeff Zgonina. Every single one of those names was better then what we currently are fielding this year. All 11 positions.

    Offense we had Randy McMike having a career year, Chambers having a career year, Booker exceling in his lessened roll, a RB by commitee like we are having now and a QB position comparable to this seasonn.
     
  32. His'nBeatYour'n

    His'nBeatYour'n Glass Ceiling Repairman

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    Cam inherited a 6 win team, improved the offense and managed to not win a single game. Hooray.

    Ronnie Brown was a 1st round pick, finally playing behind a decent offensive line. I'll give Cam credit, but he didn't work any miracles there.

    What practice squad player is scoring points?

    It is always very easy to see talent when teams are winning and to discount it when teams are losing.

    When you see so many players on a team have their performance drop from one year to the next, you blame coaching.
     
  33. NJL52

    NJL52 New Member

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    Because Capers f'd up the defense.

    In case you don't remember the first 8 or so games. The story of the year was how well we were scoring points while the defense kept ****ing gammes up. 20, 28, 31, 28, 17, 19, 13 etc. Then Ronnie gets hurt, we trade CC, Green gets hurt. Now we are left with the practice squad and the numbers have dwindled.

    Cam deserves all the credit for RB. He signed the no name lineman, scouted and drafted Satele, put in the offensive scheme, got RB doinng the right things. RB went from a career 4.3 rb to a 5.1 this year. Every team knew he was our focus on offense and they still couldn't stop him. Ronnie Browns growth is Camerons doings.

    And about the talent drops; I KNOW. I am blaming coaching. I don't like Dom Capers. I want him gone. The defense the past 2 years was Sabans doings, not Capers. If it were my choice I'd fire Capers this offseason and hire somebody new.

    All of teh defensive short comings of the past year I have been blaming our defensive coaching. Even our players were calling him out earlier this year. Vonnie was complaining about the assignments. I complain about personnel usage. We all complain about the results.
     
  34. His'nBeatYour'n

    His'nBeatYour'n Glass Ceiling Repairman

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    New York
    Motivating is the key to any leadership position. From the board room to the locker room, grown men and women need a leader to follow. The leader of the Dolphins has lead them to 13 losses, no wins. But in his dual roll as offensive coordinator, there has been marginal improvement. The league is littered with coordinators who couldn't make the jump to head coach. Through 13 games Cam has shown he is no different.

    I wasn't comparing the talent level of 04 to 07. I was comparing the Dolphins in 04 to the teams they beat.

    But you are still lowering the bar when you call players like Greenwood, J. Williams and Freeman talent. And Chamber's career year was in 05 when he made the Pro Bowl. Not the year he caught 69 passes in a season the Dolphins spent throwing from behind all year.

    Is there any bar you can set that doesn't allow Cam to go sailing over?
     
  35. NJL52

    NJL52 New Member

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    But you are still lowering the bar when you call players like Greenwood, J. Williams and Freeman talent.


    I said they are better then their equivalents. Jay Williams was a rotational player. He was better then Rod Wright. Arturo Freeman was better then Cameron Worrell. Morlon Greenwood was better then Donnie Spragan.




    And Chamber's career year was in 05 when he made the Pro Bowl. Not the year he caught 69 passes in a season the Dolphins spent throwing from behind all year.



    900 yards is more then acceptable in my book. Certainly better then the 500 that Booker/Ginn are on pace for.



    Is there any bar you can set that doesn't allow Cam to go sailing over?



    ....You guys are calling for the mans head due to the defense falling apart and us not being able to outscore our opponments with career backups. I'm stating that NOBODY in the NFL is capable of getting much more out of this team then Cam is.

    Is there any bar you can set that doesn't make Cam wish he had said "**** that I'll stay in San Diego" ?
     
  36. His'nBeatYour'n

    His'nBeatYour'n Glass Ceiling Repairman

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    In 2005 when the offense was flailing, the players and the fans looked to Dick Saban to see when he was going to get things corrected. He shook things up, brought Linehan to the sidelines, the offense improved dramatically, and the Dolphins won the final 6 games.

    2007, the defense is flailing, and no one expects the head coach to do anything? Players have been sniping about coaching all year, and Cam hasn't fixed a thing. He's lost this team. Before he even made it a full year, he lost this team.

    If all these Capers problems are so obvious to the fans, how come Cam can't see it?
     
  37. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Capers f'ked up the defense? Was it his fault Cameron sat down all of our KEY VETERAN DEFENSIVE players in the preseason? Was it his fault that Bell got injured, Zach has been out a ton of games, and Matt Roth has been a huge failure?
     
  38. nstand

    nstand New Member

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    I agree with nearly everything you have said. Jason Allen has been ok though and hasnt been picked on anything like Worrel/Schultz has been.
     
  39. Dolphins77

    Dolphins77 New Member

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    I agree 100%.

    Dom has not seen enough blame for this years catastrophe. He deserves more blame than Cam for the situation we're in. Dom hasn't won one game as defensive coordinator for the Dolphins. Cam has at least kept us in enough games by putting points on the board with the offense.
     
  40. NJL52

    NJL52 New Member

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    Your telling me that you think Cameron hasn't noticed that we are 32nd in the league in rush defense?

    Cam sees it clearly. He just can't fix it.

    Our secondary is the main problem. We can't cover anybody one on one so we have to keep 4 back to cover a 2 wr set. We bring a safety into the box and we get beat through the air.

    So we are playing 7 vs 8 against the run. With our run stopper out, Crowder not exceling, Porter playing LB instead of pass rusher, Spragan not being good, taylor having a down year, Traylor getting older and not much depth at DT, the result is that we lose that 7vs8 constantly.

    Now we can't stop the run and when teams want to pass they get away with passing just as easily.
     

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