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Official WWE/TNA Wrestling Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by alen1, Mar 25, 2008.

  1. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Not much to be honest with you. It's been a long time since their January Monday night show so all of the excitement from that show is gone. Now they don't have anymore surprise returns (unless the RVD rumors are true) they have to focus on the talent they have now which isn't strong enough to compete with the WWE especially during the build up to WM.
     
  2. TheAnswer385

    TheAnswer385 Stay Low Run Free

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    I dont think tna has been half bad as of late, and am a little more curious to see what they do than wwe. Mr Anderson has been a gem pickup IMO, I really like what they are letting him do.
     
  3. charlestonphan

    charlestonphan Junior Member

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    i have always thought Anderson had a good look about him and could really get under peoples skin with his act, which is a good thing.

    but he has always been his own worst enemy, and even though i am enjoying his current angle with, uhhhhhh, Angle, i am waiting for him to either get hurt again or do something dumb.

    it is a tossup which will come first.
     
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  4. charlestonphan

    charlestonphan Junior Member

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    i like some of what TNA is doing, but have a few general observations;

    Desmond Wolfe is never going to get over big until he stops talking like the Geico Gekko. i am a fan of his in-ring ability, but he has an annoying voice that doesn't intimidate anyone.

    Hogan and Flair as a one shot deal is ok, but ANYTHING beyond a once in awhile match for either one is a bad idea. but i get why they are doing it tonite for the first head to head matchup.

    i think the Pope is a decent wrestler, but his character is just dumb. but what do i know, he seems to be over.

    Abyss seems really out of place to me in the main event with Styles, Flair, and Hogan. and i am pretty sure that we will see Flair do the honors for either Hogan or Abyss.

    Angelina Love has probably tattooed herself out of ever making big money in WWE. Vince doesn't seem to like his Divas with alot of ink, even though the male wrestlers are showing more and more. i think other than that she could do well with WWE.

    paying guys like Waltman and Hall can only hurt TNA. they dont have the money to waste on bums like that.

    having the Nasty Boys go over ANYBODY on their roster is dumb. add them to the "why are they being paid?" category above. but i know the answer already; F.O.H. (Friends Of Hulk)
     
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  5. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    I am almost positive that the Nasty Boys are a short term deal just to help put over the other teams for a little while and then will be off tv, hopefully for good.

    I think Pope has been an awesome character and a great wrestler for a long while now. He is a great talker and I think Hogan and Co., is behind him. I sense him being a world champion down the road. Wolfe is great as well. Horrible name he had to overcome, but I like his gimmick overall and will be the future of TNA along with The Pope and AJ (who is is the present as well).

    I'm concerned that Samoa Joe looks to be on the outs, but hopefully it is a short term thing and a lsight repackaging will bring him up strong.

    As for what to see tonight. I would expect a surprise or two from TNA. RVD is rumored to be there tonight and if true, the return of Mr. Monday Night would be a pretty big deal. Enough for me to tune in and see what happens. Not sure if any of the recent WWE layoffs will be allowed to pop up on Impact or not, but if so, I would expect someone like Helms or Haas to show up.

    I expect Raw to be par for the course. They may take a step back and come back next week with Austin as the guest host and try to blow TNA out of the water.
     
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  6. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I wonder just how good RVD can be in the ring right now since I believe he's over 40 and the stuff he's used to doing had to have taken a lot out of his body no matter how much rest he got in the past couple of years. He's never been the anything more than a spot fest wrestler so if he has to tone down his act he could be exposed very quickly. Even if he is back full time, I don't think he'll make a big impact with TNA in terms of ratings or even buyrates. Obviously he was very popular when he was with the WWE but he has never a big draw.

    But that fits perfectly with what TNA is trying to do by wasting money and bringing in guys well past their primes instead of being 100% committed to getting their own home grown guys over based on the in ring product instead of names since they can't compete with the WWE on star power alone.
     
  7. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    When you are a fledgling company though, you need to make a splash as early and often. The key is to get as much off of those established names and use your own talent to go over them. That way, you kind of show the audience that the homegrown talent is on equal or greater footing than the outsourced guys.

    WWE was always really good about that. They brought guys in and either completely repackaged them, or if they were well enough known, they were torn down and rebuilt up in Vince's image before having any success on WWE's watch (see Booker T). Were everyone else fails, TNA included, is that they bring the big name in and push them to the moon over their own talent which just hammers home that the WWE is the big leagues and they are not. They seem to finally start doing things the proper way recently, but they still need to do a better job of it.
     
  8. TheAnswer385

    TheAnswer385 Stay Low Run Free

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    Solid start to TNA IMO...Surprised that they had them out there at the start but also figured something like that would happen also. I thought Hogan was going to say we will finish this at the next ppv, but I was wrong. WWE starts with Undertaker ...I'm liking my DVR right about now.
     
  9. TheAnswer385

    TheAnswer385 Stay Low Run Free

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    About as big of a pop that you can get from the TNA crowd when RVD came out.
     
  10. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    So, the official combatants for MitB: Evan Bourne, MVP, Kane, Matt Hardy, Shelton Benjamin, Christian, Jack Swagger, and Dolph Ziggler.
     
  11. charlestonphan

    charlestonphan Junior Member

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    so long as anybody but Kane or Hardy win, it automaticaly elevates them.
     
  12. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    I want Shelton to win, but it'll most likely be Christian.
     
  13. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    i guess vince is finally too old to rock the tank tops lol
     
  14. TheAnswer385

    TheAnswer385 Stay Low Run Free

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    If you happen to watch both shows watch for the first break after the hour...They were fighting for second commercial. TNA kept adding after the sting RVD "match" so people wouldn't tune in to the Orton Handicapped match and then WWE added a Bautista interview. I think its funny how they try and do stuff like that.
     
  15. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    ECW got over on their talent alone and not by having any big names but you could credit the hardcore product for a lot of that and they're probably the exception.

    I think TNA would have been fine with just bringing in Hogan though and leave him as a commissioner type role, they don't need all of the other dead weight like the Nasty Boys, X-Pac, Hall, Shannon Moore and dare I say it Ric Flair. I just think they're wasting valuable TV time with guys that won't help the talent they have now or the company in the future and really there's no upside to having them around.

    I'd be surprised if anyone other than Christian wins it. Since none of the other guys in the match have a real shot at a long term future with the company (besides possibly MVP). It's actually a pretty weak group.
     
  16. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I didn't see either show tonight, but read the reviews. Sounds like TNA was a bit of a mess in the beginning and the RVD/Sting match lasted a whole 2 moves? Weird.

    I heard the HBK/UT promo was very good. And it's interesting to see where they're going with the Orton/Legacy feud.
     
  17. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Interestingly enough, Kofi was involved with the Vince/Batista/Cena program, running into try and save Cena in a failing effort.
     
  18. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    I watched Impact almost exclusively tonight. Chalk it up to the first night and pretty much guaranteed surprises/debuts, and I was ready to settle in for the duration. Plus...Criss Angel is pretty much the opposite of an attraction for me when it comes to ratings and staying tuned in.

    Anyhow, Impact was entertaining throughout. I thought they did a fairly good job of getting some of their younger talent over and perhaps a tad too reliant on the elder statesmen, but overall, well done.

    The Good:
    -X-Division match. Daniels, Kazarian and Williams had a fantastic match and made me yearn for more. If the X division can go back to this each and every week...I am a happy camper.

    -The Pope/Desmond Wolfe fued. The two just seem to click together, be it backstage promos, brawls or in ring matches. I am happy to see them continue on and I could see these two having a lengthy bloodfued that spans out over time. Similar to HHH/Rock of yesteryear or Orton and Cena currently. Not always against each other, but always aware of one another and the hatred is mutual throughout.

    -Beautiful People being showered with champagne. Yes, it was cheap and I am a guy...sue me

    -RVD debuting to a HUGE pop. He pretyt much squashed Sting, but i tmade sense considering the story they were telling.

    -Hogan/Flair blade jobs. These two don't do too much well in the ring anymore...but bleeding has never been a problem for them. Flair tapped an artery tonight and Hogan opened himself up twice. In many ways, I felt like these two were trying to show the younger guys how to do it. Hopefully they got the message so that they don't have ot keep showing us in the ring down the road...

    -Wolfe/Styles/Flair alliance. I like the idea of Wolfe being AJ's second, similar to Arn Anderson and Flair. Obviously people will draw a Horsemen comparison but I think it would be great to see Flair be the mentor to both of these guys and keep his stable of proteges small and exclusive. The storylines that open up for this little faction are seemingly endless if they go forward with it.

    -No Nasty Boyz! No Orlando Jordan!

    The Bad:
    -TOO much Hogan. I didn't mind the opening or closing segments. But I thought having him in backstage skits with Bubba, Abyss, Brooke Hogan and Earl Hebner AND coming out to confront Sting later in the show was a tad much. I know they are using him as a figure head, but all of that was unneeded, and i threw off the timing for the end of the show which I will touch on later.

    -The Band. I have ot admit, this is tough for me to write. I have pretyt much been a Scott Hall mark for a LONG time. I always thought he was, in many ways, a prototypical modern day wrestler. Tall, strong, could talk really well and has a charisma about him that is natural and polarizing. Unfortunately, the man hs let himself go in more ways than one and should not be allowed anywhere near a ring. I have a feeling that he and Waltman are going to be done after the PPV, which, I suppose is for the best. The segment just looked sad to me and I think the players involved kind of knew it too. Probably best for them to just move on after this story arc is complete.

    -No Samoa Joe...again. Either they are repackaging him, or is is WAY in the dog house. My guess is, they want him to lose weight. Just a hunch, nothing to base that on.

    -Awesome Kong is gone from TNA. With them crowning new Knockout tag champs and Bubba being on the air, it is pretty evident that Awesoem Kong is now gone from TNA. That is a pretty big blow to the Knockouts division as she was...well, awesome in the ring.

    THE UGLY:

    -Production. A couple of mess ups that I caught. They cut to a random shot of Bischoff backstage during Kevin Nash's entrance, which pretty much tipped me off that he would be involved later in the segment (he was). Sting "grabbing" Dixie by the throat was poorly executed and probably should have been written out of the script since, even as a heel, Sting's character probably doesn't do that. And of course, all the timing made for Impact to have to end the program right before Hardy hit the Swanton Bomb, which I have a sneaking suspicion, was supposed to be how the show ended.

    -Jeff Jarrett's segment. I know that he is supposed ot be fueding with Bischoff/Hogan...and I know Foley is too...but why is Foley a special ref for Jarrett's handicap match against Bee rMoney who were faces just last week? I like the hired guns thing for Beer Money, but that segment was just...off. Too many mving parts. Sometimes the best stories are simple ones.

    Overall though, the scattershot booking seemed to work for me. Angle/Anderson was pretty well done, although it seemed more like a blowoff to a fued than one that is being advanced. And Sting's beatdown of RVD was effective since the crowd went from cheering him at the start of the match, to chanting "you suck" after his beatdown, but it really seemed to cut the legs out from RVD's debut, and what is worse, it seemed to further the impeding angle between Sting and HOGAN, instead of Sting and RVD.

    Oh and Shannon Moore has an X Division title shot at the next ppv. I got to thinking about it...that guy may be employed more than any other wrestler without seemingly ever wrestling. That dude is a flipping genius! And that spot would have been better for RVD in my opinion, but he debuted higher up, so I wont complain.

    I also would love to see Hernandez, Homicide and Morgan be involved...not to mention the MCMG and Generation Me, but it was the first show and there was a ton to get to. But going forward, TNA needs to phase out the following:

    Hall, Waltman, Knobbs, Sags, Hogan, Jordan, Nash, Sting, Bubba, Foley, Jarrett, Dudleys

    and make sure to utilize the following more often:
    Morgan, Hernandez, Homicide, Kazarian, Motor City Machine Guns, Generation Me, Pope, Wolfe

    Morgan, Hernandez, Styles, The Pope and Wolfe look like they could be top tier main eventers for years along with Styles and Joe and Homicide, Kazarian, the MCMG and Generation Me will fill out the X Division and Tag divisions respectively. Hell, even Morgan/Hernandez, the current champs are a great team.
     
  19. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yeah I thought that was a little out of left field there but maybe they're trying to give him the rub by hanging with the big boys.
     
  20. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Ratings are in Raw = 3.4 and Impact = 1.0.

    Ouch. Raw was going to win, obviously. But Impact HAD to expect at least a 1.3 for all the hype they got. A 1.0 is the average on Thursdays...at the cost of a live show.

    Hopefully there were a couple of segments that garnered a higher rating and they can build on those. Otherwise...if names like Hogan vs. Flair can't garner a larger rating than what they already have...then they will have ot try something else I would imagine.

    But knowing Hogan he will chalk it up to not enough of him and make sure that there is plenty of him next time.
     
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  21. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I'm actually not shocked at the ratings. TNA waited way too long for running another Monday show and lost all of the momentum and buzz they had. But it's ok they're apparently going to bring in Spike Dudley and Kenny Dystra, I smell a 1.1 for sure next Monday.

    EDIT: Just read that TNA's actual rating was .98 not a 1.0 which is being reported.
     
  22. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    It is rounded up due to statistical anomolies. And I don't think they "waited" too lon as you put it. Advertising dollars and programming for television is set weeks, if not months in advance. This was probably the earliest they could get back on Mondays.

    And lets not fool ourselves, Raw pulled a pretty bad ratiing for themselves heading into the biggest yearly event. a 3.4 right now is pretty low as well.

    I guess, if nothing else, it pretty much proves that the number of viewers shared between the companies isn't a whole lot, considering that this is right around where TNA usually ends up and Raw, was actually slightly down.

    Hopefully both get stronger going forward. Raw should have a clear cut advantage next week with Impact being taped and them already announcing three big time matches.
     
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  23. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    Am I the only one who could see Stone Cold naming himself Special Guest Referee for the Bret / Vince WM match? After watching Vince "stack the deck" against Cena last week I could see Stone Cold inserting himself in some fashion, especially considering his history with both men.
     
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  24. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    That would be interesting dynamic. Stone Cold feuded with both Bret Hart and Vince McMahon. I can see Austin running a promo stating that while he always hated Bret, he hates Vince that much more, something to that effect.
     
  25. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Whatever the reason may be the long lay off hurt TNA. Maybe Spike and TNA should have done a better job with the planning of these shows. Again though I think everyone was getting way ahead of themselves with the whole Monday Night Wars Part 2. I think it's really interesting to see that TNA's lowest rated segments were the ones with Hogan in them, read into that whatever way people want.

    RAW's ratings was a slight drop from the previous weeks but only lost about 300k viewers from this Monday's to last. Should be interesting to see what RAW does next week and if they rebound.
     
  26. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    I only have a passing interest in the product these days, but the Cena / Batista dynamic has been handled well. The promos between them have been pretty money. HBK and Taker is also being handled quite well. It's a guilty pleasure, but I'm enjoying the Hart / McMahon dynamic.

    You have to think that Stone Cold being guest host will be good for a big rating as well. I'm actually considering buying 'Mania, something I haven't done in about 3 years.
     
  27. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Mania's lineup looks great right now if you ask me. They will add a Punk/Misterio match to probably round it out, but short of that, it looks great nonetheless.

    And I expect Raw to do better next week. I already know what happens on TNA next week, so I am pretty much going to be focused on watching Austin and his shenanigans.
     
  28. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    TNA IMO, was WCW incarnate. As big of a fan of Hogan as I am. I want him off the air. He's so old, and he looks terrible. Same with Flair.
     
  29. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I agree. It's sad watching Ric Flair's old body 'move' around the ring and really hurting his image as one of the greatest wrestlers ever. Hopefully we won't have to watch a half crippled, balding, slow, fat HBK still wrestling in 15 years.
     
  30. DenverDolfan

    DenverDolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, as much a fan of HBK as I may be, even I have to admit he is already half-crippled, slow(er) and balding (bald). At least he's not fat.
     
  31. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Haha good point but he can still perform in the ring when it counts, which is all that really matters. I actually have been told by someone that works for the WWE that HBK is well aware he's starting to bald and that's why he wears cowboy hats, the DX snow cap and badanas all the time now. The WWE also touches up any pictures they take in magazines so it doesn't look him he's losing hair.

    I just hope when he finally retires and stays retired and doesn't keep coming back to fight just for a paycheck and in process hurts his legacy.
     
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  32. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Michaels has addressed his thinning hair on tv for years...no real revelation there. Chris Masters made mention of it during his first go round with the company and HHH always pokes fun of it when they are together.

    To me, HBK is probably the greatest performer of all time. Better than Flair, Savage, Steamboat or anyone else you want to throw into the conversation. I also don't think he is going to be wrestling on any level within two years. I could be wrong, but he seems intent on fading away and perhaps only making a few choice appearances (non wrestling related).

    As for Flair/Hogan and Impact...of course they looked bad physically. Both have looked awful in the ring for a LONG time, so to think that they would look anything better than awful was probably foolish. However, I will give them credit for giving an inspired effort. Being a hard worker and being a good worker are two different things...and both worked HARD on Monday and tapped a vein or two (mainly to add color and drama to a match where blood helped cover up their slow moving, old man wrestling).

    I truly think that both of them felt like they had to show the younger guys that this means something and that even the old guys can still amp up their games when need be. I doubt very seriously you will see Hogan in a ring again anytime soon in a wrestling capacity, especially since the ratings show that fans are pretty much sick of seeing him and Flair in the ring.
     
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  33. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I think you can make a strong argument that Ric Flair is the greatest performer ever over HBK but it is pretty close. In terms of overall total package (not just in-ring performance) I don't think Michaels is better than Flair in that regard.
     
  34. TheAnswer385

    TheAnswer385 Stay Low Run Free

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    TNA has to be embarrassed with that rating and has to be feeling a little hopeless.

    PS the I hated the Brooke Hogan bit when she was crying telling Daddy to hang it up...It was like nails on a chalkboard.
     
  35. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    They should be embarrassed that their lowest segments were when the Hogan/Flair stuff was on screen. While their highest ratings were during the Sting/RVD 'match'.

    Also it looks like the WWE is going to continue the RAW Guest Hosting they have people booked up until mid April right now.
     
  36. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    My problem with Flair is that he tends to have the same match and the same spots throughout. Whethr it was a 10 minute match or a 60 minute match, the same exact formula was used. Bret Hart suffered from the same thing (hence the 5 moves of doom moniker).

    HBK is able to adapt to any style. He could hang with the luchadores (Flair never could), he could go with the strong style of puroresu (Flair could) and he is one of, if not, the best promo man of the modern era (Flair was way back when, but his promos have become rambling, nonsensical parodies of himself).

    HBK could pull a great match out of just about anyone, as could Flair back in the day...but he would change how the much was structured based on the strengths of the opponent. Flair...as I said, used the same formula throughout.

    Don't get me wrong, Flair is one of the best ever, but my money goes to Michaels.
     
  37. charlestonphan

    charlestonphan Junior Member

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    HBK promos have never done much for me. plus his lack of professionalism for most of his career, refusing to put people over or even work with them, faking injuries and walking away from the business when he was World Champ, and drug issues all make me shy away from calling him the greatest.

    but even if we are talking in-ring only, who has been "made" by wrestling a program with HBK? who did he elevate beside himself? he doesnt even come close to Flair in that regard. not saying he hasnt elevated anyone, but Flair made everyone believe that guys like Ricky Morton, Hawk, and Lex Lugar were all going to take the strap from him back in the day.

    i definitely see the point of Flair's matches being repetitive, but one could say the same thing for HBK's mini-Hogan knip up into the big comeback as well. i think in that regard Bret Hart's matches were less repetitive than Michael's, and his style was far more belivable than either Flair or Michael's.

    but that may be due to having cut his teeth in Stampede.
     
  38. charlestonphan

    charlestonphan Junior Member

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    HBK promos have never done much for me. plus his lack of professionalism for most of his career, refusing to put people over or even work with them, faking injuries and walking away from the business when he was World Champ, and drug issues all make me shy away from calling him the greatest.

    but even if we are talking in-ring only, who has been "made" by wrestling a program with HBK? who did he elevate beside himself? he doesnt even come close to Flair in that regard. not saying he hasnt elevated anyone, but Flair made everyone believe that guys like Ricky Morton, Hawk, and Lex Lugar were all going to take the strap from him back in the day.

    i definitely see the point of Flair's matches being repetitive, but one could say the same thing for HBK's mini-Hogan knip up into the big comeback as well. i think in that regard Bret Hart's matches were less repetitive than Michael's, and his style was far more belivable than either Flair or Michael's.

    but that may be due to having cut his teeth in Stampede.
     
  39. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I actually think based on pure workrate/wrestling skills (and also who I'd rather watch if I could only chose 1 wrestler) the better wrestler would be Shawn Michaels. Like you said Michaels could do things just as good as Flair and also could go the high flying route too, something Flair obviously could never do. Can you even imagine Flair taking a bump from a cage to an announce table? Or doing a moonsault/big splash off of a ladder?

    But in terms of overall package, I think Ric Flair is better or more of a complete wrestler only because I think Flair's promos were better (even though he's a walking parody like you said now). I've never been a huge HBK promo fan, I liked his stuff as a heel in 97/98 and anything he did with Bret but everything else never thrilled me like Flair in his prime or even The Rock or Austin (before he turned into a parody too). I also think what hurts HBK is that he bombed as champion each time he was given the belt, while Flair was just a huge draw in his day for 3 companies back when being the champion actually meant something. But that's like saying Ted Williams is the best hitter of all time but Willie Mays was the best all around player.

    It is too bad HBK had that 4 year lay off because it would have been interesting to see how he performed in the Attitude Era (although one can argue that he could have turned out like Pillman, Rude, Hennig or Hawk) since everyone feels that break from wrestling saved his life. Still it would have been great to see a healthy HBK fight Austin a few more times as well as The Rock, Foley, and Triple H (back when he was the best worker on the planet).

    But it's a fun discussion to have.
     
  40. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Dec 9, 2007
    Agreed on HBK's promos, as I stated in my last post.

    I will say that Flair had his moments where he refused to drop titles and used his backstage power to push his friends or depush guys he didn't like. But then again it's wrestling so who didn't do that? But I will agree that HBK's 'personal demons' and his backstage ego was a big problem. Seriously think about this for a second, before HBK's comeback in 2002 he had won the IC title 3 times, World title 3 titles, Tag titles once and the European title and out of those 8 titles he only laid down 3 times to Jannetty, Sid and Austin (I don't count him 'losing' to Triple H since he pretty much handed the belt to him). The other 5 times he was either 'hurt' or 'vacanted' (aka refused to lose) the title. That's a pretty big deal and probably a big reason why HBK never elevated anyone. I've been trying to think of something and honestly can't. The few times HBK was suppose to help his opponents he ended up stealing the show on them instead (Ramon, Diesel, Vader come to mind right away).

    You also missed Flair helping to elevate Sting into a mega star.
     

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