Perhaps, but right now Jermaine Gresham is making sense to me at #12, Thomas would be fine as every football player has flaws it is their strengths that matter KB.
Wow, most overrated player in the draft? All because he isn't a stud against the run? He's arguably the best FS against the pass in this draft, and you're calling him overrated because he can't defend the run like Eric Berry? Like Padre said, not all players have the same weaknesses in the NFL as they did in college. He will learn to get better in the NFL. He won't be a stud, but good enough.
He's overrated because people think he's worth the 12th pick when he is clearly a one dimensional player who should never go that high.
Kind of like Ro McClain maybe? I know there are more than a few people who question his ability to stay on the field in passing situations. And isnt one of the big selling points that "hes got the intangibles"? Personally Im with Padre all the way - this pick is gonna be offense. Bryant, Spiller or Gresham. Jimmy Graham is a guy I really like (not at 12!) but dont think he will be available in round 3, and I dont know if we have a late enough pick in round 2. Twelve may be a bit high for Gresham, but I think if we want that playmaking TE, its going to be him.
Well, I thought about all 3, and the only one I couldn't nitpick was Gresham. -Tuna devalues runningbacks -Dez B has red flags including a potential holdout Literally, that leaves J Gresham and Mike Iupati as the last two "best' players on offense that will be there at #12. And Iupati is a stretch at #12..that leaves Gresham, the largest Receiving Te in the draft who would carry that high of a grade.
I dont believe we'll take thomas at 12... We need strength, size..I still have Graham, Mcclain and Dez as our top choices.
First I did not say he was not a liability in the run game....I had not watched with enough depth to say one way or the other how he gets it done, I could only offer what I had seen and the depth of my viewing is not what some of you can offer .... but ... we were discussing when someone locks on to him...which is not often, and I had not noticed him being locked out in the run game other than forcing the corner...you are once again misrepresenting something someone said. KB...I did not respond last night because I wanted to pull out some DVD's and watch because I considered you may be right...again, I do not watch with the breadth that some of you do...when I watch it is for depth on a prospect and not breadth of the group.........so last night after being forced to watch a really bad movie I got some late night Earl Thomas viewing in....... First it is not very often that people lock on to Thomas. He is a range type player and constantly moving at the snap and covers a lot of ground....his recognition skills IMHO are excellent and he closes fast, takes great angles and tackles well enough....he is a solid man up guy and has fluid hips and rotation...he just does not have people lock on to him very often...now there were the plays where he was isolated (Bama did a great job of this IMO) and he is pretty easily sealed off the corner and does not force the action I will give you that.... The other "concern" I have is he seems to have a slight bit of Taylor Mays in him...which at corner in the Big 12 is not the huge of deal...playing vertical safety in the NFL...big concern that might be amplified....I see him get a bit out of control at times and whiff or overrun a tackle or go high and have guys bounce off, or go high and almost get himself decapitated ...... I would also be concerned about his size if you were to constantly put him in the box but the guy is just 21 still growing it looks like and built pretty well so I would not be concerned unless you put him in the box and no one is going to do that consistently.....so that is just some of what I saw... We can agree to disagree here and we agree on some things but IMHO Earl Thomas is not a "liability" in the run game (he is surely not a "great" tackler and his range makes up for his liabilities as a tackler IMHO) and he surely does not get locked onto other than when isolated on the corner, which is not what he will be doing as a safety or rolled up as a slot corner.......... is he an in the box Gibril/Yerimiah safety...nope, but he is a rangy type ball safety that has a very good amount of plays on the ball including forced fumbles....is he Eric Berry...not in my opinion...but he is not Matt O'hanlon either........I have now looked closer...I just do not see what you see....but we do agree that there are some concerning things there, just not the same concerns.... We do agree on one thing though...after watching closer ...I personally do not think he is worth 12 ........maybe a 20 or so.........
The Alabama game was the enligthening game. Alabama was the first physical offense Texas played, and they exposed Earl Thomas's lack of ability in defending the run. In Big 12 competition, Thomas faced a lot of spread teams, and even then, I think he showed that he wasn't a force in the run. The more I watch him, the more I think that he will ultimately be little more than a slot corner in the NFL. I just do not see him as an everydown safety. The more I watch Chad Jones, the more I think he's the 2nd best safety in this draft. He's got great range, but sometimes he is a little late coming over the top when playing a deep centerfield position. He's got very good instincts though. He's got the size and the physical play to play in the box. He is also very good at reading over the middle passes. He will separate the ball from the receiver with his hits. He's much more in control than Taylor Mays as well.
I think a solid case can be made for any of these in place of FS @ #12 (but FA will tell the real story for #12) 13. San Francisco 49ers Trent Williams, OT, Oklahoma The Niners need a tackle to play opposite Joe Staley if they want to keep pounding Frank Gore and protect Alex Smith. After drafting a guy like Williams, they can figure out who is left and right. 14. Seattle Seahawks C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson This draft's version of the Titans' Chris Johnson. Pete Carroll always had a matchup back like Reggie Bush at USC, and Spiller could touch the ball 20 times a game as a rookie when you factor in his return skills. 15. New York Giants Sergio Kindle, LB, Texas The Giants need linebacker help in the worst way, and Kindle can do it all. If he is gone at this point in the draft, they could turn to Sean Weatherspoon. 16. Tennessee Titans Derrick Morgan, DE, Georgia Tech The Titans always seem to build around defense, and without Kyle Vanden Bosch or Jevon Kearse Tennessee will like Morgan's production in 2009 when he had 12.5 sacks, 18.5 tackles for loss and two forced fumbles. 22. New England Patriots Brandon Graham, LB, Michigan The Patriots need a pass rush, and they love smart outside linebacker candidates for their 3-4 defense. Belichick likes to jump into a 4-3 look occasionally, and Graham can do that as well. Graham had 29.5 sacks and 56 tackles for loss at Michigan.
id like to hear an arguement for that guy...i cant fathom this guy being a first round player.. i see him as a 2nd round talent at the earliest. picking him at 12 would be a HUGE mistake..
With Kindle, you have a player that has the strength and athleticism to be an impact player. The question about him is his ability to change direction. He is a tightly wound player muscle wise, and he struggles to redirect himself quickly. As a pass rusher, he lacks secondary moves. He's a speed rusher guy who cannot counter when the outside lane is taken at this time. That stiffness will make him a liability in coverage, IMO. However, the talent base is there, and someone will think they can make him more flexibile and teach him to change directions quicker. If you compare him to Brandon Graham, for instance, you will see a player in Graham who may not have the explosive quickness off the ball that Kindle has or the explosion from the lower body when attacking a blocker that Kindle has. However, you will see a guy who can rush the passer in a vareity of ways. You will see a player that knows how to use his hands to get off blocks. You will see a player that is more flexible and is able to run the arc as well as counter with an inside move to get to the quarterback.
Kindle reminds me of a bootleg version of Vernon Gholston....a one deminsional player that has some skill sets that are good, but not great enough to make up for his weaknesses that will be exposed in every type of way at the next level.
Same was said about Orakpo last year, it turned out to be nonsense KB. Though I do not care for Kindle, dude just does not have "it" there is nothing about his game that suggests "big time' to me, Orakpo's game did.. Flexible is a good way not to describe Kindle, but with Graham that is accurate, and I'd toss in "Violently explosive" into the mix, no namby pamby 205pd Rb will block B Graham..can't say that about Kindle. My dislike of Odrick stems from my view that he is like a good Middle Weight trying to fight in the Heavyweight division..
thats my hole thing. he has no pass rushing moves, isnt really explosive an just doesnt impress me all around...for the #44 pick that woul be ridiuclous IMO. much less #12
If you feel that way, you'll be glad when the Pats pick him at 44. We have pick 43 just in a sarcastic FYI...I knew what you meant, and I agree. Kindle isn't good enough to be picked with our first pick. Given the fickle nature of taking college DE's and asking them to make a conversion to 3-4 OLB'er, I might be in favor of not taking one in the first at all and addressing another position if a player matches the value.
I just wanted to point out what Earl Thomas does do very well, in fact he is my top 5 players coming out this year in doing this: Earl Thomas has NFL reactions, even in the national title game, one filled with draft prospects, E Thomas was the fastest player on the field, the only player who played "faster" was Ingram. When rooks come to the NFL one of the first things that is said of them is "he has to get used to the gamespeed in the NFL" Thomas imho already plays at that speed while at Texas, 99% of the players around him looked like they were playing in sand.
If Miami passes on Dez Bryant I will ban myself from this forum and the names "Bill Parcells" and "Jeff Ireland" would be dead to me. Dead.
No one coming into the league has NFL speed yet. I watched some more film of Earl Thomas last night. I agree with those that say he has great range and makes plays on the ball. What I have been saying though is that there are other aspects of playing safety that come into play. Two games in particular. Texas vs Nebraska, and Texas vs Alabama. I saw Earl Thomas getting blocked by wide receivers, and I'm not just talking about getting blocked. I'm talking about getting locked onto and getting driven backwards. This is what I'm talking about when I say that he's not a physical force in the running game. He has the body and the game of a cornerback, not a safety.
I don't think that's a huge part of a free safety's game, though. And if you don't think he'll ever get more physical at dealing with those blockers, what if he just learns better ways of using his speed to make sure they never get hold of him? Kareem Jackson is an extremely physical cornerback IMO, and he has a great knack for staying unblocked and trying to make plays in the ground game, but he doesn't do that by letting a guy get locked onto him and then overpowering him like he's in a wrestling competition. He gives a move and makes the blocker miss.
We're not in the days of D. Smith and S. Atwater. The FS is cover position. He's not an in-the-box player. You're overstating his struggles against the run, but more importantly, you're undervaluing a true ball hawk. No one has accused E. Reed as being a great tackler or great against the run. When people discuss Reed and Troy P., some favor Troy because they say he's the more complete Safety. The implications there: Reed is not a complete Safety. And, by your standards, he's not. But, he's one of the 5 best defensive players in the league. You're arguing that you should pass on E. Thomas because he's like Ed Reed. And, to me, that's madness. Before you say that E. Thomas is not E. Reed, none of these players are anyone yet. They're just prospects. But, Mayock is on record as saying that E. Thomas is the best cover FS/ball hawk he's seen in about 10 years.
That is philosophy dependent, IMO. Jeff Ireland and Bill Parcells have already stated how important they feel it is to have defensive backs that are physical and can defend the run. Some may try to use Sean Smith as a counter argument, but I fully believe that they see his body and feel with added strength, he will be a force against the run on the edge. Vontae Davis's physicality is why he was drafted over the better pure cover guy in Darius Butler. I don't believe Miami will go after a safety that is coverage only and is weak against the run.
Having the run defending free safety rather than ball hawk worked out well for us this past season no?
