Completely agree on all points. I think a seam busting tight end opens up the field for our receivers. I keep thinking about Tony Gonzalez's production in KC and how it helped open up the pass game outside the hashes for Eddie Kenneson (sp?), Morton, etc.
i agree with you for three reasons. in Parcells mind receivers are the most overvalued position next to QB However a Tight End who can block and run the seam effectiveky is priceless. We already have a receiving crew equal too if not better than the Giants two Super Bowl squads. What we are missing however is Mark Bavaro two) I think there are a ton of Tight Ends available throughout the draft this year that could help us in the passing game. I dont think it will be Gresham but could see Hernandez, Pitta, Graham, McCoy, Kendricks, Saunders depending on who we get in FA. 3) a TE is a young QBs greatest friend
gronkowski or something right. i think he's going back but if he comes out then definitely very nice prospect
Well, my basic idea is that we poach talent from the positions that are filled with quality prospects for this draft. And, honestly, I want to see how Hartline continues to progress. If he continues at his late season pace, our overall need at WR will have diminished slightly. Not by much, but maybe enough to where the passing game in general improves. We add another body outside and we may have enough to be a pain in the *** to everyone in the league.
With respect to the TE, I think Sparano is right that the reason the TE has opened up more recently is because teams have figured out that Henne likes to throw to the outside, to the receivers...and has the arm to do it. I would not be surprised to see a high caliber TE acquired at some point. Doing that would be the only way I'd be happy with TWO new faces at the WR position instead of THREE. But the first big caliber player to be acquired will IMO be a WR. That's just a logistics thing. Free agency comes before the draft. There aren't really any TEs available this free agency period that catch my eye. There could be some WRs though...and right now it looks like Antonio Bryant is that guy. Bryant could be the first salvo. Then perhaps during the draft we hone in on Jermaine Gresham.
The veteran receiver signing is part of it too. You add one young receiver, one vet and a TE. The passing game should be improved....you just added three bodies and one an experienced player. One thing that should also be mentioned is that our likelihood of spending a middle round pick on a G/C maybe somewhat quelled. Both Berger and Garner have shown that they can play at a higher level than either fill in we had last year.
Bryant had another great game today. He made an unreal 1 handed catch down field with a defender in his face. I was watching the Bucs game next to the Phins. Plus I love the fact that he told Morris that he wants the ball. The light seems to be coming on and his best might yet still be to come. He and Gresham would be awesome. I'd still even make a play for Henry as well.... keep us from having to draft any WRs so we can focus most of the draft on D. Posted via Mobile Device
I'll take a Jason Avant over a Chris Henry right now. Similar players without the potential for headaches, and I fear an overhaul of the WRs group turning into a pairing of two guys with histories of being problem children, being the old shepherds of a group of younger players. Plus Avant played with Chad Henne for two years, caught 120 balls for 1454 yards and 11 TDs. What more could you want? But Bryant needs to end up a Fin one way or another. I loved that whole series of statements by him about wanting the ball more. He said all the right things. What do we do with Fasano? He's a free agent. Do we just let him go? I doubt he could ask for much money. I could certainly deal with a draft and free agency where we bring in like an Antonio Bryant and Jason Avant, then draft a Jermaine Gresham, and some time later in the draft get an underrated diamond in the rough type like a Taylor Price.
Getting Bryant and Avant (who should be viewed as "a rising player" by Ireland) along with a TE who is a real receiving threat could be H-U-G-E. I'm not sure the eagles won't keep Avant, though I'd hope we get a crack at him.
Ditto all that, CK. Would love to see that turn out, and then use a 4th on our Dark horse, Price. Posted via Mobile Device
Owen Daniels tore an ACL if I'm not mistaken. I wonder how much of his success the past two years is a product of him being good or product of being surrounded by Andre Johnson, Kevin Walter (very underrated) and Steve Slaton. If it weren't for him being hurt, I'd be all for it.
He's a very good player. In fact, that Houston offense hasn't been the same since he went down injured. With him in the game they were scoring 25 points a game. They had scored about 27 a game over a seven game stretch after they started the season flat against the Jets. Without him they've scored 17, 17, 27 and 18. That's a big difference. Owen Daniels is for real he's just not going to make it out of Houston. It's not that hard to keep a TE like him and it's a no-brainer.
I'm not quite ready to sign off on the 'Antonio Bryant is our offensive saviour' project just yet. I absolutely would sign off on Gresham in round 1, but in terms of hands and route running, I'm also not sure about signing off on Avant over Camarillo.
Which is precisely why you bring in THREE new faces instead of one. Which is precisely why you bring them all to camp and keep the best players.
I sure as hell would take Antonio Bryant. Draft Benn in Round 2 and start Benn and Bryant with Bess in the slot...
personally, if we grab Bryant I'd like to make the other receiver a playmaker at the slot. I'm not looking to replace Hart at the #2. Yay, nay?? I'd be happy with Bryant and Price.... with a stud TE. Posted via Mobile Device
Honestly, I think a lot of what we do with regards to the wide receiver position will be determined by what Brian Hartline does down the stretch. That may sound crazy, but it could lead to us feeling we have a bit more than most would give us credit for in Camarillo, Bess and Hartline. It could lead the FO to use a mid round pick on the position and maybe a veteran. Bryant may be the "it" choice right now, and for good reason, but in all likelihood someone gets released this offseason. The reason? The NFL is looking to kill the 100 million revenue sharing pie for the poor teams in the league for next season. In a down economy in cash strapped franchises like Jacksonville, Buffalo etc. teams may be forced to cut veterans in place of rookies and young players who are cheap. As such, there may a few more veteran players on the street, and that may be based on salary. Wide out have a good salary number nowadays, so they may feel the pinch over a linebacker for instance. I don't how true that may be, but it is something to consider.
Do these teams really have anyone we would be interested in though? But its definitely shaping up like FA will dictate our draft direction pretty heavily though. Our team has been shaping up with holes at nearly spot, to having some spots nailed down, but still needing some other spots badly. I would like to come out of FA with 1-2 starters and then some depth/potential players, and then use the draft to finish up and add some playmakers early and take some shots deep.
With all the respect in the world to Hooshoops who I'm sure is a good guy, I'm not sure I'm buying that the MI5 uber cautious Jeff Ireland is going to giving anything away talking about prospects in positions of need and if he is, then it's nothing based in fact. Certainly not doubting Hooshoops as I'm certain that chat took place. Just not sure Jeff would be so honest without some sort of agenda/steer/smoke machine.
Seeing Spikes take on and thoroughly school Andre Smith last year marks his versatility down as very strong and like you say, having both in at ILB would be dreamy. Personally I'm a McClain guy the way you're a Spiker, but I'd be happy with either.
That's a great call right there. Quite apart from the on field skill set of going backwards and forwards very well, the kid has everything in his locker OFF the field that Jeff Ireland desires.
This can be filed under hindsite being 20/20, but I'll say it anyway: I'm getting more pissed as every week goes by that we didn't draft Louis Murphy. Hartline has promise and Turner- who knows- but neither receiver, imo, has the upside of Murphy. My recollection of Murphy was of a guy who had all the tools, but suspect hands and you worried if he could be counted on regularly. But seeing him recently, his break off the line, his speed, quickness, explosion, nearly perfect size- our rookie WRs can't come close to this guy. And if I recall correctly he was taken with our original 4th rd pick, so Hartline and Turner were taken ahead of him. How clutch was Murphy last Sunday against the Steelers? And btw, good for Oakland benching that dookie Russell and going with Gradkowski. About time. That's my Louis Murphy ***** and moan of the day. I don't care if it's FA, 1st rd or 5th rd- whatever- a #1 WR is not a want, it's a need. I still think that the FO should consider outsourcing a consultant if that's what it takes to choose the right guy. Not to be too hard on the FO, but the Wilford signing and the Turner situation imo leave room for doubt as to their prowess in evaluating Wrs.
That's not a bad choice, and you weren't alone in wanting him. But one caveat - how would he fare here given that he has 9 drops? Ted Ginn the poster boy for fan hatred has 8. I'm not saying you're wrong in that Murphy is playing better, but would we the fans here be as forgiving as in Oakland given that stat? Our hopes were much higher than theirs entering the season, so our patience and overall affect on Murphy may have resulted in a different outcome. Also, is he that much better than Hartline? His numbers are better, but not a ridiculous amount. It may be a tough call.....I do like Hartline and what he does bring to the offense. But we could certainly use both Hartline and Murphy. That would be a nice young nucleus. http://www.nfl.com/players/brianhartline/careerstats?id=HAR725593 http://www.nfl.com/players/louismurphy/profile?id=MUR517212 Murphy has in yardage, and he has 5 plays of 20+ and 2 of 40+ whilst Hartline has 3 and 1 respectively.
Good points, and as I mentioned Murphy had that reputation coming out. But Murphy provides speed and explosion that Hartline and Turner will never have. As to Ginn, it's not just the drops. It's that he plays like a weenie and I've never in my life seen an NFL WR look that bad while failing to catch the ball. And on top of that Ginn is in his third year, making matters worse. Time will tell on Murphy. Between him and Schillens the Raiders don't even need DHB. Straight line speed with very questionable hands- God bless AL Davis, he needs it come draft day.
With all fairness to our FO. I doubt they had any idea Ginn was going to regress like he has. Many of us, myself included, thought Ted was primed for a break out 1000 yard season, nullifying the need for a burner with questionable hands. What we were unsure of was if Cam would be healthy and who we'd have as a dependable possession WR. IMO Hart has answered that bell, and I'm glad we have him over Murphy. So the only thing lacking was a big, physical, prominent redzone threat who can move the chains. Enter Turner.... or try to enter Turner. LOL I don't disagree with their philosophy, but I do disagree with how they went about it. I still feel we shouldve addressed CB in FA with quality young vets who couldve allowed us to compete more this season while freeing up 2 high picks to be used on other needs.... like Nicks or Britt in the 1st instead of Turner in the 3rd. (and our secondary and WRs would've been better from day one while also having 2b and 3 to use on a pass rusher, MLB, TE, or NT..... and right now we'd be looking at less holes to fill in the 2010 draft)
I think that might be a bit paranoid. I don't think Jeff has much reason to lie to some common fan he meets at a bar. He didn't give away draft strategy, he just made a few comments about players. The easiest possibility is the most likely. He said Golden Tate doesn't always catch the ball, not because he assumed that hooshoops was some clandestine agent ready to put his draft opinion on a megaphone all across the internet and media and other teams, but because Golden Tate doesn't always catch the ball. He said he likes Brandon Spikes' physicality when it comes a debate about Spikes versus McClain, not because he needs to try and throw this random guy in a Dolphins jersey off in case he works for another team and will try and use the information to beat the Dolphins to the punch, but because he likes Brandon Spikes' physicality. Hooshoops had a picture of himself with Ireland to prove the conversation happened.
Interesting points, but I would guess that double talk and lying about the draft are part and parcell of anyone working for Parcells, no matter who they speak with. No pun intended.
It would be like how we brought in Merling and Langford, Parmele and Hilliard, Donald Thomas and Shawn Murphy, Sean Smith and Vontae Davis. If you only sign Bryant and don't draft a wideout you're putting all your eggs in one basket. Of course this is all based on the assumption we trade Ginn.
Oops. Sorry about that. I need to read more carefully. FWIW I'm not as high on Price as ckparrothead. If we actually did sign Bryant I don't see Price beating him out for the starting gig. However I believe Arrelious Benn, Golden Tate, Brandon LaFell, Mardy Gilyard, Jeremy Williams, Danario Alexander, Austin Pettis, or Dezmon Briscoe would give Bryant a run for his money. At the very least one of them has the potential to step up if Bryant got injured again. However I'm getting ahead of myself. Maybe I should wait and see if we actually sign Antonio Bryant in the first place.
Good point about Ginn's regression. Plus we can't forget about Patrick Turner. He will get another offseason and training camp to prove and improve himself. Also I'd rather have Vontae Davis and Sean Smith than any free agent we could have signed.
I have to agree with Boomer on this one. "He doesn't always catch the ball" and "Spikes is physical" may very well be Ireland's pat answer in response to any questions regarding those players. For all we know Ireland might actually believe that Tate has great hands (which he does) and that McClain is every bit as physical as Spikes (which he is).
