Henne was 7-6 in 2009. Unless you want to pin the losses to Atlanta, Indy & San Diego on him as well. He was 7-8 in 2010, unless you want to pin the Chicago loss on him as well. Minor details, I know, but I thought I'd point out that he didn't play in 4 of those games.
That seam pattern player is probably stuck in the backfield helping out on protection, because Chad Henne has audibled him in. Notice there's two men in the backfield with Henne. It appears the tailback is set to run out on a pattern, but given where the play is and his only now just leaking out, I'd say that means he was also audibled in for protection but found he had nobody to protect and so he's engaging a delayed route. I know it's easy to curse Dan Henning for these things, but he only sets the table. He gave his QB the freedom to audible the Tight Ends or Running Backs in for protection, and Chad Henne abused it to the detriment of the offense. There is clear evidence of this. Chad Henne kept 3.5 extra men in for protection for every 1 extra rusher. That ratio is far, far, far and away above any other QB/Offense in the league. The next highest ratio was 2.0x, that I found. And I'd say average was more like 1.5-1.7x.
Based on what? Based on the fact that he lost like 20 lbs this off season and is trying to get faster? If he lost 20 lbs then he's lighter than he was when he came out of college, and I'm willing to bet his aim is to be FASTER than he was at the Combine. You have no reason to say he didn't have the same 4.52 speed this year that he had at 225 lbs at the Combine. Hey why let facts get in the way of a good opinion though.
So then you only trust other peoples' eyes to the extent that the agree with your own? Can that really be said to be "trusting" other peoples' eyes at all?
I think if we had picked Ryan that he would have looked very similar to what Henne did last year. All the same people would be on here saying we missed on another QB.
Just making the point that this year Bill Polian said that if you talk to anyone in the football business that REALLY knows what they're talking about, they know that Ben Roethlisberger is in the same elite category with other QBs that get talked about in that elite category (believe he was referencing his own Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady, probably Drew Brees, maybe Aaron Rodgers), and has been for a long time. Those are Bill Polian's words. That's why I find it strange that you would say that it's laughable to think that Ben Roethlisberger had a lot to do with those championships. He did.
Sam Bradford was a true rookie and his receiving unit was far, far, far, far and away worse than Miami's. Bad argument. I will hand you that if Sam Bradford has the same QB rating and doesn't lead his team to any more wins in 2011 or 2012, even as his surrounding cast improves greatly, then he'd be in the same boat as our own 4th year Chad Henne.
Yeah, he was no slam dunk. He was a personal slam dunk for me, but then so was Aaron Rodgers. I considered Rivers to be a slam dunk, and called him the #1 talent in the Draft after the Senior Bowl. But, I was in the minority, especially that early. At that time most considered him a 2nd round pick trying to crack into the 1st round, and there was an active Phil Rivers vs. J.P. Losman debate amongst fans and media. Hell, do you recall Drew Boylhart saying he should move to Tight End? Then later when Matt Jones came out, saying that Matt Jones and Phil Rivers are essentially the same player? Greg Cosell admits he was totally wrong about Rivers too, which means he didn't have a high opinion of him either. He said he just couldn't get beyond the release, which was short-sighted on his part. But MrClean may have been referring to personal slam dunks, while you might be thinking of consensus slam dunks. You could even argue that Peyton Manning wasn't a consensus slam dunk, given the active "Ryan Leaf is better" group out there. Carson Palmer and Eli Manning were consensus slam dunks, as was Michael Vick. Sam Bradford wasn't even a consensus slam dunk, more like consensus #1 QB in the Draft, but there were a lot of people nervous about that shoulder. I guess purely on talent he was a consensus slam dunk. I liked Matt Ryan a lot, and called him out as the #1 QB in the Draft about a few weeks into the college season. But, I didn't think of him like a Phil Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Carson Palmer, Sam Bradford or Andrew Luck. That was my bad though. He absolutely deserved to be up there with those guys.
Not a fair statement. They wanted Locker. They wanted Gabbert. They wanted Ponder. And those guys were all gone by the 15th pick. The rest is obvious- they would have drafted Mallett in the 2nd round instead of Daniel Thomas if they wanted him. They didn't- nor did any other team until the 74th pick of the draft.
Why did they put out the word that they were trying to trade up for Mallett in the 3rd? And I'm tired of this attitude that the Dolphins can't have a guy simply because he didn't fall that far. They didn't wait to get Daniel Thomas. The Ravens didn't wait to try and pick up Joe Flacco. The Jets didn't wait to try and pick up Mark Sanchez. Football doesn't reward the foolish, but it also doesn't reward the passive.
Their cheap and conservative approach certainly wouldn't have allowed them to move up in the first round to ensure they got one of those guys. But that's often easier said then done so who knows. But.... I think it's been made pretty clear in four drafts that they value linemen over the QB position. In their very first draft rebuilding a team they waited until almost the third round to take a QB. They took two linemen first. If that doesn't scream, 'we don't believe QB is the most important position on the team' I don't know what does outside of Jeff Ireland actually saying it. This isn't a story of just one draft, it's about four drafts.
It would have been tough to trade for Gabbert with no #2 this year. As I've stated before I was a bit surprised as to how hot they were for Locker, but in hindsite it makes more sense. As to Ponder, I was all for taking him at #15, but do you trade up from #15 to take Ponder? That would be a tough one. As to Mallett- they simply didn't want him. All of their feigned interest was an attempt to get another team to draft him higher and hopefully have a QB that they actually valued, or any other player that they valued for that matter, drop to them in the process.
Well said. This staff has made it clear that they view the quarterback position as just one of the many positions on the team. A priority position, but one among a number of other priority positions. It's a very old school way of thinking in the midst of a new school game where rule changes and spread concepts have made their way of thinking obsolete.
Sure, and that's why they were hot for Locker, Gabbert and Ponder, any of which they would have taken gladly at #15 not only in my opinion, but also from the local buzz down here in south Florida and what hit the news after the draft. They wanted all three, because there was a need there, a need at the most important position on the field. Minnesota was the one team that I thought might c-block the Dolphins in terms of Ponder. I think that they made a great choice. When all three were gone, the obvious occured: they didn't draft a QB because there wasn't one left who they thought provided value at the #15 slot and as per the drafting of all the other teams in the league they were, at least initially, proven correct.
1. Tough to trade up but certainly not impossible. 2. The hots for Locker only makes sense to me in hindsight based on who ended up drafting him and why. The Titans ended up drafting him because Chris Palmer banged the table for him. 3. I don't know how you can possibly say "they simply didn't want him" with Mallett, when after the Draft people inside the building were telling reporters they liked him and think he'll be a good QB and tried to trade up into the 3rd for him. Nobody, nobody at all, has yet to explain a valid, logical reason for the team to lie about that. Saying that they wanted him but didn't get him doesn't make them look good. It makes them look bad. If they think the guy is going to be a good QB and they passed on him in the late 2nd for Daniel Thomas, then that makes them look like idiots. If they tried to move up for him and couldn't make it happen, that makes them look impotent. And the other possibility is that they're lying, and the only reason they would be lying would be that they're scared Ryan Mallett WILL pan out, in which case see the first two criticisms. I think the reality is the simplest possibility. They were just being honest. They prioritized the RB position as a "must" and the QB position as a "want" and so they couldn't take a QB until they had a RB, tried to trade up and get the QB anyway, and failed. That sounds exactly like them. To a T.
It's a story about evaluation. Out of the past four drafts there really haven't been many QBs that were inarguably franchise guys. People here often point to Ryan, but IMO he's not much of an upgrade over Henne. Regardless of what you believe, there were many "experts" who came to a similar conclusion before that draft. Deciding that not prioritizing the QB position was the reason why they passed is an assumption you're jumping to b/c it fits your argument.
First off, you have absolutely no idea if they would have taken any of those guys above Mike Pouncey. No idea at all. Second, you're posturing with words, "hot for". Are there reports that they liked Jake Locker and Christian Ponder (never heard Blaine Gabbert, and I'm as connected or more than anyone here)? Sure. I'm sure there are a lot of guys they like. The proof is in the actions. And after the Draft, Jeff Ireland flat out said that we liked some quarterbacks but didn't feel the need to manipulate the Draft board (i.e. trade or reach), in order to get one. So, argue what you want, you have it straight from the horse's mouth. The quarterback position was just not a high priority.
As to your #3, you're kidding, right? The NFL draft is notorious for the spreading of misinformation. The rest of the paragraph looks like an excercise in denial and frustration to me. The Dolphins didn't want Ryan Mallett, at least not all that much. The rest of the league didn't want him until the 74th pick. At some point you're going to have to digest that.
Strong words. In the coming years as Chad Henne goes down in flames and Matt Ryan takes his place among the elite quarterbacks in this league, the obviousness of your being wrong will grow every year. It should be obvious already.
I disagree with not wanting to reach meaning that you don't prioritize the position. A "reach" taking a player you don't feel is worth a certain draft position. I see that as good policy. If you reach for players then most of the time you end up with bad picks.
I notice you're not distinguishing between before and after the Draft. After the Draft, you need a reason to lie. Teams don't lie "just because". That's a silly argument. What you're actually saying is you can't argue against the points that I raise and so you're just stepping away and saying..."you, you...you, you're clearly wrong!"
Ryan is in a great situation and he still hasn't shown the ability to carry his team. If you look at the games where his running game struggles his production is eerily similar to Henne's. Ryan won't be listed among the elite QBs unless he demonstrates that ability to carry his team.
This thread is straight comedy. Trying to judge who's putting the correct spin on what our FO is saying to the media? Really? Might as well start the ink-block tests now.
Yes I'm sure the Dolphins banged away with their first four picks in the Draft the exact four positions that happened to be big needs out of pure coincidence. What luck! The highest player on our draft board just happened to be at Center, Running Back, Flanker and Move Tight End...back to back to back to back! Unbelievable! I'm sure there was no position targeting involved there.
Oh I'm fully willing to strap in and watch you be tragically wrong for the next five years or so. Don't worry about that. Nervous? Or are you going to start pulling out the "he wouldn't have been the same quarterback in Miami" stuff out of pure stubbornness, a way of conveniently (by means of an unprovable claim) trying to insist you were not wrong when everyone knows you were.
That's funny coming from a guy who thought that he knew what was going on with the Dolphins as to how highly they valued Mallet and obviously didn't have a clue. As to how they actually felt: "Jacksonville looked at who was dropping in Thursday's NFL draft and got excited. Even with the 13th-rated quarterback in the league last year, it traded up to get Missouri's Blaine Gabbert with 10th pick overall. The Dolphins didn't do that. And maybe they're right. Maybe Gabbert isn't Mr. Right. A lot of other teams needing quarterbacks passed on him without even having to trade up. Arizona. Cleveland. San Francisco. Washington. But another first round passed Thursday and the Dolphins didn't draft a quarterback again. They loved University of Washington quarterback Jake Locker. But Tennessee got him at the eighth overall pick. They liked Florida State quarterback Christian Ponder. But Minnesota took him with the 12th pick." http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...-jeff-ireland-henne-missouri-s-blaine-gabbert
The only thing funny is you saying that, when I said all along that I don't know how they feel about Mallett, and I could only speculate based on scant bits of evidence. Nice attempt at a cheap shot though. Thank you. Thank you for actually citing a source that shows that my account of things was correct and yours was wrong. I appreciate that.
When you wake up and start accepting reality, let me know. It was pretty simple: the three Quarterbacks that the Dolphins actually valued were all gone by the 15th pick. They didn't reach for another one, as they shouldn't have. No one that I'm aware of knows for sure what the Dolphins would have done at #15 if any combination of Gabbert, Locker or Ponder were there, so I'll clarify: it is my strong suspicion that if any one of those three had been available at #15, then the Dolphins would have taken him. Your love affair with Mallett backfired. That picture which you post, if altered, would be an appropriate metaphor; just have your face sumperimposed over the girl's with your tongue sticking out and Mallett's butt put in place of the electronic device. That would be a pretty clear reflection of the last few months of your life as it pertains to the draft. Stop acting like a jilted lover already- Mallett was overrated by a lot of amateurs outside of NFL circles, and the draft proved that. Definitively.
It doesn't have to be every position. We're just talking about QBs. Last year I didn't think any of the QBs in the draft were worth trading up for. When we thought Luck would come out, I was advocating trading our whole draft for him. So, clearly I prioritized the QB position for that QB. I don't find it difficult to believe that they wanted a QB, but didn't see anybody worth trading up for. In 2010, the first round QBs were Bradford and Tebow. Bradford was out of reach and Tebow drew mixed opinions. It's not difficult to believe that they didn't see Tebow as worth a first round selection. In 2009, Freeman is the only guy they had a shot at although they still would have had to trade up from #25. I never evaluated him before the draft, but from what I can tell he was considered a project who also drew mixed opinions. It's not difficult to believe they reasonably didn't see him as worth trading up for. In 2008, they could have taken Ryan. I stated before the draft that I would have taken Long b/c I saw him as more of a sure thing. I liked Ryan, but didn't think he was a guy who would carry a team. So far he's been exactly that. You're trying to act like the only way they wouldn't have drafted a first round QB during the last four years was if they didn't prioritize the position. I see other reasons for the exact same outcome to occur.
Why would I be worried? If Ryan ever becomes that franchise guy I'll say I was wrong. I've been married a couple of times so I have plenty of practice. But if he continues to be the same guy who plays well, but doesn't carry his team when they struggle in other areas then I'll say that as well.
so childish.. What part don't you understand..The man had two offseason hip surgeries that completely cut out his offseason training, and admittedly said that he was heavier and didn't have his speed nor explosiveness that he's accustom to.
I'll make myself clear, if you or anyone else doesn't agree with the weaknesses that I listed, than I do not trust your eye, I say that because they are obvious, and had much to do with the outcomes of games.. Poor interior line play.. Below average speed as a unit.. Putrid special teams play.. Poor run game.. Nothing in terms of production from the 2nd tight end position.. Downplaying those weaknesses is only making you look like your onesided and not open.
